RedRider1;1082379 wrote:We've also been blessed with superior athletes to go along with that "swagger."

You can "think" you're the better team all you want...but you have to back it up. We've backed it up to the tune of 3 state basketball titles, a football title, a volleyball title and a track title in the last 20 years. That's not even counting track or wrestling individual titles.

Hiland is the only other area team that can claim 6 state titles (4 in girls hoops, 2 in boys) in that same stretch.

The WCAL has 8 team state titles in the last 20 years.....7 of them in softball.

This is the best post on this subject! Results over time!

RedRider1;1082379 wrote:We've also been blessed with superior athletes to go along with that "swagger."

You can "think" you're the better team all you want...but you have to back it up. We've backed it up to the tune of 3 state basketball titles, a football title, a volleyball title and a track title in the last 20 years. That's not even counting track or wrestling individual titles.

Hiland is the only other area team that can claim 6 state titles (4 in girls hoops, 2 in boys) in that same stretch.

The WCAL has 8 team state titles in the last 20 years.....7 of them in softball.

RR1-
I agree Orrville isn't going WCAL anytime soon and I enjoy reading your blog.


But-
I've always been a numbers guy. The great thing about numbers is all you have to do is change one and the whole picture can change-
Let's take your "last 20 years" and change it to "last 10 years"

now Dalton has double the amount of titles any other school boasts..2 (2006, 2007 softball)

Norwayne has the only boys title in anything..football (2011)

and Orrville (2003 volleyball) finds itself tied with Hillsdale (2010 softball)

using the 10 year numbers, Dalton is the school that has backed it up and Norwayne is tops in Boys titles. The 5 year numbers are even weaker for the Riders. I wonder how the numbers will be 10 years from now.

My point here is, numbers can be misleading and tradition is great but you can't hang your hat on any of it. Success has no memory and winning is done in the present.

Although I get a rise out of the twice yearly Orr/WCAL banter, I'm going to stop until somebody brings it up again in another couple months. I'll let you guys get back to figuring out what to do if you jump the OCC ship.

In the WCAL, your cost would be much lower, and your gates will be higher. If all you Orrvillians don't think that is going to be the determining factor someday soon you are all nuts.

It won't be this time...but unless the great state of Ohio changes how schools are funded...it could very well be next time.

Orrvilles either gonna stay in the OCC or go independent.....

The great barrier to a new conference is everybody is gonna want to be in the geographical center. Look at some of these conference ideas....

New Philly and Barberton in the same conference?........ Thats something like a 50+ mile drive. Barberton isn't going to go for that. Heck, Orrvilles looking to leave the OCC due to fifty mile drives.
Cloverleaf to New Philly?......forget about it.
The schools already in the Akron/Cleveland greater metro area aren't going to all of a sudden decide to sever ties and jump on board with the idea of driving south into BFE on a regular basis.

Cobbling the old AOL back together isn't real attractive either. It couldn't hold together before.......why would it now.

Orrvilles best hope for another conference would be to lobby the Suburban League to expand.....Northwest & Orrville would actually be something close to a fit.
Football would probably be even tougher sledding than it is now in the OCC.

no easy fixes here.

If the magic number of teams in a league is 8, a new league simply isn't going to happen.

After some consideration, BRF kinda likes the idea of us joining the WCAL, along with Triway.

BRF;1082693 wrote:After some consideration, BRF kinda likes the idea of us joining the WCAL, along with Triway.

You have finally lost your mind.

THE4RINGZ;1082702 wrote:You have finally lost your mind.

Not yet, but reps to you just the same.

BRF;1082706 wrote:Not yet, but reps to you just the same.

I'll hit you back when I get to a computer.

How ya been? Long time, no see on the OC.

THE4RINGZ;1082708 wrote:
How ya been? Long time, no see on the OC.

Hangin' in there and just chillin' on the OC stuff. Making a post here and there in an attempt to be "relevant"....ha ha! I can't give you a rep because I have to "spread it around"......and there's nobody I want to do that to......maybe beast, but he's like a dog with a bone about the Orrville vs. WCAL stuff, especially the one good football team they had. He just won't let go on that.

Good to hear. Glad you got some time with The General. (Ironic nickname, really).

And, yes for all those WCAL people wanting Orrville to join their league....be careful what you wish for.

Did someone say Beast?

I never said I wanted the Ryders to join the WCAL.....lol, I said we didn't want them.

I have been having a little fun stirring the pot though.

Good to see ya on here BRF

This rep business is getting on my nerves. Now it says that I've given out too much rep in the last 24 hours.

Blah!

I'm going to ditch the crackberry today and get one of those new I-phones.

On the thread topic: Often, when driving around the county, I think about how fortunate the WCAL is with the travel times. It seems to be a very unique situation.

