riders1;1300383 wrote:Is the defensive coordinator in charge of the defensive players? Or is he only responsible for the good plays and does he choose who to put on the field? Can he not pull his defensive players off the field after personal fouls, or is that only a head coaches responsibility. It would seem that the defensive discipline is his responsibility and a reflection of how he coaches/teaches them. Seems to me that most penalties this season were on the defense so it's not only the head coach who should be thrown under the bus but the offensive and defensive coordinators may not be coaching geniuses either despite what some may say and think.No head coaches in waiting here.

Well, definately had to respond to this one!

Pretty sure the head coach makes the decisions on pulling a kid after a penalty. The position coaches make any personnel changes during the course of the game. The personal fouls you speak of were "coin flip" calls that could have gone either way. I was standing on the field and can tell you that I personally asked the ref what the calls were and both responses lead me to believe that the calls were definately questionable.

As a defensive coordinator, I would rather have 11 kids flying around the field and trying to make plays, being agressive and especially being physical. Those hits we had were not cheap shots by any stretch, but they did come at a bad time.

As far as a reflection of the way the defensive coordinator coaches...your damn right. His kids play hard and play physical. Thats the mindset he instills! He will be the first to tell you that he will take a 15 yarder any day of the week as long as he knows the kid was going 110% and trying to make something happen!

No head coaches in the waiting??? Maybe if the D-coord was given more responsibility on the offensive side of the ball there would be more production there...he knows the X's and O's and would get this offense back to the "I" with a ground and pound mindset!!

So the PF's, which were questionable and a result of the kids playing hard (not dirty) on defense?

Just exactly what I saw...kids playing hard, not dirty...maybe frustrated...but nothing that should be any kind of reflection of coaching....other than the mindset that we want the kids to play hard and sometimes you get those calls. I'd rather it be that way than to be a defense afraid to hit someone.

Bad timing on those penalties for sure, but our D has always played that way. And like rrfan said...it didn't just start this year, but that doesn't fit the narrative so it's conveniently excluded.

Go Wooster, beat orrville.

rrfan;1301484 wrote:Wow a lot of reading to catch up on here. As for the personal fouls...Really? Does anyone remember Deke Hostetler, Mark Hershey and otheres. They got then constantly. It happens when frustration starts to overcome a team. It does not make it right and I would sit there butts, however that is a coaches decision.

As I have said before and will say again. This team has very very very little talent and from the sounds of it for the next few years as well. It has been a long year and I would love nothing more than to see these kids get a win against Wooster!

Interesting post. I cant speak for Deke but I can assure you Mark Hershey did not get called for a lot of late hit penalties! This I know!

CCRolly- no time for that right now we are all fighting with oruselfs right now!

RRN- I said nothing of late hit fouls! Read carefully, I said personal fouls! There is a big difference. One is cheap and the other can be aggression.

Red Rider Nation;1301526 wrote:Interesting post. I cant speak for Deke but I can assure you Mark Hershey did not get called for a lot of late hit penalties! This I know!

Confirmed! Dwight Coy was always good for one a game!

rrfan;1301529 wrote:RRN- I said nothing of late hit fouls! Read carefully, I said personal fouls! There is a big difference. One is cheap and the other can be aggression.

Fair

Fair enough! Sounds like you may have played with him and obviously I didnt.

Old Rider- I knew you would remember those days..

TK,
You mentioned you didn't think Davault was the "right hire."

Were you wanting Viscounte (Copley's head coach)? In 6 years there he's 30-30 and has played in exactly ONE playoff game. In Davault's last 6 years he's 40-29 with 3 playoff appearances 9 playoff games (6-3) record.

Copley and us play a lot of the same size schools and have both had our share of college talent. Copley is 5-4 with a RB that is going to Tennessee.

I'm not making the case that Davault is far and away the better coach...but you can't argue that an "obvious" pick wasn't made.

For those that want to talk about staying in house...Mo and Mac were both assistants for their predecessor, but neither were Orrville grads....I think there's only been 2 Orrville coaches that also played for OHS...so that's a poor arguement.

