Series62;1340618 wrote:I won't agree with that 5! LOL! Just because he has the title and the job doesn't make you or I stupid to the sport!

Sometimes the so-called "expert" complicates what is really a simple task. The defense may be able to "read your book", but if the defense on the field can't stop your run, guess what...he's gonna see it, again and again and again!

Great point! It's the obvious moves he makes that make people say huh??? I would imagine he doesn't spend much time watching football because he has NO football IQ! I still haven't got an answer as to why n that 2010 playoff game against Triway with game in hand that he was throwing the ball at the end? Because he has no idea how to manage a football game! None!!!

Red Rider Nation;1340731 wrote:Great point! It's the obvious moves he makes that make people say huh??? I would imagine he doesn't spend much time watching football because he has NO football IQ! I still haven't got an answer as to why n that 2010 playoff game against Triway with game in hand that he was throwing the ball at the end? Because he has no idea how to manage a football game! None!!!

Two years ago, bro....and we won. Time to let go.

RedRider1;1340775 wrote:Two years ago, bro....and we won. Time to let go.

You are dodging the question as usual-nothing new!

Red Rider Nation;1340731 wrote:Great point! It's the obvious moves he makes that make people say huh??? I would imagine he doesn't spend much time watching football because he has NO football IQ! I still haven't got an answer as to why n that 2010 playoff game against Triway with game in hand that he was throwing the ball at the end? Because he has no idea how to manage a football game! None!!!

Really? This is what you come up with? The coach does not watch football? Come on man...you don't have to like him but be respectfull. All these coaches spend a ton of time to prepare each and every week. Have some respect.

Red Rider Nation;1340731 wrote:Great point! It's the obvious moves he makes that make people say huh??? I would imagine he doesn't spend much time watching football because he has NO football IQ! I still haven't got an answer as to why n that 2010 playoff game against Triway with game in hand that he was throwing the ball at the end? Because he has no idea how to manage a football game! None!!!

I guess we should feel real fortunate that we somehow have manged to make a number of deep playoff runs with a coach who "has no idea how to manage a game". Come on RRN, at least make some sense with your posts.

rrfan;1340996 wrote:Really? This is what you come up with? The coach does not watch football? Come on man...you don't have to like him but be respectfull. All these coaches spend a ton of time to prepare each and every week. Have some respect.

Really respect? What are we in 5th grade? Respecting him and thinking he is a good football coach are 2 totally different things-zero football IQ! There is only one coach on this team that has it! Respect now that is funny-

Care to enlighten us with a name?

Chuck Kyle couldn't have done better with the Red Riders this season. I feel for you Rider fans that are going to have to listen to this guy spew the same thing over and over for the next 8 months at least.

Red Rider Nation;1341122 wrote:Really respect? What are we in 5th grade? Respecting him and thinking he is a good football coach are 2 totally different things-zero football IQ! There is only one coach on this team that has it! Respect now that is funny-

I give respect everyday. I'm not in 5th grade.

Is giving respect really a foreign concept to you?

I think everyone on this site is tired of trying to have rational discussion only to be insulted or called some sort of brown noser for facing reality that our talent was down this year. You're doing no favors to your alma mater by the constant bashing...and you're certainly not any representative of Red Rider Nation.

It's talent. Plain & simple. Talent wins games in high school football. Canton McKinley has been a great program for a long time...but has had maybe 1 good coach in the last 20 years (McDaniels). But they've ALWAYS been supremely talented. Not doing anything ground breaking with coaching or execution...just winning on talent....same as we've done since the 70's.

Were Mo or Mac great football minds...or did they just have an awesome amount of talent around them?

Keep thinking a coach change will magically fix things.

RedRider1;1341206 wrote:......It's talent. Plain & simple. Talent wins games in high school football. Canton McKinley has been a great program for a long time...but has had maybe 1 good coach in the last 20 years (McDaniels). But they've ALWAYS been supremely talented. Not doing anything ground breaking with coaching or execution...just winning on talent....same as we've done since the 70's.

Were Mo or Mac great football minds...or did they just have an awesome amount of talent around them?

Keep thinking a coach change will magically fix things.

RedRider1;1331184 wrote:If the team has a down season in basketball, will it be attributed to poor coaching the same way a down season in football was laid at the feet of coaching?

I'll be interested to read the pages and pages of discussion on this matter. LOL.

By these conversations, the coach isn't responsible for the losing due to lack of talent, so, he therefore shouldn't get credit for the "winning" because of an abundance of talent? If that's the case, why should stadiums/gyms be named in their honor?

RedRider1;1313207 wrote:Last season in the "House that Smitty Built." ...
If nothing else, just a "Smitty" on the baseline or somewhere in the gym. Or a banner listing his accomplishments.

