Damaging property I'll give you that one. It's one of the saddest parts of protests and riots. And disturbing the peace is oftentimes a bullshit charge.

Plus I'd bet there's a pretty big disparity in the average age of the two movements. I'd speculate the Tea Party is on average significantly older. Older people tend to know better than to litter.

Yeah Writer he really "got me". It has nothing to do with trashing other people's property and I said as much. And disturbing the peace is code for "they weren't really doing anything wrong but we wanted to arrest them because we disagree with what they're saying".

Chicago Board of Trade response to "occupiers":

O-Trap;924522 wrote:The "disturbing the peace" I would be careful about wielding, as some cops seem to throw it around too much.

At times but not in this case. They shut down the Brooklyn bridge. The bridge is a necessary avenue for for peaceful people to live their lives and support their families. Blocking that bridge is disrupting the peace. Pictures don't lie. The tea party did nothing of the sort.

I Wear Pants;924527 wrote:Damaging property I'll give you that one. It's one of the saddest parts of protests and riots. And disturbing the peace is oftentimes a bull**** charge.

Plus I'd bet there's a pretty big disparity in the average age of the two movements. I'd speculate the Tea Party is on average significantly older. Older people tend to know better than to litter.

Yeah Writer he really "got me". It has nothing to do with trashing other people's property and I said as much. And disturbing the peace is code for "they weren't really doing anything wrong but we wanted to arrest them because we disagree with what they're saying".

Then your equating this with the Tea Party is not accurate. I know you've got a hard on for the Tea Party and want to trash it at every turn, but I'm afraid you whiffed on this one. Don't give up, though, I'm sure more opportunities will come along. :rolleyes:

majorspark;924538 wrote:At times but not in this case. They shut down the Brooklyn bridge. The bridge is a necessary avenue for for peaceful people to live their lives and support their families. Blocking that bridge is disrupting the peace. Pictures don't lie. The tea party did nothing of the sort.

And that very well may be the case.

However, I would contend that, in the past, intelligent people who have stood for good causes have been arrested for disturbing the peace, and that may have been illegitimate as well.

Not saying I condone it at all, but it hardly makes them unintelligent.

I Wear Pants;924527 wrote:And disturbing the peace is code for "they weren't really doing anything wrong but we wanted to arrest them because we disagree with what they're saying".

Tell that to the small business owner whose truck got caught in traffic because they blocked this bridge an he could not get his product to his customer on time. Blocking this bridge did not hurt one corporate big shot. Nor the evil banker these malcontents rail against. Yea these idiots got some balls. Do they march into the NYSE and shut it down? Big banks? The Fed? No. They shut down the commerce and free activity of the common man. The very people they claim they are defending. LOL! Pants you don't want to be associated with these pussies.

So you wouldn't be saying anything about them if they were simply protesting on Wall Street? You wouldn't find them stupid or "malcontents"?

O-Trap;924554 wrote:And that very well may be the case.

In this instance it is the case. Pictures don't lie. By shutting down the Brooklyn bridge they harm the very people they claim to be protesting for.

O-Trap;924554 wrote:However, I would contend that, in the past, intelligent people who have stood for good causes have been arrested for disturbing the peace, and that may have been illegitimate as well.

Not saying I condone it at all, but it hardly makes them unintelligent.

I am talking about this instance and this instance alone. I would have more respect for them if they marched into the NYSE and occupied it.

majorspark;924608 wrote:I am talking about this instance and this instance alone. I would have more respect to them if they marched into the NYSE and occupied it.

Would that not also prevent people from conducting daily business, as well as cause havoc on industry in general?

That would sound like just as much disturbing of the peace.

O-Trap;924616 wrote:Would that not also prevent people from conducting daily business, as well as cause havoc on industry in general?

That would sound like just as much disturbing of the peace.

Yes and they should be arrested for it. That is not my point. My point is they could hit closer to what they are protesting against but lack the guts. So they take the easy gutless route and hit just the common man going about his business.

majorspark;924621 wrote:Yes and they should be arrested for it. That is not my point. My point is they could hit closer to what they are protesting against but lack the guts. So they take the easy gutless route and hit just the common man going about his business.

Given the fact that many of them clearly don't have an understanding of what the actual problem is and what an actual solution would look like, I'd be willing to bet that they did that less out of cowardice and more out of ignorance. Sort of the attitude that says, "I don't know what to do, but let's do SOMETHING!"

A $40k "living wage" (i.e. $20 an hour) would be nice. Of course, the result would be even more soaring unemployment and shitty service many places (or inflation, which would then defeat the purpose).

And then, LMAO....imagine how that discussion went:
college grad delivering pizzas: "guaranteed min wage of $20 an hour!"
unemployed hippie: "guaranteed living wage regardless of job status!"

Sad part is, a few of those ideas have some merit and actually aren't bad (like the trillion we could have and should have spent on infrastructure with the first stimulus). So they don't all appear to be nuts, but what must the rational ones be thinking associating with these loons?

