dwccrew;1003617 wrote:Anybody but Andrew Luck. The way they hyped him this year, I really don't think he was as good as advertised. RGIII would get my vote. Or Ball from Wisky.

He was fine until Oregon, the wheels came off for him there on the national stage. Otherwise he wins easily.

dwccrew;1003617 wrote:Anybody but Andrew Luck. The way they hyped him this year, I really don't think he was as good as advertised. RGIII would get my vote. Or Ball from Wisky.

Luck has Stanford, let me repeat that, Stanford, in the national spotlight for two years with minimal talent. They guy does more at the QB position than anyone in the college game, probably over the last 10 years. He's hasn't been a big stat guy, but that's because he's in a pro-style offense that runs and passes equally.

ytownfootball;1003623 wrote:He was fine until Oregon, the wheels came off for him there on the national stage. Otherwise he wins easily.

That's because he started playing teams with talent.

se-alum;1003626 wrote:Luck has Stanford, let me repeat that, Stanford, in the national spotlight for two years with minimal talent. They guy does more at the QB position than anyone in the college game, probably over the last 10 years. He's hasn't been a big stat guy, but that's because he's in a pro-style offense that runs and passes equally.

I'd attribute Stanford, and Luck's, success to Harbaugh. Luck is a good QB, I am not saying that he isn't. However, he is not nearly as great as people have hyped him to be.

se-alum;1003626 wrote:They guy does more at the QB position than anyone in the college game, probably over the last 10 years..

Exactly. People who say he hasn't been as good as advertised only see highlights or look at stats. They don't realize that he literally runs the Stanford offense, the same way Peyton Manning ran the Colts offense.

I don't think he's the Heisman winner because I think that should be based more on on-field numbers, but he's still far and away the best NFL prospect and completely deserving of the hype.

ccrunner609;1003620 wrote:Tobias you and I agree on something for once. He is by far the best player at his position in the country. Without a doubt. Stanford lost their coach, 1/2 their team and still won. Without him this year they would be 3-9. Bama would still be where they are, Wisky would prolly be 9-3.

Stanford played a schedule that was laughably weak. They'd have won a ton of games without him. But yea, I get what you're saying.

SportsAndLady;1003616 wrote:Ill be a good sport..just how long is this bet for anyway lol

Ummm I think the end of the spring game. Better hunker down.

like_that;1000352 wrote:Mathieu had the most standout season out of all the players mentioned imo.

They might as well change the Heisman to the best offensive player award.

Correcto mungo. And Luck played a very easy schedule. When he played good teams, he didnt do to well. Most good QB's could do what he did with that schedule.

RG3
TM7

cats gone wild;1003821 wrote:Correcto mungo. And Luck played a very easy schedule. When he played good teams, he didnt do to well. Most good QB's could do what he did with that schedule.

RG3
TM7

He didn't do well because he doesn't have much of anything around him. How much NFL talent is on that Stanford offense? Maybe Taylor? Stanford would not have won nearly as many games without Andrew Luck.

Tobias Fünke;1003805 wrote:Ummm I think the end of the spring game. Better hunker down.

What?!

That's fucking stupid

Mathieu had a great season, but I hardly think he is Heisman worthy.

Tobias Fünke;1003599 wrote:non-helmet-school?

Never heard the term "helmet school" before? Basically a team that's so prevalent, their helmet would be recognized by even loosely casual fans. Another way to say "traditional power" I guess.

SportsAndLady;1003895 wrote:What?!

That's ****ing stupid

You don't have to honor that one. ND fans are notorious for not following through on their bets.

georgemc80;1003909 wrote:Mathieu had a great season, but I hardly think he is Heisman worthy.

Did he really even have a GREAT season?


74 total tackes
51 solo
2 INT
1.5 sacks
2TD



Punt Returns
33 for 440 yds = 12yds per return.
2 TD's

So, 4 TOTAL TD's.

No offense, the guy is a great player. To be invited to the Heisman is a JOKE.

centralbucksfan;1003961 wrote:Did he really even have a GREAT season?


74 total tackes
51 solo
2 INT
1.5 sacks
2TD



Punt Returns
33 for 440 yds = 12yds per return.
2 TD's

So, 4 TOTAL TD's.

No offense, the guy is a great player. To be invited to the Heisman is a JOKE.

Perhaps you haven't seen his fumble recovery numbers!! LOL! Be ready for the onslaught. I was called ignorant for saying he shouldn't be in the Heisman discussion.

se-alum;1003965 wrote:Perhaps you haven't seen his fumble recovery numbers!! LOL! Be ready for the onslaught. I was called ignorant for saying he shouldn't be in the Heisman discussion.

He didn't have a great season statistically. He's pretty average for a punt returner playing CB. He was however on National TV 15 times this season and has the CBS/ESPN machine trying to draw more ratings. SEC fans eat it up because they have nothing better to do.

se-alum;1003965 wrote:Perhaps you haven't seen his fumble recovery numbers!! LOL! Be ready for the onslaught. I was called ignorant for saying he shouldn't be in the Heisman discussion.

Is he in the Heisman discussion?

