Skyhook79;968287 wrote:Testimony at a Grand jury hearing isn't necessarily "fact". Are you telling me people never lie or embellish their testimony at Grand Jury hearings? Prosecutors control who testify's and they are the only ones asking questions, witnesses are not allowed to have an Attorney with them during questioning. What determines if it is fact or not is at the criminal trial where witnesses can be cross examined and rebutted.
A Grand Jury's job is determine if their is enough evidence to go to trial and IF what was testified to would be a crime.

Lol wut?

If testimony at a grand jury isn't fact, isn't it perjury?

Yes, it is perjury. Which is why Schultz/Curley are being charged with such. They didn't need to testify in the first place.

What would be the difference if McQueary was cross examined? What would be the questions?

"Are you lying?" "Seriously, are you lying?"

Mulva;968151 wrote:
Charged with what?

From everything I understand, witnessing/without a doubt knowing about child abuse and not acting is a criminal offense. So, if McQueary saw what he said and knew what he knew and didn't A. Intervene or B. Call the police, he can be charged with a secondary offense; almost like an accomplice to the act.

gorocks99;968281 wrote:McQueary has been placed on "administrative leave"

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7221182/penn-state-nittany-lions-mike-mcqueary-placed-administrative-leave-interim-president-says

That's a step in the right direction for that scum bag.

Manhattan Buckeye;968362 wrote:
What would be the difference if McQueary was cross examined?\

It's not just about cross examination, it's the entire absence of defense at a grand jury. You cannot say for certain that everything that comes up in a grand jury is fact. You should know that.

lhslep134;968386 wrote:It's not just about cross examination, it's the entire absence of defense at a grand jury. You cannot say for certain that everything that comes up in a grand jury is fact. You should know that.

You don't think Schultz/Curley had counsel present? Who counseled them to testify in the first place? No one held a gun to their head and say go testify.

They testified. They were found non-credible. Poor lawyering perhaps, or more likely they aren't credible.

bigkahuna;967466 wrote:BUT somehow shouldn't make the person viewing with his eyes not take immediate action. You can say "READ THE REPORT" all you want. We've all read it. I'll agree that he was probably the biggest man in the Athletic Department, but no way was he above the president, Univ. Police, trustees....

I read something on CNN that stated that the AD informed that they had done "an internal investigation, and found no evidence of wrongdoing." At the end of the day, that's HIS boss and by being that, his word is trusted no matter who you are.

Paterno only the biggest man in the Athletic Department??? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Is there a bronze statue of anyone else on the Penn State campus?? Are you aware that Paterno got THREE of his own people put on the Board of Trustees? Two of his former players and a former manager of his football team. Can you name another coach in the country that has that much power?? The man had THE POWER to DEMAND that after it became apparent that nothing was done about Sanduky, to insist on a police investigation. ONE MORE TIME....Paterno told the Grand Jury under oath that, "In the shower Sandusky fondled AND was doing something of a sexual nature TO a young boy. THAT IS SICKENING, anyone of authority who didn't follow up when it became obvious Sandusky was getting off scott free is just as SICKENING.

Why the fark would McQueary lie???? He wanted Paterno's job???? Ignorance. The more gory his description got of what took place in the shower the WORSE he looked. THINK ABOUT IT!!!

Skyhook79;967688 wrote:His 61 years of service,charitable work etc... tells me he was concerned for young men. Who are you to question someone's moral compass? Thats why they don't prosecute "Morals" in a court of Law.

Wrong, WRONG, W-R-O-N-G....It is painfully obvious Paterno was more concerned about his old friend, more concerned about football, more concerned about Penn State, more concerned about it's brand name, MORE concerned about A LOT of things before a concern about Sandusky's victims.

Skyhook79;968287 wrote:Testimony at a Grand jury hearing isn't necessarily "fact". Are you telling me people never lie or embellish their testimony at Grand Jury hearings? Prosecutors control who testify's and they are the only ones asking questions, witnesses are not allowed to have an Attorney with them during questioning. What determines if it is fact or not is at the criminal trial where witnesses can be cross examined and rebutted.
A Grand Jury's job is determine if their is enough evidence to go to trial and IF what was testified to would be a crime.

Thanks for summing up what I already said. And there would have to be facts and evidence presented in the GJ testimony to warrant an indictment. So yes, the testimony is fact. The ones that lie get charged with perjury. Last I heard, it wasn't McQueary's testimony that was dubbed as lies. And his testimony was that boys were getting raped.

j_crazy;968316 wrote:Lol wut?

If testimony at a grand jury isn't fact, isn't it perjury?

LOL, right?

Think about this.

I saw an interview with Dr. Robert Schoop of Kansas State University whose specialization is in child molestation. He said molesters are almost always an individual of power over the child molested. They have an overwhelming persona of being a bigger than life, physically large, dominate, powerful individual. Sound like Sandusky?

