rrfan;1338064 wrote:Orrville is down for the first time in a long time and people are enjoying it from all the WCAL schools. I take that as a compliment.

I agree, that's a good way to look at it.

Like AllOhio said........kinda like the Yankees.

AllOhio;1337999 wrote:Don't know if they would've been "just fine" but that's just my opinion. Also I'm pretty sure we would've beat Waynedale, Rittman, Dalton, Chippewa and likely Smithville this past season...as I see it, would've been at least 5-3 in WCAL. Again, my opinion.

I'm not sure i would agree with this years Orrville team beating any of these WCAL teams. We were not mentally tough enough to whoop our way out of a wet paper bag! Hopefully next year is different! That loss to Norwayne dented this program and it did not recover. Talent Shmalent! I agree with most posts as it starts and ends in the weight room and being disciplined enough to put the work in off the field! Obviously this years team wasn't that!!! This team was out toughed, out disciplined, and out conditioned and that was obvious on Friday nights!!!

BRF;1338244 wrote:I agree, that's a good way to look at it.

Like AllOhio said........kinda like the Yankees.

Or like Duke !

Troll King;1338347 wrote:Or like Duke !

Just like Duke!!!

Red Rider Nation;1338247 wrote:I'm not sure i would agree with this years Orrville team beating any of these WCAL teams. We were not mentally tough enough to whoop our way out of a wet paper bag! Hopefully next year is different! That loss to Norwayne dented this program and it did not recover. Talent Shmalent! I agree with most posts as it starts and ends in the weight room and being disciplined enough to put the work in off the field! Obviously this years team wasn't that!!! This team was out toughed, out disciplined, and out conditioned and that was obvious on Friday nights!!!

I think we can all agree...we were out-everythinged last season. Time to move on now.

Troll King;1337902 wrote:I agree it took Norwayne's greatest team ever to defeat an average Orrville team. We were good that year but not great . we have had far better teams in the past , I wonder how Norwayne would've fared against some of those teams.

Orrville was a playoff team. Putting down your own team to make you feel better about losing to a county team?....that's sad.
I think that Orrville team was above average....and if the Riders didn't resort to that mysterious "one guy trying to do to much and scramble or throw a downfield bomb into heavy coverage" second half strategy, the game would have been much closer.

rrfan;1338064 wrote:Orrville is down for the first time in a long time and people are enjoying it from all the WCAL schools. I take that as a compliment.

I'm a county fan and get no real enjoyment out of Orrvilles recent woes....now watching you guys cannibalize each other, that's another matter:laugh:

AllOhio;1338109 wrote:Most definately...kinda like the Yankees, people either love'm or hate'm but you gotta respect'm. I think that's where we sit here in Orrville. I gues we gotta put ourselves in their shoes...imagine if all you read about was how good the Riders are every season. Kind of overshadows all the other area programs, until the past 2 years. That everyone loves it when we lose is absolutely a compliment!

The Yankees are a baseball team and have won 27 championships.
Orrville football has 1 championship.
Put the bong down son......and let your ego heal.
Being a Wayne area fan, I've always enjoyed traveling to Orrville regular season and playoff games. The problem appears to be more about Orrville fans dealing with WCAL success, than WCAL fans hating on Orrville.

AllOhio;1339568 wrote: Time to move on now.

a healthy choice....reps

Red Rum than you are the only one in the county that does not like the fact that Orrville is struggling...

Red Rider Nation;1338247 wrote:I'm not sure i would agree with this years Orrville team beating any of these WCAL teams. We were not mentally tough enough to whoop our way out of a wet paper bag! Hopefully next year is different! That loss to Norwayne dented this program and it did not recover. Talent Shmalent! I agree with most posts as it starts and ends in the weight room and being disciplined enough to put the work in off the field! Obviously this years team wasn't that!!! This team was out toughed, out disciplined, and out conditioned and that was obvious on Friday nights!!!

And out talented too. it was pretty obvious, no?

Did we lose a at least 1 game (Triway) based on coaching? Sure. Did we lose a few (Clear Fork, Madison) on turnovers/mental mistakes? Yeah.

Did we lose most (Copley, Lex, Senior, WH, Ash, Wooster) b/c we just weren't the more talented team? Yep.

Talent matters, especially in high school sports. How many Red Rider teams in the 80 & 90's won games on talent & little else? Too many to count. Yet somehow now talent doesn't matter & it's all on coaching? Doesn't jive with me...sorry.

Red Rider 1 according to some they have talent out there...I just wish that talent would stop hiding and get on to the field/court/mats...