Should that be the "House that Marcell Denson Built. , with Renauld Ray and some others named as co-builders?
Or a listing of the names from those championship teams on the floor?

What say you?

RedRider1;1341206 wrote:I give respect everyday. I'm not in 5th grade.

Is giving respect really a foreign concept to you?

I think everyone on this site is tired of trying to have rational discussion only to be insulted or called some sort of brown noser for facing reality that our talent was down this year. You're doing no favors to your alma mater by the constant bashing...and you're certainly not any representative of Red Rider Nation.

It's talent. Plain & simple. Talent wins games in high school football. Canton McKinley has been a great program for a long time...but has had maybe 1 good coach in the last 20 years (McDaniels). But they've ALWAYS been supremely talented. Not doing anything ground breaking with coaching or execution...just winning on talent....same as we've done since the 70's.

Were Mo or Mac great football minds...or did they just have an awesome amount of talent around them?

Keep thinking a coach change will magically fix things.

I see the above as disrespect to Mo, Mac and the staff's that coached with them! Do a bit of research on the 1982 team. You are good at research and let us know what you find.

RedRider1;1341206 wrote:I give respect everyday. I'm not in 5th grade.

Is giving respect really a foreign concept to you?

I think everyone on this site is tired of trying to have rational discussion only to be insulted or called some sort of brown noser for facing reality that our talent was down this year. You're doing no favors to your alma mater by the constant bashing...and you're certainly not any representative of Red Rider Nation.

It's talent. Plain & simple. Talent wins games in high school football. Canton McKinley has been a great program for a long time...but has had maybe 1 good coach in the last 20 years (McDaniels). But they've ALWAYS been supremely talented. Not doing anything ground breaking with coaching or execution...just winning on talent....same as we've done since the 70's.

Were Mo or Mac great football minds...or did they just have an awesome amount of talent around them?

Keep thinking a coach change will magically fix things.

Have it your way-speaking of respect please don't EVER compare anything Doug Davault does to that of Mo Tipton! Mo put this program on the map!

redright21;1341312 wrote:I see the above as disrespect to Mo, Mac and the staff's that coached with them! Do a bit of research on the 1982 team. You are good at research and let us know what you find.

For sure!

Red Rider Nation;1341323 wrote:Have it your way-speaking of respect please don't EVER compare anything Doug Davault does to that of Mo Tipton! Mo put this program on the map!

Who is this Mo Tipton you speak of...Lol!

Guys we are fighting just to fight. Mo had many great years with much talent and many would say he underperformed in the big game. Coach Mac got a Championship. Dabault has been in the hunt as well. An important fact for Orrville Football is the fact that the coaches are around for many years.

Series62;1341262 wrote:By these conversations, the coach isn't responsible for the losing due to lack of talent, so, he therefore shouldn't get credit for the "winning" because of an abundance of talent? If that's the case, why should stadiums/gyms be named in their honor?

Should that be the "House that Marcell Denson Built. , with Renauld Ray and some others named as co-builders?
Or a listing of the names from those championship teams on the floor?

What say you?

None of our facilities are named after an Orrville coach...so what's your point?

Just stirring..as usual.

rrfan;1341582 wrote:Who is this Mo Tipton you speak of...Lol!

Guys we are fighting just to fight. Mo had many great years with much talent and many would say he underperformed in the big game. Coach Mac got a Championship. Dabault has been in the hunt as well. An important fact for Orrville Football is the fact that the coaches are around for many years.

Yes...it is also a fact that Orrville wins alot and goes to the playoffs alot. Wether it's an abundance of talent or coaching (I happen to think it's a combination of both), doesn't really matter! We are successful and that's the bottom line.

AllOhio;1341665 wrote:Yes...it is also a fact that Orrville wins alot and goes to the playoffs alot. Wether it's an abundance of talent or coaching (I happen to think it's a combination of both), doesn't really matter! We are successful and that's the bottom line.

Some would love nothing better than to strip that tradition from our program.....apparently we're nothing special and live in that past....with Red Rider colored glasses on.

Red Rider Nation;1341323 wrote:Have it your way-speaking of respect please don't EVER compare anything Doug Davault does to that of Mo Tipton! Mo put this program on the map!

Mo's first 7 years at Orrville: 44 regular season wins (playoffs didn't exist yet)
Davault's first 7 years at Orrville: 43 regular season wins (not counting playoff wins to make it a fair comparison)

I'd say it's completely fine to compare the two. Time will tell, but it's not some kind of blasphemy to compare & discuss.

And using Series62 logic...the players put the program on the map, not any coach...coaches are meaningless.

For the record...Mac had 49 regular season wins in his first 7 years as head coach...so his first 7 years tops everyone.

redright21;1341312 wrote:I see the above as disrespect to Mo, Mac and the staff's that coached with them! Do a bit of research on the 1982 team. You are good at research and let us know what you find.