The other finalist was Solis....and I don't know anything other than he was non-renewed at Twinsburg after a successful 4 year run there..leading some to believe it was something other than on-field performance that led to his not being brought back.

It's all hindsight being 20/20 now, but i don't see any candidate that was among the finalists that stood head & shoulders above the rest.

I think this talk is crazy. Davualt is a good coach and a great role model for these kids. I think he works harder than any player out there in the weight room and keeping himself in shape. He makes these kids have a role in the comunity and that is a win win. You do not have the horses this year. That is the bottom line. We can argue about this and that on calls made or not made. We will always do that but the bottom line is this team is still fighting to win and that has to say something for the entire coaching staff and the players. Go win one on Saturday (which I hate that this game is on Saturday) and go out with a victory on a tough season.

I was there for Dwight, Deke and Mook (Mark Hershey). I can tell you that Dwight and Deke were good for one a game and Mark didn’t have any more penalties than anyone else. What I can say is that we did not lack discipline at all, we were just VERY aggressive. Now some may not have respected a certain coach but that’s a different story. Most if not all of the calls on Dwight and Deke happened on the sidelines and many of those were questionable, but a few were not! LOL! I few Orrville players from the 94 all star team were in a bench clearing brawl (that they didn’t start). So I think that put a little more of a “fog” on their performance during the year.

As far as the Red Riders and this season, I think it is a little early for everyone to be calling for the coaches’ head. This is in fact just one season? This thread reads like a bunch of bickering old ladies at bingo night arguing over a free space on the card than a group of men talking about their high school football program! LOL, come on fellas there is a way to express your opinion without being offensive and we don’t’ all have to agree. Perhaps coach should have done better with the talent he has had in the past but only the people on the field REALLY know that. The most of us can only judge this team or any team on what we see on Friday nights. I am no Vince Lombardi but to my eyes this team seems to lack a lot of different things. One I see is the lack of on the field leadership??? I remember my junior year having an all out brawl in the locker room after a two a day practice because of some players just “going through the motions” at practice and making dumb mistakes. We told the coaches to leave and to lock the doors behind them! WE FIGURED IT OUT AS A TEAM! The captains lead the offensive and others followed because that is what leaders do! I know that as a player and former athlete if a coach told me to go eat a shovel full of dog crap because it would make me better I WOULD and so would a lot of you guys. (Old Rider). Not a lot of kids today with that kind of attitude. Combine that with all the other clear problems this team has and it’s a recipe for a hard year. AFTER all this I can only think of one productive thing to say….

BEAT WOOSTER!!!

sanitizer;1301583 wrote:I was there for Dwight, Deke and Mook (Mark Hershey). I can tell you that Dwight and Deke were good for one a game and Mark didn’t have any more penalties than anyone else. What I can say is that we did not lack discipline at all, we were just VERY aggressive. Now some may not have respected a certain coach but that’s a different story. Most if not all of the calls on Dwight and Deke happened on the sidelines and many of those were questionable, but a few were not! LOL! I few Orrville players from the 94 all star team were in a bench clearing brawl (that they didn’t start). So I think that put a little more of a “fog” on their performance during the year.

As far as the Red Riders and this season, I think it is a little early for everyone to be calling for the coaches’ head. This is in fact just one season? This thread reads like a bunch of bickering old ladies at bingo night arguing over a free space on the card than a group of men talking about their high school football program! LOL, come on fellas there is a way to express your opinion without being offensive and we don’t’ all have to agree. Perhaps coach should have done better with the talent he has had in the past but only the people on the field REALLY know that. The most of us can only judge this team or any team on what we see on Friday nights. I am no Vince Lombardi but to my eyes this team seems to lack a lot of different things. One I see is the lack of on the field leadership??? I remember my junior year having an all out brawl in the locker room after a two a day practice because of some players just “going through the motions” at practice and making dumb mistakes. We told the coaches to leave and to lock the doors behind them! WE FIGURED IT OUT AS A TEAM! The captains lead the offensive and others followed because that is what leaders do! I know that as a player and former athlete if a coach told me to go eat a shovel full of dog crap because it would make me better I WOULD and so would a lot of you guys. (Old Rider). Not a lot of kids today with that kind of attitude. Combine that with all the other clear problems this team has and it’s a recipe for a hard year. AFTER all this I can only think of one productive thing to say….