Did you know the McQueary family and the Sandusky family were close friends? They did many social activities together. The McQuearys spent MANY days at the Sandusky home. When a young boy, Mike McQueary had many sleep overs at the Sandusky home. Sandusky had 6 adopted children. What did the young McQueary see at Sandusky's house when he was there alone. What did he hear and see in the basement bedroom. Did he sleep in the basement bedroom? Did Sandusky ever act inappropriately with the young McQueary? McQueray played football for Penn State. McQueary was a GA under Sandusky. McQueary was an assistant coach under Sandusky. McQueary witnessed Sandusky's dominate persona for 25 years. There are many reasons to believe McQueary was frightened by Sandusky.

When McQueary saw Sandusky in the shower with that 10 year old boy, Sandusky also saw him. Why did McQuery run right to his father's house? Why did McQueary stay overnight at his father's house instead of going home? McQueary and his father were sure Paterno would do the right thing and take Sandusky out of circulation. Paterno also let them down.

Not excusing what McQueray did or didn't do, just presenting the power and fear Sandusky can and did hold over individuals.

Big Gain;968415 wrote:Paterno only the biggest man in the Athletic Department??? :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Is there a bronze statue of anyone else on the Penn State campus?? Are you aware that Paterno got THREE of his own people put on the Board of Trustees? Two of his former players and a former manager of his football team. Can you name another coach in the country that has that much power?? The man had THE POWER to DEMAND that after it became apparent that nothing was done about Sanduky, to insist on a police investigation. ONE MORE TIME....Paterno told the Grand Jury under oath that, "In the shower Sandusky fondled AND was doing something of a sexual nature TO a young boy. THAT IS SICKENING, anyone of authority who didn't follow up when it became obvious Sandusky was getting off scott free is just as SICKENING.

1. Several schools' facilities have statues of coaching icons, so this really has no clout as to how much power someone has.

2. How did he get those people on the BoT?

3. Again... You don't know what Paterno was told by his supervisors regarding the matter. This is why I'm holding judgement on him until more facts come out.

As much as you hate to admit it, he does not have power over the entire university and the BoT. At the end of the day, he has to fall in line with them as we've seen.

Before someone on here jumps about 2004, when they asked him to retire, why doesn't someone answer me this... Given the fact that he IS the football program, who wants to force him out after a few bad seasons? Joe Pa AS A COACH, was more about winning and losing, and he showed that through his philanthropy, no person wants to bring an end to that.

Big Gain;968471 wrote:Think about this.

I saw an interview with Dr. Robert Schoop of Kansas State University whose specialization is in child molestation. He said molesters are almost always an individual of power over the child molested. They have an overwhelming persona of being a bigger than life, physically large, dominate, powerful individual. Sound like Sandusky?

Did you know the McQueary family and the Sandusky family were close friends? They did many social activities together. The McQuearys spent MANY days at the Sandusky home. When a young boy, Mike McQueary had many sleep overs at the Sandusky home. Sandusky had 6 adopted children. What did the young McQueary see at Sandusky's house when he was there alone. What did he hear and see in the basement bedroom. Did he sleep in the basement bedroom? Did Sandusky ever act inappropriately with the young McQueary? McQueray played football for Penn State. McQueary was a GA under Sandusky. McQueary was an assistant coach under Sandusky. McQueary witnessed Sandusky's dominate persona for 25 years. There are many reasons to believe McQueary was frightened by Sandusky.

When McQueary saw Sandusky in the shower with that 10 year old boy, Sandusky also saw him. Why did McQuery run right to his father's house? Why did McQueary stay overnight at his father's house instead of going home? McQueary and his father were sure Paterno would do the right thing and take Sandusky out of circulation. Paterno also let them down.

Not excusing what McQueray did or didn't do, just presenting the power and fear Sandusky can and did hold over individuals.

Seriously, how many times are you going to post this? By what you're saying, I can post Pennsylvania law and bring in the fact that Joe Pa and Sandusky were friends for 30 years. Thinking that someone that close to you could do something so heinous would take a psychological toll on you no matter what.

"3. Again... You don't know what Paterno was told by his supervisors regarding the matter."

We know what his grand jury testimony was.

That is enough. I'm at our "club" now, children 12 and under aren't even allowed in the gym. Young people 13-17 can use the facilities, but they can't check into the locker room (showers) without a parent. It is strictly enforced.

"Boy", "shower" and "Sandusky" should have raised a red flag with everyone with a hint of a conscience, or a clue.

Manhattan Buckeye;968514 wrote:"3. Again... You don't know what Paterno was told by his supervisors regarding the matter."

We know what his grand jury testimony was.

That is enough. I'm at our "club" now, children 12 and under aren't even allowed in the gym. Young people 13-17 can use the facilities, but they can't check into the locker room (showers) without a parent. It is strictly enforced.

"Boy", "shower" and "Sandusky" should have raised a red flag with everyone with a hint of a conscience, or a clue.