We all know the answer..i'm tired of seeing the claim that we had a dip in talent dismissed as inconsequential. Like talent has NOTHING at all to do with winning games.

It's a bad argument and only done to prop up the position that its all on the coach.

RedRider1;1339929 wrote:We all know the answer..i'm tired of seeing the claim that we had a dip in talent dismissed as inconsequential. Like talent has NOTHING at all to do with winning games.

It's a bad argument and only done to prop up the position that its all on the coach.

I think you are the only one arguing the talent thing-we all agree we were less talented-we ALL agree with that! Were we less talented then the 9 teams we lost to? I struggle with that one but maybe so-judging by the year the basketball team is about to have I may buy that argument!!! I mean a 32 point loss to West Holmes??? Come on now! Maybe it's Smuckers fault again!

Will the same venom be directed at the hoops coach as was directed at the football coach? Guessing not. And anyone doing so would be as misguided as those who blamed 1-9 all on the football coach.

Graduation hit the basketball program hard too. Winters & Brenner provided a ton of scoring & size that we simply don't have this year.

About WH..they'll continue to ride the wave of a pretty good class of juniors & seniors. Same kids who went to state in baseball & regional finals in football. They're up right now, we're down. They're probably the 2nd best OCC team behind Senior.

Lets not forget that back in 2000 and 2001, after the graduation of Brent Steiner, the Miller boys, the Beichlers, Stocker, Robinsons, Zwick to Massillon, and others on those two great 98 and 99 Rider teams, we went 2-8 and then 2-8 again. Was it Coach Macs fault??? NO! We lost a bunch of talent over a two year period at that time and the product showed on the field. Same can be said for the current state of Orrville football. We are in a talent dip, just as we were back in 2000 and 2001. It is about talent!

RedRider1;1339790 wrote:And out talented too. it was pretty obvious, no?

Did we lose a at least 1 game (Triway) based on coaching? Sure. Did we lose a few (Clear Fork, Madison) on turnovers/mental mistakes? Yeah.

Did we lose most (Copley, Lex, Senior, WH, Ash, Wooster) b/c we just weren't the more talented team? Yep.

Talent matters, especially in high school sports. How many Red Rider teams in the 80 & 90's won games on talent & little else? Too many to count. Yet somehow now talent doesn't matter & it's all on coaching? Doesn't jive with me...sorry.

With that said, the coaching must not have mattered as much as one percieves, yet, the coaches recieved much honor for the victories. So now, with "marginal/little talent" do you also have "little coaching"? Does that "jive" with you?

Great point Old Rider. Anyone who doesn't think talent is the major factor in all athletics should not be posting! We are down and, conversely, programs such as W. Holmes, Norwayne, Madison, etc. are at an all-time high as far as talent. Another good example is Clear Fork... recently had a couple great classes who won their 1st ever OCC championship. We see what's happened since.

AllOhio;1340344 wrote:Great point Old Rider. Anyone who doesn't think talent is the major factor in all athletics should not be posting! We are down and, conversely, programs such as W. Holmes, Norwayne, Madison, etc. are at an all-time high as far as talent. Another good example is Clear Fork... recently had a couple great classes who won their 1st ever OCC championship. We see what's happened since.

Yep.

Series62;1340342 wrote:With that said, the coaching must not have mattered as much as one percieves, yet, the coaches recieved much honor for the victories. So now, with "marginal/little talent" do you also have "little coaching"? Does that "jive" with you?

I think we have all been around sports at all levels to know that coaches get too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose. Fact.
What I, and I believe others on here have said about our current football coach is this: he may or may not be the best X and O guy, I don't have enough knowledge of the game and our personnel to make that decision. I do know that his commitment to the kids and to the program and the example he sets is enough to have success if the kids involved, and the parents/guardians of these kids, would be parents/guardians, and hold their own accountable. We will succeed in doing what the MAIN goal is, and that is creating young men who can become good fathers/husbands/citizens....and win football games.

5knots is exactly right...that is why I will always support Coach Davault.

I knew your son Series and can tell by what type of a person he was that you were one of those parents/guardians who took the time to be a parent. Knowing where your son was, who he was with, and more importantly WHAT they were doing. Our biggest challenge going forward as a community is more parents like that. It has nothing to do with race or economics it has to do with being a parent. My ear is to the sidewalk in town as much as it can be and my take is we have a bigger problem with alcohol and drugs being ingested by our youth than any of us would like to think. Biggest problem is parents afraid to say NO. that may seem trivial to many of you but you would be surprised at how few parents hold fast to a 21 year old drinking law. Once that line is crossed, the party rolls on with kids. Wish I knew how to fix it?