BEAT WOOSTER!!!

I remember MANY team meetings in the locker room that were resolved...without the coaches present. My senior year a certain very well-known kicker thought he was better than the team...that got nipped in the bud...or should I say slammed to the square platform benches in the locker room!

Sanitizer...the bench clearing brawl resulted in the permanent removal of that all-star game. Always good to go down fighting! LOL!

rrfan;1301570 wrote:I think this talk is crazy. Davualt is a good coach and a great role model for these kids. I think he works harder than any player out there in the weight room and keeping himself in shape. He makes these kids have a role in the comunity and that is a win win. You do not have the horses this year. That is the bottom line. We can argue about this and that on calls made or not made. We will always do that but the bottom line is this team is still fighting to win and that has to say something for the entire coaching staff and the players. Go win one on Saturday (which I hate that this game is on Saturday) and go out with a victory on a tough season.

Ditto.

Sanitizer...the bench clearing brawl resulted in the permanent removal of that all-star game. Always good to go down fighting! LOL!

LOL, I was winning SOMETHING the last time I strapped them on! Fortunately we won the game and the fight! I heard about the "kicker talk" while at college! I got letters from Renauld and Zwick! I knew you was good kids! LOL!!! Taking care of dirty laundry in house RIDER STYLE!

sanitizer;1301583 wrote:As far as the Red Riders and this season, I think it is a little early for everyone to be calling for the coaches’ head. This is in fact just one season?

Certainly not everyone...or even anything close to a majority see it that way. It's being painted that way...that "thousands" of Orrville folks want this guy ran out of town...but that's just inaccurate.

I think it's beyond ridiculous all of this chatter about running DeVault out of town, and/or switching to a new conference. You're having your first down year in what seams like 10 years or more.....it happens. If you don't believe me, come over and watch Wooster. Where we have playoff seasons every 8-9 yearsor so if lucky. Trust me, you haven't seen bad unless you've been a Wooster fan...

Old Rider;1301602 wrote:I remember MANY team meetings in the locker room that were resolved...without the coaches present. My senior year a certain very well-known kicker thought he was better than the team...that got nipped in the bud...or should I say slammed to the square platform benches in the locker room!

Sanitizer...the bench clearing brawl resulted in the permanent removal of that all-star game. Always good to go down fighting! LOL!

I am glad when we were living through those things it ended in the locker room as well. You did not have any kicker or anyone going home to tell Mom...when it was settled in the locker room it stayed in the locker room and was put to rest. You don't see that happen today or somebody would cry they are "bullied" soft society today.

Certainly not everyone...or even anything close to a majority see it that way. It's being painted that way...that "thousands" of Orrville folks want this guy ran out of town...but that's just inaccurate.

Understood, Probably should have qualified my statement as "on this thread".... One thing is for sure, can't fault the passion!

I am glad when we were living through those things it ended in the locker room as well. You did not have any kicker or anyone going home to tell Mom...when it was settled in the locker room it stayed in the locker room and was put to rest. You don't see that happen today or somebody would cry they are "bullied" soft society today.

Great observation and FACT! As far as it being over in the locker room and that was it!

CCRolly;1301656 wrote:I think it's beyond ridiculous all of this chatter about running DeVault out of town, and/or switching to a new conference. You're having your first down year in what seams like 10 years or more.....it happens. If you don't believe me, come over and watch Wooster. Where we have playoff seasons every 8-9 yearsor so if lucky. Trust me, you haven't seen bad unless you've been a Wooster fan...

LOL. I'll heed the advice of someone who lived through the last several years of McCreary-ball.

You're absolutely right...1 bad year out of the last 10...and the sky is falling? Hardly. Most programs would take that in a heartbeat of a heartbeat. But that's Orrville...bar is always high.

Old Rider;1301495 wrote:Well, definately had to respond to this one!

