Manhattan Buckeye;1136154 wrote:"Soccer would lose to NBA like 150-20 in a 48 minute game."

This is simply ridiculous. A soccer team isn't scoring a single point. Many very good HS teams wouldn't score without a lucky 3 pointer or half court heave. You actually think people that never picked up a basketball in their lives would score 20 against an NBA team?

And I'm the troll.

LOL, didnt realize we were picking player who had no clue how to play basketball. Leo Messi is the best player in the world. Very good friends with Kobe Bryant. He scored 3 points in a 1 on 1 game versus Bryant 2 years ago (lost 21-3). They arent scoring a ton. But they arent retards. They could score a few and probably draw some fouls.

By the same token, Bryant tried to play Messi 1-1 (admittedly, way different than a real match) and didnt touch the ball for 13 and a half minutes. Messi just dribbled around him in circles and made him fall 6 different times. It was actually really entertaining TV. Ill see if I can find it. It was on the Barca website, but like I said, 2 years ago.

Laley23;1136179 wrote:LOL, didnt realize we were picking player who had no clue how to play basketball. Leo Messi is the best player in the world. Very good friends with Kobe Bryant. He scored 3 points in a 1 on 1 game versus Bryant 2 years ago (lost 21-0). They arent scoring a ton. But they arent retards. They could score a few and probably draw some fouls.

By the same token, Bryant tried to play Messi 1-1 (admittedly, way different than a real match) and didnt touch the ball for 13 and a half minutes. Messi just dribbled around him in circles and made him fall 6 different times. It was actually really entertaining TV. Ill see if I can find it. It was on the Barca website, but like I said, 2 years ago.

I remember seeing that. Kobe wasn't too bad at handling the ball and juggling. I've also seen Steve Nash with the ball, he could hold his own.

And either way, the point stand.

50-0 in soccer
200-0 in baseketball.

Neither is competitive, disruptive, entertaining, etc. It is an ass beating through and through. So just stfu.

Automatik;1136187 wrote:I remember seeing that. Kobe wasn't too bad and handling he ball and juggling. I've also seen Steve Nash with the ball, he could hold his own.

Yeah, Kobe and Nash are actually very good players. But they dont touch the ball versus the worlds best. Its just a ridiculosu statement that anyone who isnt a pro could "disrupt" these guys. You gotta touch the ball first, and they would never touch the ball.

" Very good friends with Kobe Bryant. He scored 3 points in a 1 on 1 game versus Bryant 2 years ago (lost 21-0). They arent scoring a ton. But they arent retards. They could score a few and probably draw some fouls."

Fair enough, but in any one on one situation, someone can luck into fall-away three pointer or some other circus shot. In a 5 on 5 game against an NBA team, that isn't going to happen. Giving up probably 6 inches or more per position and athleticism on top of that, it would be a miracle to even get an open look. The NBA team wouldn't even need to foul, a 6'2" athletic guy isn't shooting over a 6'9" athletic guy, likewise on defense the 6'2" guy isn't stopping the 6'9" guy.

Manhattan Buckeye;1136203 wrote:" Very good friends with Kobe Bryant. He scored 3 points in a 1 on 1 game versus Bryant 2 years ago (lost 21-0). They arent scoring a ton. But they arent retards. They could score a few and probably draw some fouls."

Fair enough, but in any one on one situation, someone can luck into fall-away three pointer or some other circus shot. In a 5 on 5 game against an NBA team, that isn't going to happen. Giving up probably 6 inches or more per position and athleticism on top of that, it would be a miracle to even get an open look. The NBA team wouldn't even need to foul, a 6'2" athletic guy isn't shooting over a 6'9" athletic guy, likewise on defense the 6'2" guy isn't stopping the 6'9" guy.

Messi is 5'5 you nut. Put Jan Koller (6'9) Peter Crouch (6'6) and a few goalies together and you've got some athletic bball players

Manhattan Buckeye;1136203 wrote: Fair enough, but in any one on one situation, someone can luck into fall-away three pointer or some other circus shot. In a 5 on 5 game against an NBA team, that isn't going to happen. Giving up probably 6 inches or more per position and athleticism on top of that, it would be a miracle to even get an open look. The NBA team wouldn't even need to foul, a 6'2" athletic guy isn't shooting over a 6'9" athletic guy, likewise on defense the 6'2" guy isn't stopping the 6'9" guy.

I agree with this. But I also wasnt saying they would be competitive or disruptive. My 20 points was probably way to high. But even so, I was trying to make the point its a lot easier to luck into a basket in basketball than a goal in soccer.

Your initial argument that you had just kicked the ball away etc from an all state soccer player just doesnt hold up. That defense wouldnt do shit versus the best in the world.

Just for comparisons sake, imo, an all state basketball player in the USA is much closer to NBA level than an all state soccer player is to top flight European soccer. There is a reason our all-staters eventually make the NBA, yet we have ONE....ONNNNNNE all state soccer player player in Europe at even a slightly high level. Clint Dempsey, for Fulham, who is like 12th in the EPL.