Nothing in there has been stated. Until some of these things are cleared up, I personally am going to hold off on my judgement.

From the report:

"Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State athletic director and Paterno's immediate supervisor, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy"

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf?sct=hp_t12_a9

Is JoePa lying?

Manhattan Buckeye;968556 wrote:From the report:

"Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State athletic director and Paterno's immediate supervisor, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy"

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf?sct=hp_t12_a9

Is JoePa lying?

Not sure why felt the need to post this yet again....

You just showed me that Joe did what was required of him to do. Also, if you continue to read the report, the AD/VP didn't contact the authorities within 48 hours as the law dictates. They also waited "a week and a half" before confronting McQueary about the matter. Nowhere does it state that the AD/VP did/didn't follow up with Joe Pa nor does it state that Joe Pa did/didn't come calling to ask what they found out. Again, until that information is known, I will not make judgement. It also states that the AD/VP followed up with McQueary "several weeks later" If that's the case, don't you think they'd put Joe Pa in the loop. It specifically states that Joe was not involved in either meeting between the AD/VP and McQueary.

Also, we don't know that Joe Pa was asked within the GJ report what was done amongst all parties as a follow up.

"Not sure why felt the need to post this yet again.... "

Because I continue to be amazed at all of the people falling off the idiot tree and hitting every branch on the way down.

I don't care if I'm a legend at one of the greatest programs of all time, or the lowly cross-country coach at Gallia Academy. When I hear that a boy is inappropriately in my locker room I try to find out who he is and that he gets the help he needs. That is the least I can do.

Manhattan Buckeye;968584 wrote:"Not sure why felt the need to post this yet again.... "

Because I continue to be amazed at all of the people falling off the idiot tree and hitting every branch on the way down.

I don't care if I'm a legend at one of the greatest programs of all time, or the lowly cross-country coach at Gallia Academy. When I hear that a boy is inappropriately in my locker room I try to find out who he is and that he gets the help he needs. That is the least I can do.

How have I hit the idiot tree? I read the report just like you did and formulated my own opinion given what is written. Couple that with having actual knowledge and experience with reporting sexual child abuse, and I think I have a very good grasp on what the situation is. I've posted several questions/issues with what has been presented.

Manhattan Buckeye;968584 wrote:"Not sure why felt the need to post this yet again.... "

Because I continue to be amazed at all of the people falling off the idiot tree and hitting every branch on the way down.

I don't care if I'm a legend at one of the greatest programs of all time, or the lowly cross-country coach at Gallia Academy. When I hear that a boy is inappropriately in my locker room I try to find out who he is and that he gets the help he needs. That is the least I can do.

Yep. Either Paterno is an idiot or the worst leader any college football program ever had. Since I'm pretty sure he isn't an idiot, I'll go with the latter. It's also one of the reasons he got canned.

"Also, we don't know that Joe Pa was asked within the GJ report what he did as a follow up... "

No one from the university did so. Page 10 of the report.

bigkahuna wrote:Not sure why felt the need to post this yet again....

Because Manhattan Buckeye must not have made the Penn State football team, or was raped by a man who came into his room dressed as a lion. I can't figure out which one. All I know is he certainly seems to hate Joe Paterno.

As I've conveyed before, no matter how hard I try, I just cannot wrap my mind around how so many can so hostilely and enthusiastically applaud the demise of such a noble and illustrious man. It's all so senseless. A tragedy of dynamic proportions.

You are still loved greatly, Joe Pa.

Manhattan, at least give me the benefit of the doubt of actually having a sound/coherent thought on this matter. At the very least, don't lump me in with the likes of sleeper/reclegend.

I merely think there are more details that need to be known before we can actually put an accurate portrayal on Joe Paterno.

reclegend22;968607 wrote:Because Manhattan Buckeye must not have made the Penn State football team, or was raped by a man who came into his room dressed as a lion. I can't figure out which one. All I know is he certainly seems to hate Joe Paterno.

As I've conveyed before, no matter how hard I try, I just cannot wrap my mind around how so many can so hostilely and enthusiastically applaud the demise of such a noble and illustrious man. It's all so senseless. A tragedy of dynamic proportions.

You are still loved greatly, Joe Pa.

I didn't go to Penn State, as an OSU fan I don't particularly care for Penn State.

I am troubled why people think that at the least, a 60 year old man was in the shower with a boy is not worth reporting to real authorities.

And that is even at the least. That isn't getting into whether JoePa was told about the anal rape.

bigkahuna;968618 wrote:Manhattan, at least give me the benefit of the doubt of actually having a sound/coherent thought on this matter. At the very least, don't lump me in with the likes of sleeper/reclegend.

I merely think there are more details that need to be known before we can actually put an accurate portrayal on Joe Paterno.

I do think you make coherent points, but I don't understand why a supposed leader/legend didn't lead.