5knots;1340441 wrote:I knew your son Series and can tell by what type of a person he was that you were one of those parents/guardians who took the time to be a parent. Knowing where your son was, who he was with, and more importantly WHAT they were doing. Our biggest challenge going forward as a community is more parents like that. It has nothing to do with race or economics it has to do with being a parent. My ear is to the sidewalk in town as much as it can be and my take is we have a bigger problem with alcohol and drugs being ingested by our youth than any of us would like to think. Biggest problem is parents afraid to say NO. that may seem trivial to many of you but you would be surprised at how few parents hold fast to a 21 year old drinking law. Once that line is crossed, the party rolls on with kids. Wish I knew how to fix it?

I don't think that is a new problem, but a continuation of a problem. Some will always get mixed up with it and have for a long time. The problem I see is the parents not doing what they need to do to stop their child. 5knots is right not enough parenting going on.

This is probably one thing that all of us can agree with..rr1, 5knots, series,rider nation and rrfan. Is there anything any of us can do to help this situation? That is a serious question becasuse I am in favor of that.

5knots has mentioned it before..a mentoring program. That is what's needed.

Too many kids growing up with ZERO positive role models to look up to. Entertainers & athletes have more influence on our kids than parents, grandparents & guardians. How sad is that?

Tired of reading the paper about former Red Rider greats finding trouble with the law.

But when does hand-holding stop & personal responsibility start?

RedRider1;1340536 wrote:5knots has mentioned it before..a mentoring program. That is what's needed.

Too many kids growing up with ZERO positive role models to look up to. Entertainers & athletes have more influence on our kids than parents, grandparents & guardians. How sad is that?

Tired of reading the paper about former Red Rider greats finding trouble with the law.

But when does hand-holding stop & personal responsibility start?

I wish this was the answer RR1 but I fear not. I certainly would support such a program but our issues with weed and beer are as much a problem with the 2 parent household (if not more!) than with the single or no parent household. time for folks to stop looking the other way. It is not a popular stance to have but if your friends have underage kids drinking at their house it should be brought up....and I am talking about College kids and their friends. 21 is 21...I do not believe their are special exemptions just because you go to college?

5knots;1340441 wrote:I knew your son Series and can tell by what type of a person he was that you were one of those parents/guardians who took the time to be a parent. Knowing where your son was, who he was with, and more importantly WHAT they were doing. Our biggest challenge going forward as a community is more parents like that. It has nothing to do with race or economics it has to do with being a parent. My ear is to the sidewalk in town as much as it can be and my take is we have a bigger problem with alcohol and drugs being ingested by our youth than any of us would like to think. Biggest problem is parents afraid to say NO. that may seem trivial to many of you but you would be surprised at how few parents hold fast to a 21 year old drinking law. Once that line is crossed, the party rolls on with kids. Wish I knew how to fix it?

My support for anyone attempting to help guide our youth on the "straight and narrow" never has and never will waiver. It seems that if some of us on this site don't agree with coach Davault from the football standpoint, we're made out to "hate" him! I think RRN and TK have said this too many times already.

For 16 years I've taught teen-agers in Sunday School. My goal has been to teach, encourage, mentor and advise the students about the love of Jesus and how to live a Christian life, advising and admonishing them of when it comes to drugs, alcohol, so on and so forth. In faith, much like sports, many parents/guardians are absent in the lives of their children. It's difficult and at times can be very disappointing and also very encouraging when you can reach them!

However, what does that have to do with recognizing that;
A-Running the ball against Triway is working, they can't stop you!
B-Passing isn't working, whatever the reason!
C-Why does the off. coord. keep calling pass plays!
D-Why won't the head coach change the plays being called?

That isn't hate for the coach. But it makes you wonder about his coaching capabilities!

Again sereis the stuff in black is good stuff....actually great stuff. the stuff in red is nothing more than armchair QB stuff which is what anyone can argue about til blue in the face....and I'm OK with that too. If preparing a team and calling plays was left up to me (or you) we would have been 0-10 this year..that I can guarantee...haha.

I won't agree with that 5! LOL! Just because he has the title and the job doesn't make you or I stupid to the sport!

Sometimes the so-called "expert" complicates what is really a simple task. The defense may be able to "read your book", but if the defense on the field can't stop your run, guess what...he's gonna see it, again and again and again!