You'll have to enlighten me...for I was just a young pup in 1982. I see an '82 team that was 6-4 and missed the playoffs...one of only two teams that decade to not make the playoffs.

Assuming you were on that team or had some close tie to that team and that by your comment, that team had no talent, but overachieved to a 6-4 record.

And my comment wasn't making the statement that Mo & Mac weren't good coaches, just that talent plays a role that is most of the time bigger than any impact a coach has.

We can all pick out a Smitty basketball team or a Mo football that overachieved due to coaching/chemistry...but 9 times out of 10, it's talent first, coaching second....in high school sports.

Someone.... anyone..... Ask me if I'm a red fire truck????? Come on........ LOL! Lots of good points here for sure, I would have to say talent is first, When I have talked with some of the members of some of those amazingly talented Basketball teams from the 90's they bring up a very interesting point.... When you ask what offensive scheme they ran, or what they really tried to do on offense they smile and say "we just ran motion"! Where some of them thought Smitty was relentless was on the defensive side of the court, he just wouldn't allow you to loaf! So in that respect the talent scored the points but Smitty's "grittyness" made the teams tough.... I guess I am kind of typing and thinking at the same time but with the schedule the Ville has you are simply not going to have a real good chance at winning football games without some nucleus of talent? I also believe that when I was in school it was as much (and in some cases more) a result of the assistant coaching staffs ability then it was the head coach. When I was in school we had some amazing assistant coaches, Burk, Vodika, Costello.... I could go on and on. Takes a town to raise a man and a coaching staff to make a team! Just my humble opinion. I think its hard to jump to any conclusions on what these coaches do and don't do but the one thing they do is give there time and effort to trying to make these youngsters better players and better men.

sanitizer;1341754 wrote:Someone.... anyone..... Ask me if I'm a red fire truck????? Come on........ LOL! Lots of good points here for sure, I would have to say talent is first, When I have talked with some of the members of some of those amazingly talented Basketball teams from the 90's they bring up a very interesting point.... When you ask what offensive scheme they ran, or what they really tried to do on offense they smile and say "we just ran motion"! Where some of them thought Smitty was relentless was on the defensive side of the court, he just wouldn't allow you to loaf! So in that respect the talent scored the points but Smitty's "grittyness" made the teams tough.... I guess I am kind of typing and thinking at the same time but with the schedule the Ville has you are simply not going to have a real good chance at winning football games without some nucleus of talent? I also believe that when I was in school it was as much (and in some cases more) a result of the assistant coaching staffs ability then it was the head coach. When I was in school we had some amazing assistant coaches, Burk, Vodika, Costello.... I could go on and on. Takes a town to raise a man and a coaching staff to make a team! Just my humble opinion. I think its hard to jump to any conclusions on what these coaches do and don't do but the one thing they do is give there time and effort to trying to make these youngsters better players and better men.

Do you happen to be a red firetruck?

sanitizer;1341754 wrote: I think its hard to jump to any conclusions on what these coaches do and don't do but the one thing they do is give there time and effort to trying to make these youngsters better players and better men.

Excellent point. If we're not fortunate enough to pass a levy in May, we may lose some of those very good assistants in the different sports. Pretty sure some paid assistant positions will be cut and stipends for all coaches cut as well.

Won't attract too much in the way of adequate coaches if there's nothing to pay them.

Many of them practically work for free as it is, but the little they do get justifies their time. I had an assistant tell me that his stipend equated to $.50 an hour when counting in all his time at games & practices...yet he still did it because he loves doing it.

Do you happen to be a red firetruck?

No sir I am not.

RedRider1;1341664 wrote:None of our facilities are named after an Orrville coach...so what's your point?

Just stirring..as usual.

My point is that if you or others wish for, hope for, or believe that a facility should be named after any of the coaches mentioned, then your quoted spiel basically denigrated their accomplishments by saying that their accomplishments could have been achieved by anyone.

RedRider1;1341683 wrote:...And using Series62 logic...the players put the program on the map, not any coach...coaches are meaningless.../QUOTE]

Really?...my logic?...find and post where I've said that...and in case you forgot your own words...let's repost for your clarification!

[QUOTE=RedRider1;1341206]...It's talent. Plain & simple. Talent wins games in high school football. Canton McKinley has been a great program for a long time...but has had maybe 1 good coach in the last 20 years (McDaniels). But they've ALWAYS been supremely talented. Not doing anything ground breaking with coaching or execution...just winning on talent....same as we've done since the 70's.

Were Mo or Mac great football minds...or did they just have an awesome amount of talent around them?...

Perhaps, you should pay attention to what you write before you write it, you won't have to spend so much time trying to clean it up!