I dont want to get into personal experiences with you versus your all state soccer player or me versus an all state basketball player (zach hillseland, of St. Johns). I was all state in Ohio for soccer, and he was all state for basketball. Both of us are all district for the opposite sport. I could play on the SJJ basketball team that season, he could play on my #2 ranked soccer team of that year. Its all relative when we are taking personal experience, and not speaking in terms of world class.

Both sets of athletes are so much better at their trade than anyone else outside the sport that it would just be a bloodbath if they crossed over.

ohiobucks1;1136218 wrote:Messi is 5'5 you nut. Put Jan Koller (6'9) Peter Crouch (6'6) and a few goalies together and you've got some athletic bball players

Jaap Stam can be the PG. At 6-3, and psycho, he would be intimidating. Plus, when he fucks up I can yell. FUCKING JAAP! Favorite Line in Fifa '06 with Milan!

ohiobucks1;1136218 wrote:Messi is 5'5 you nut. Put Jan Koller (6'9) Peter Crouch (6'6) and a few goalies together and you've got some athletic bball players

Ok, so the idea that soccer players would score is even more ridiculous. Thank you.

"There is a reason our all-staters eventually make the NBA, yet we have ONE....ONNNNNNE all state soccer player player in Europe at even a slightly high level. Clint Dempsey, for Fulham, who is like 12th in the EPL."

Agreed, $$$$$$$.

How much is Clint making vis a vis Bron Bron?

"But even so, I was trying to make the point its a lot easier to luck into a basket in basketball than a goal in soccer. "

Agree again, I never said scoring.

Manhattan Buckeye;1136227 wrote:"There is a reason our all-staters eventually make the NBA, yet we have ONE....ONNNNNNE all state soccer player player in Europe at even a slightly high level. Clint Dempsey, for Fulham, who is like 12th in the EPL."

Agreed, $$$$$$$.

How much is Clint making vis a vis Bron Bron?

Well, yes money is a big difference. That wasnt my point at all though.

You playing versus an all stater in soccer is no where near playing a high level European.
You playing versus an all stater in bball is a lot closer to an NBA level star.

Manhattan Buckeye;1136231 wrote:"But even so, I was trying to make the point its a lot easier to luck into a basket in basketball than a goal in soccer. "

Agree again, I never said scoring.

No you didnt. But you said be disruptive. Which also wouldnt happen. If the end score is 50-0, it isnt close or disruptive. That was my point.

Laley23;1136232 wrote:Well, yes money is a big difference. That wasnt my point at all though.

You playing versus an all stater in soccer is no where near playing a high level European.
You playing versus an all stater in bball is a lot closer to an NBA level star.

That does make sense, considering in the U.S. athletic people want to play basketball, not soccer. Our "stars" choose basketball.

Take Rajon Rondo (who I mentioned earlier), the guy is 6'1", has a wingspan of a 6'6" person and is faster than the Tasmanian devil. From what I understand he was a HS quarterback at his HS in Louisville, had an ok career (if not shortened) at UK and is being ridiculously good at the NBA level. If the U.S. was a more soccer-centric country, for lack of better words, and Rondo had the support program, how would he fare in the world's top leagues. My guess, he'd be productive if not dominate. I just don't see the vice-versa with the soccer legends. How would Messi fit in, another Mugsy Bogues?

I hope that every commentator starts saying people are "disruptive."

That means if ANY player is "disruptive," then they can play any sport. They can hold their own in any sport. They can be productive in any sport. In the end, being "disruptive" is all that matters in sports.

Actually, I could go without hearing that word in regards to anything athletic for a LONG time after some really terrible arguments from someone in particular on here.

What other sport can you be disruptive? I've explained how it can't happen in basketball. I can easily explain how it can't happen in football, or baseball, or cricket or swimming or track. If you don't like my argument, ignore it or explain the counter argument, until then - sorry, soccer can be disruptive and it isn't a terrible argument.

Manhattan Buckeye;1136309 wrote:What other sport can you be disruptive? I've explained how it can't happen in basketball. I can easily explain how it can't happen in football, or baseball, or cricket or swimming or track. If you don't like my argument, ignore it or explain the counter argument, until then - sorry, soccer can be disruptive and it isn't a terrible argument.

Even so, whats the point. Who plays to be disruptive? You play to win. You arent gonna win doing that, so in the end, who cares?

I can foul you every time down the court. It is disruptive to you running an offense. I can stall and hold the ball for 10 seconds behind the line every possession in basketball and never score. Then throw it up. 12 seconds wasted each possession, and thats being lazy. I could easily hold it for 7, advance past midcourt hold for 4.5, take a dribble and hold for 4.5 more. I am being disruptive, and at the end of the day, I get blown the fuck out. Just like you would in soccer.