Pretty sure the head coach makes the decisions on pulling a kid after a penalty. The position coaches make any personnel changes during the course of the game. The personal fouls you speak of were "coin flip" calls that could have gone either way. I was standing on the field and can tell you that I personally asked the ref what the calls were and both responses lead me to believe that the calls were definately questionable.

As a defensive coordinator, I would rather have 11 kids flying around the field and trying to make plays, being agressive and especially being physical. Those hits we had were not cheap shots by any stretch, but they did come at a bad time.

As far as a reflection of the way the defensive coordinator coaches...your damn right. His kids play hard and play physical. Thats the mindset he instills! He will be the first to tell you that he will take a 15 yarder any day of the week as long as he knows the kid was going 110% and trying to make something happen!

No head coaches in the waiting??? Maybe if the D-coord was given more responsibility on the offensive side of the ball there would be more production there...he knows the X's and O's and would get this offense back to the "I" with a ground and pound mindset!!

As I said coach Haley is by far the best coach on this team. I would back him and the ground and pound any day.

If you care...The last time an Orrville team finished 1-9 was in 1973. Yes, thats right...39 years ago was the last time an Orrville team finished with just one win! Their lone win was against Triway.

They followed that season up with a 3-7 finish in 1974.

The last time Orrville finished with a 2-8 record was in both the 2001 and 2002 seasons.

The last time an Orrville team failed to win a game was in 1966...finished 0-9.

I found it interesting that the 1973 team that went 1-9 only averaged 4.4 pts/game and was shutout 5 times that season. So I guess looking at that stat...our offense could be worse (believe it or not)!

Old Rider;1301805 wrote:If you care...The last time an Orrville team finished 1-9 was in 1973. Yes, thats right...39 years ago was the last time an Orrville team finished with just one win! Their lone win was against Triway.

They followed that season up with a 3-7 finish in 1974.

The last time Orrville finished with a 2-8 record was in both the 2001 and 2002 seasons.

The last time an Orrville team failed to win a game was in 1966...finished 0-9.

I found it interesting that the 1973 team that went 1-9 only averaged 4.4 pts/game and was shutout 5 times that season. So I guess looking at that stat...our offense could be worse (believe it or not)!

Whoever that coach was in 1973 should have been fired. He only went on to NEVER have another losing season in his tenure at Orrville.

Those sure are some detailed stats by the way.

Where O where did you ever find that interesting look back into history? Surely some self-aggrandizing "blogger" guy looking to pat himself on the back.

RedRider1;1301836 wrote:Whoever that coach was in 1973 should have been fired. He only went on to NEVER have another losing season in his tenure at Orrville.

Those sure are some detailed stats by the way.

Where O where did you ever find that interesting look back into history? Surely some self-aggrandizing "blogger" guy looking to pat himself on the back.

Yeah...some geeky, computer, stat-loving guy created that site several years back. He must not have a life and has all the time in the world to just sit in front of a computer and write about the Red Riders! Wow...he needs a hobby or get married and start a family!! Just way too much time on his hands!

Old Rider;1301805 wrote:If you care...The last time an Orrville team finished 1-9 was in 1973. Yes, thats right...39 years ago was the last time an Orrville team finished with just one win! Their lone win was against Triway.

They followed that season up with a 3-7 finish in 1974.

The last time Orrville finished with a 2-8 record was in both the 2001 and 2002 seasons.

The last time an Orrville team failed to win a game was in 1966...finished 0-9.

I found it interesting that the 1973 team that went 1-9 only averaged 4.4 pts/game and was shutout 5 times that season. So I guess looking at that stat...our offense could be worse (believe it or not)!

nice post.


I think it's important to realize just how unique Orrville football is. The fact that we won't accept a losing season (not that we should accept it)even if it happens once every blue moon....shows how passionate and demanding we are as fans. 6-4 is unacceptable and considered a losing season in Orrville, and to be 1-8 makes it even harder to accept....but that doesn't mean we need a complete program overhaul. Should we run something other than the spread...sure, do we need to be more disciplined...sure, do we need to call plays better, sure. It's important that we step back and look at the bigger picture sometimes to realize how special Orrville Red Rider Football is.