Wooster and Coach Hass are going to have to come up with a new opening act this season since their first plan, Whitney Houston, has passed away. My thoughts and prayers go out to Coach Hass and his staff as he foregoes this extremely difficult decision.

I will always love you Whitney

THE4RINGZ;1082716 wrote:Good to hear. Glad you got some time with The General. (Ironic nickname, really).

And, yes for all those WCAL people wanting Orrville to join their league....be careful what you wish for.

Most years Orrville would be the team to beat in football...so what's wrong with that? And they would get beat on occasion (more often then they think).
This last season they may have finished as low as 3rd or 4th. Alot of years they are going to be 1st or 2nd. So what! Leagues need a dominate team. It gives everyone else something to aspire to. Parity does not produce greatness, challenge does.

In every other sport the WCAL will give plenty of competition. Orrville will win it's share of BB titles for sure. Everything else will range from once in while (baseball, track) to never (wrestling).

iced earth;1083314 wrote:Most years Orrville would be the team to beat in football...so what's wrong with that? And they would get beat on occasion (more often then they think).
This last season they may have finished as low as 3rd or 4th. Alot of years they are going to be 1st or 2nd. So what! Leagues need a dominate team. It gives everyone else something to aspire to. Parity does not produce greatness, challenge does.

In every other sport the WCAL will give plenty of competition. Orrville will win it's share of BB titles for sure. Everything else will range from once in while (baseball, track) to never (wrestling).

You make a couple of solid points and have given me something to think about.

Iced Earth is wise like confucius.....

Do not tread will ye shall sow....for sewing on a treading place, reapeth "sew"-age (not confucius)

~~~~~BEAST

I am still confused as why you bring up killing Chippewa and Rittman in football, so do the top WCAL teams....

The funny thing is, I don't remember seeing anyone saying they wanted Orrville to join the WCAL.

iced earth;1083314 wrote:Most years Orrville would be the team to beat in football...so what's wrong with that? And they would get beat on occasion (more often then they think).
This last season they may have finished as low as 3rd or 4th. Alot of years they are going to be 1st or 2nd. So what! Leagues need a dominate team. It gives everyone else something to aspire to. Parity does not produce greatness, challenge does.

In every other sport the WCAL will give plenty of competition. Orrville will win it's share of BB titles for sure. Everything else will range from once in while (baseball, track) to never (wrestling).

If challenge produces greatness, then the WCAL teams should want Orrville...and Orrville should stay in the OCC by that same logic.

THE4RINGZ;1083816 wrote:The funny thing is, I don't remember seeing anyone saying they wanted Orrville to join the WCAL.

I'd Love it...bring on Triway as well

Red Rum;1082520 wrote:RR1-
I agree Orrville isn't going WCAL anytime soon and I enjoy reading your blog.


But-
I've always been a numbers guy. The great thing about numbers is all you have to do is change one and the whole picture can change-
Let's take your "last 20 years" and change it to "last 10 years"

now Dalton has double the amount of titles any other school boasts..2 (2006, 2007 softball)

Norwayne has the only boys title in anything..football (2011)

and Orrville (2003 volleyball) finds itself tied with Hillsdale (2010 softball)

using the 10 year numbers, Dalton is the school that has backed it up and Norwayne is tops in Boys titles. The 5 year numbers are even weaker for the Riders. I wonder how the numbers will be 10 years from now.

My point here is, numbers can be misleading and tradition is great but you can't hang your hat on any of it. Success has no memory and winning is done in the present.

Although I get a rise out of the twice yearly Orr/WCAL banter, I'm going to stop until somebody brings it up again in another couple months. I'll let you guys get back to figuring out what to do if you jump the OCC ship.

You're 100% correct...numbers can be looked at from different angles to make different points.

Funny how this subject would have been taboo just 20 years ago....Orrville to the WCAL? No way!!

Now I dont know how serious it's being considered outside of the OC, if at all...but the general consensus here is that it would be a competitive league...and I'm fine with that.

I still say that over the course of time...our success is consistent. Not what it was in the 90's, but still above average. Heck, we've been to the final 4 in football, regionals once in girls basketball, two regionals and the final 2 in boys basketball, and crowned a state champ in wrestling in the last 2 years....that's not too shabby.

I think you are both correct and making excellent points - red rum said it the best I have seen. On the other hand, I don't know if the wcal would even accept them-why change a great thing? Incredibly stable league, short drive times, great rivalries- it just doesn't get any better. I can't see going to 9 teams. However, if triway and orrville approached the league, I think it would be strongly considered as it would keep what is great about the wcal and keep an even number of schools. Maybe even 2 divisions big/small. Think orrville, triway, Chippewa, norwayne, northwestern big and Dalton, rittman, smithville, waynedale, hillsdale small. After saying all that, I think it's very unlikely but it sure would be interesting. Heck add west Holmes and loudonville as well

Any news from anyone in the know?