Both would be frustrating to play against, but you would win easily both ways. So whats the difference?

I'm sorry I ignored this thread aside from the opening (albeit hilarious video) post.

Manhattan Buckeye;1136309 wrote:What other sport can you be disruptive? I've explained how it can't happen in basketball. I can easily explain how it can't happen in football, or baseball, or cricket or swimming or track. If you don't like my argument, ignore it or explain the counter argument, until then - sorry, soccer can be disruptive and it isn't a terrible argument.

It is a terrible argument!

No one sets out to be "disruptive" in a game. No one says after a game, "Man, I lost but I sure disrupted the other team real good." I will tell my players this fall, "Guys, you did a lot of good disrupting out there even though you didn't come out with the win." Or how about, "Boys, we are the underdogs here, we have a good chance if we just disrupt them."

You don't get it that being "disruptive" proves nothing. It means you can stand in the way. Good job. Many people can stand in the way in basketball or football. That doesn't mean they can do ANYTHING to anyone with skill -- especially at a high level.

You have yet to address the whole Ochostinko case with Sporting KC. Ochostinko was a premier WR for many years in the NFL...he wasn't able to do a thing BUT disrupt his team from scoring because of his lack of skill. I thought athletes would be able to compete in other sports? What about Justin Gatlin? He was one of the world's fastest players but wasn't able to make an NFL team...or their special teams! He surely could "disrupt" enough of the opponents' special teams because he's so fast right? Wrong. He got sent packing just like Stinko. Oh, what about Brock Lesnar? He was an All-American DI wrestler. He is a tremendous athlete. He wasn't able to make an NFL roster as a LB. What's going on? Surely he could "disrupt" enough to make an NFL roster. Heck, I'll even go back a few years to a former US international goalkeeper in Tony Meola, he wasn't even able to make an NFL roster as a punter/place kicker. Surely he was capable of "disrupting" enough in the kicking game to make a roster...nope.

"Disrupt" in ANYTHING other than rec league, intramurals, or biddy leagues means absolutely nothing. Sorry. It is a terrible argument.

"Many people can stand in the way in basketball or football. That doesn't mean they can do ANYTHING to anyone with skill -- especially at a high level."

No they can't, how can you stand in the way in basketball - taking the place of someone who knows how to play? You have to cross the mid court in 10 seconds while legally dribbling or passing the ball. It is timed. In the college and pro ranks there is also a shot clock. You have to do something or give the ball to the other team.

In soccer, I (or with others) keep kicking the ball away - it can be down the field, or out of bounds - the time still goes off the clock.

"I can foul you every time down the court."

Yes, and after 7 times I get a 1 and 1 free throw and after 10 a full two, while after 5 fouls (6 in the NBA) you are disqualified from the game.

You fail to understand that against top flight soccer players, you're not fucking touching the ball to kick it away. And if by chance you did get it to "kick it away" you're just giving up possession to this group of world class soccer players to school your entire fucking team for another goal.

You're not fucking with this.

[video=youtube;CJbuREBHs8U][/video]

Manhattan Buckeye;1136316 wrote:"Many people can stand in the way in basketball or football. That doesn't mean they can do ANYTHING to anyone with skill -- especially at a high level."

No they can't, how can you stand in the way in basketball - taking the place of someone who knows how to play? You have to cross the mid court in 10 seconds while legally dribbling or passing the ball. It is timed. In the college and pro ranks there is also a shot clock. You have to do something or give the ball to the other team.

In soccer, I (or with others) keep kicking the ball away - it can be down the field, or out of bounds - the time still goes off the clock.

There is no shot clock in your rec league, intramural league, many high school leagues. Does that mean you can disrupt then? Yep. So that means you can disrupt anytime. Which means...those participants can disrupt anywhere, in any sport, and however they want. See how stupid that sounds? That's what you are saying.

You won't "keep kicking the ball away." You cannot be on an entire field by yourself for 1-90 minutes and be successful. Put a whole team of yous out there and you still couldn't do it. Guarantee it. As Laley (I think it was him) said, world-class athletes cannot "disrupt" Messi...how can you? Stupid foolishness if you ask me. He's score over 50 goals this season...more than anyone else in the history of the game...and you think any average Joe, NFL player, NBA player, or MLB player can just step on the field and "disrupt" him? You are ridiculous.

I am starting to believe you are not being serious and just arguing for the sake of arguing. Because it really makes no sense to what you are saying.

hoops23;1136319 wrote:You fail to understand that against top flight soccer players, you're not ****ing touching the ball to kick it away. And if by chance you did get it to "kick it away" you're just giving up possession to this group of world class soccer players to school your entire ****ing team for another goal.

No I'm not, I'm only doing it against whatever "flight" soccer players at my athletic level - which I've done. I'm not as fast as the premier guys, and never claimed to be. Where have I even began to state that? I'm not a world class athlete.