krambman;1004782 wrote:The Heisman Trophy is not the MVP of College Football award. It is for the most outstanding player in college football this year. I also want to know how many LSU games you watched beginning to end this year to make claims like he's not even the best player at his position on his team.

OhioStatePride2003;1004942 wrote:I watched every game that was on national tv, I'm assuming, just like you did. I know what the Heisman Trophy is, but thanks for spelling it out for me. I do not think the "Honey Badger" is the best player, at his position, on his team, and for me, it's not even close. I would take Morris Claiborne over Thyrann Mathieu any day of the week, and it's not even that close. Both have been relevant for two years at LSU, and Claiborne has 11 INTs, compared to TM7's 4. Claiborne's 6 INTs this season went for a total of 173 yards, or, a 28.8 yard average. He also has a TD on an INT return of 89 yards. He's intercepting passes and giving his team great field position in the process. 2 of Honey Badger's went for an 8 yard average.

Naturally, your response is going to be the punt returns, forced fumbles, the 1.5 sack, and the number of tackles. He only has 2 punt returns, albeit of miraculous nature and on national television. BUT, he had 33 return opportunities for 420 yards, or, a 12.7 yard average. So really, despite having far less opportunities, Claiborne done more with his INTs than TM7 did with his returns. But TM7 did his on a national stage, right? So did Claiborne:

@ Mississippi State W 19-6 2 INTs, not many return yards, but that was a tough game for LSU.
@ Alabama W 9-6 OT 1 INT, huge return of 33 yards inside the 'Bama 20, setting up the tying FG for LSU in the 4th
Arkansas W 41-17 1 INT, intercepted at midfield, LSU up 14 at the time, scores on that drive to go up 21, breaking Arkansas' back.
Georgia W 42-10 1 INT, returned 42 yards for a TD, putting the exclamation point on LSU's 13-0 season

Also had a pick against Tennessee in a 30-some to 7 blow-out.

Now you'll say he has more tackles and, of course, more forced fumbles. Oh, and a sack, too. For one, he plays close to the line in run support. He's not able to do that if there isn't 1) another (better) lockdown corner, and, 2) a stellar supporting cast around him. Because everyone else was so good, he was able to make the plays he did make around the line of scrimmage. Look at where his fumble recoveries took place - behind the line of scrimmage. Same thing applies to the more tackles. Most were at, or, near the line of scrimmage.

I know, TM7 has 4 total TDs. But each of Claiborne's INTs led to scoring drives for LSU, so in the end, the result is the same. More passes defended, though, right? For every spectacular play TM7 made, there were just as many screw-ups. A lot of those deflections came after he recovered from being beat deep, and getting to the receiver just before the ball did. Also, again, how many of those deflected passes came at the line of scrimmage? TM7 is simply just a member of an outstanding (team) defense. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't deserve the Heisman, and isn't even the best player at his position on his team. The only reason he's in New York is because he's the flashier of the two, and was awarded more opportunities to make "big plays" than Claiborne was. Both are good, but Claiborne is better. Period.

OhioStatePride2003;1004942 wrote:I watched every game that was on national tv, I'm assuming, just like you did. I know what the Heisman Trophy is, but thanks for spelling it out for me. I do not think the "Honey Badger" is the best player, at his position, on his team, and for me, it's not even close. I would take Morris Claiborne over Thyrann Mathieu any day of the week, and it's not even that close. Both have been relevant for two years at LSU, and Claiborne has 11 INTs, compared to TM7's 4. Claiborne's 6 INTs this season went for a total of 173 yards, or, a 28.8 yard average. He also has a TD on an INT return of 89 yards. He's intercepting passes and giving his team great field position in the process. 2 of Honey Badger's went for an 8 yard average.

Naturally, your response is going to be the punt returns, forced fumbles, the 1.5 sack, and the number of tackles. He only has 2 punt returns, albeit of miraculous nature and on national television. BUT, he had 33 return opportunities for 420 yards, or, a 12.7 yard average. So really, despite having far less opportunities, Claiborne done more with his INTs than TM7 did with his returns. But TM7 did his on a national stage, right? So did Claiborne:

@ Mississippi State W 19-6 2 INTs, not many return yards, but that was a tough game for LSU.
@ Alabama W 9-6 OT 1 INT, huge return of 33 yards inside the 'Bama 20, setting up the tying FG for LSU in the 4th
Arkansas W 41-17 1 INT, intercepted at midfield, LSU up 14 at the time, scores on that drive to go up 21, breaking Arkansas' back.
Georgia W 42-10 1 INT, returned 42 yards for a TD, putting the exclamation point on LSU's 13-0 season

Also had a pick against Tennessee in a 30-some to 7 blow-out.

Now you'll say he has more tackles and, of course, more forced fumbles. Oh, and a sack, too. For one, he plays close to the line in run support. He's not able to do that if there isn't 1) another (better) lockdown corner, and, 2) a stellar supporting cast around him. Because everyone else was so good, he was able to make the plays he did make around the line of scrimmage. Look at where his fumble recoveries took place - behind the line of scrimmage. Same thing applies to the more tackles. Most were at, or, near the line of scrimmage.

I know, TM7 has 4 total TDs. But each of Claiborne's INTs led to scoring drives for LSU, so in the end, the result is the same. More passes defended, though, right? For every spectacular play TM7 made, there were just as many screw-ups. A lot of those deflections came after he recovered from being beat deep, and getting to the receiver just before the ball did. Also, again, how many of those deflected passes came at the line of scrimmage? TM7 is simply just a member of an outstanding (team) defense. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't deserve the Heisman, and isn't even the best player at his position on his team. The only reason he's in New York is because he's the flashier of the two, and was awarded more opportunities to make "big plays" than Claiborne was. Both are good, but Claiborne is better. Period.

krambman;1004514 wrote:I watch five LSU games this year (Oregon, West Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas, and Georgia) and when he was on the field he was the best player out there. When it comes to defensive players statistics rarely tell the story. He changed games. In the SEC title game LSU had scored 14 points without a first down due to what TM7 had done. Also, there were times that it was obvious teams were running plays away from him because of the impact that he made. His was easily the best defensive player in the country and perhaps no one else in the national could change the momentum of a game the way that he could. If you don't think he deserves to be a Heisman finalist then I don't think you saw him play this year and I don't think you watched much college football overall. This year he had the closest thing to a Charles Woodson-like season we've seen in over a decade.

skank;1010633 wrote:Did RGIII just dis Archie?

OSH;1010803 wrote:I didn't get to see anything or hear anything...if so, what did he say?

skank;1010633 wrote:Did RGIII just dis Archie?

sportswizuhrd;1010855 wrote:Noticed this too. Couldnt help but to laugh about it. He wanted to meet everyone but was being rushed.

Tiernan;1012365 wrote:RG3 was "articulate" wasn't -he?

0311sdp;1013216 wrote: The voters had it about right except that Kellen Moore should have been in the top 5 ahead of either Monte Ball or the "Honey Badger" (to compare this clown with Charles Woodson is a joke) The top 3 no arguement at all.

GOONx19;1013217 wrote:^ Monte Ball outperformed Trent Richardson playing against a weak schedule.

SportsAndLady;1014374 wrote:Yeah cuz that Alabama schedule was sooooooo tough