I'm not on the Andrew Luck bandwagon, There are many examples of "this guys is a prototype NFL QB" "yeah he's built for the NFL", then they fall flat on their face when they get to the NFL.

RG3 is the best college player this year.

karen lotz;1003978 wrote:Is he in the Heisman discussion?

Yes, do to what he did returning punts his last two games. I still don't think he deserves to be in the discussion, but it is what it is. Let's face it, he's in the discussion due to 2 punt returns on a national stage.

se-alum;1003965 wrote:Perhaps you haven't seen his fumble recovery numbers!! LOL! Be ready for the onslaught. I was called ignorant for saying he shouldn't be in the Heisman discussion.

I saw the 5 forced fumbles. Still does nothing for me. Again, great player, all american. In discussion for best season/player...nada. Only because LSU is #1 and had no one else.

centralbucksfan;1004017 wrote:I saw the 5 forced fumbles. Still does nothing for me. Again, great player, all american. In discussion for best season/player...nada. Only because LSU is #1 and had no one else.

I watch five LSU games this year (Oregon, West Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas, and Georgia) and when he was on the field he was the best player out there. When it comes to defensive players statistics rarely tell the story. He changed games. In the SEC title game LSU had scored 14 points without a first down due to what TM7 had done. Also, there were times that it was obvious teams were running plays away from him because of the impact that he made. His was easily the best defensive player in the country and perhaps no one else in the national could change the momentum of a game the way that he could. If you don't think he deserves to be a Heisman finalist then I don't think you saw him play this year and I don't think you watched much college football overall. This year he had the closest thing to a Charles Woodson-like season we've seen in over a decade.

krambman;1004514 wrote:I watch five LSU games this year (Oregon, West Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas, and Georgia) and when he was on the field he was the best player out there. When it comes to defensive players statistics rarely tell the story. He changed games. In the SEC title game LSU had scored 14 points without a first down due to what TM7 had done. Also, there were times that it was obvious teams were running plays away from him because of the impact that he made. His was easily the best defensive player in the country and perhaps no one else in the national could change the momentum of a game the way that he could. If you don't think he deserves to be a Heisman finalist then I don't think you saw him play this year and I don't think you watched much college football overall. This year he had the closest thing to a Charles Woodson-like season we've seen in over a decade.

This is only the type of hyperbole we see in the SEC. You've been bought and sold by the CBS/ESPN hype machine. Sure, TM7 made some cool and exciting plays in CFB, but he's not Charles Woodson, he's not even Suh. He does not deserve the Heisman and I will bet you $3000 that he does not win the Heisman. Do we have a deal?

krambman;1004514 wrote:I watch five LSU games this year (Oregon, West Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas, and Georgia) and when he was on the field he was the best player out there. When it comes to defensive players statistics rarely tell the story. He changed games. In the SEC title game LSU had scored 14 points without a first down due to what TM7 had done. Also, there were times that it was obvious teams were running plays away from him because of the impact that he made. His was easily the best defensive player in the country and perhaps no one else in the national could change the momentum of a game the way that he could. If you don't think he deserves to be a Heisman finalist then I don't think you saw him play this year and I don't think you watched much college football overall. This year he had the closest thing to a Charles Woodson-like season we've seen in over a decade.

BOOM! Come on cbf, you are better than that. You must just watch big10/11/12 games.

krambman;1004514 wrote:I watch five LSU games this year (Oregon, West Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas, and Georgia) and when he was on the field he was the best player out there. When it comes to defensive players statistics rarely tell the story. He changed games. In the SEC title game LSU had scored 14 points without a first down due to what TM7 had done. Also, there were times that it was obvious teams were running plays away from him because of the impact that he made. His was easily the best defensive player in the country and perhaps no one else in the national could change the momentum of a game the way that he could. If you don't think he deserves to be a Heisman finalist then I don't think you saw him play this year and I don't think you watched much college football overall. This year he had the closest thing to a Charles Woodson-like season we've seen in over a decade.

They scored 14 points based on what he did as a punt returner. Obviously those were great returns, not gonna win you a Heisman trophy though. As CBF said, great player, All-American, not a Heisman winner. You have to be phenomenal at your position to win the Heisman as a defensive player. He's an average cover guy, that makes tackles in the run game. Charles Woodson was probably the best cover corner in the history of college football, which is why he has a Heisman. He had 8 picks his Heisman season, when QB's were trying to throw opposite of him.

se-alum;1004561 wrote:You have to be phenomenal at your position to win the Heisman as a defensive player. He's an average cover guy, that makes tackles in the run game. Charles Woodson was probably the best cover corner in the history of college football, which is why he has a Heisman. He had 8 picks his Heisman season, when QB's were trying to throw opposite of him.

can't believe I'm defending Woodson, but here are some of his stats from '97:

1995		13
1996		12		6		152				152		25.3		57		1
1997		12		5		41		20		21		4.2		33		1

1995		13
1996		12		13		164		12.6		28		1
1997		12		12		238		19.8		37		2

1995
1996	4	78	21.	23			11	106	9.6	31
1997							36	301	8.4	78	1

I can't believe I'm defending Woodson, but he did have some pretty crazy stats.

http://bentley.umich.edu/athdept/football/fballam/aawoodsn.htm