O-Trap;924626 wrote:Given the fact that many of them clearly don't have an understanding of what the actual problem is and what an actual solution would look like, I'd be willing to bet that they did that less out of cowardice and more out of ignorance. Sort of the attitude that says, "I don't know what to do, but let's do SOMETHING!"

Yeah, like, if they broke in and stole the NYSE bell, then the market would never be able to open!

gut;924628 wrote:Yeah, like, if they broke in and stole the NYSE bell, then the market would never be able to open!

LOL!

More like if they simply flooded the floor and made any transactional business impossible, but since many of them appear to be college students, I could see someone trying to steal the bell ... sounds like a college prank.

O-Trap;924626 wrote:Given the fact that many of them clearly don't have an understanding of what the actual problem is and what an actual solution would look like, I'd be willing to bet that they did that less out of cowardice and more out of ignorance. Sort of the attitude that says, "I don't know what to do, but let's do SOMETHING!"

They may be ignorant of what the actual problem is, but they clearly believe that Wall Street, Big Corporations, and Big Banks are the problem. Believing what they believe they chose to cause disruption to the common man. Not the entities they blame for the problem. Yet those entities are just around the corner. They know that disrupting those entities will bring a harsher reaction. No I believe they are cowards.

gut;924627 wrote:A $40k "living wage" (i.e. $20 an hour) would be nice. Of course, the result would be even more soaring unemployment and shitty service many places (or inflation, which would then defeat the purpose).

And then, LMAO....imagine how that discussion went:
college grad delivering pizzas: "guaranteed min wage of $20 an hour!"
unemployed hippie: "guaranteed living wage regardless of job status!"

Sad part is, a few of those ideas have some merit and actually aren't bad (like the trillion we could have and should have spent on infrastructure with the first stimulus). So they don't all appear to be nuts, but what must the rational ones be thinking associating with these loons?

I think it's the loons associating with the rational ones. And this list was posted on the internet and is certainly not representative of all the people.

But yes, guaranteed wages regardless of status is not a very good idea.

majorspark;924645 wrote:They may be ignorant of what the actual problem is, but they clearly believe that Wall Street, Big Corporations, and Big Banks are the problem.

I'm not sure they know WHAT the problem is. I've seen big business blamed by some and the Federal reserve or even big government itself blamed by others. As such, I'm not sure you can assert that the masses at large are even unified on what ... or who ... they think the problem is.

majorspark;924645 wrote:Believing what they believe they chose to cause disruption to the common man.

I think you're already beyond their ability to reason. You have to remember that mob mentality tends to drop the decision-making IQ of the masses as a whole.

majorspark;924645 wrote:Not the entities they blame for the problem. Yet those entities are just around the corner.

Again, I think you're just over the head of the collective. There may be individuals who understood this, but there were LIKELY enough of the masses that didn't think it through that far ... not unlike MANY people when it comes to their views on government.

majorspark;924645 wrote:They know that disrupting those entities will bring a harsher reaction.

At this point, I'd be willing to bet against you.

O-Trap;923928 wrote:In a way it's sad, though. They, like everyone, recognize that there is a problem. They (the ones I've seen, anyway) just don't seem to have even remotely close to an adequate understanding of how to solve it.

Wait.....are you talking about the protesters or people working on Capitol Hill?

dwccrew;924678 wrote:Wait.....are you talking about the protesters or people working on Capitol Hill?

Yes.

O-Trap;924669 wrote:I'm not sure they know WHAT the problem is. I've seen big business blamed by some and the Federal reserve or even big government itself blamed by others. As such, I'm not sure you can assert that the masses at large are even unified on what ... or who ... they think the problem is.

I understand what you are saying here. But big government does not seem to be the mantra here. I am not on the ground there so I can't say for sure. But the media is reporting otherwise. Not always a reliable indicator, but I have searched the internetz and find none railing against big government. Just the opposite in fact. Central control to bind big business and banks seems to be the objective of their protests.

O-Trap;924669 wrote:I think you're already beyond their ability to reason. You have to remember that mob mentality tends to drop the decision-making IQ of the masses as a whole.

True to an extent. But a lot of the arguments on this thread pertain to the tea party as compared to the Wall Street "occupiers". For some reason the mob mentality in the tea party protest did not lead them to disrupt commerce of any kind. Nor litter on public property. I have not seen any pics of the Wall Street occupiers blatantly littering public lands. So perhaps they have learned their lessons from past protests.

O-Trap;924669 wrote:At this point, I'd be willing to bet against you.

I'll take that bet against all of my vcash. If revolution is what the want. I have heard them speak of it. Take it to the source. I know jail terms are at risk when you disrupt Wall Street. The feds may slap you with felonies and terms in federal prison. They chose to disrupt main street. That brings you a misdemeanor and a small fine.

majorspark;924689 wrote:I understand what you are saying here. But big government does not seem to be the mantra here. I am not on the ground there so I can't say for sure. But the media is reporting otherwise. Not always a reliable indicator, but I have searched the internetz and find none railing against big government. Just the opposite in fact. Central control to bind big business and banks seems to be the objective of their protests.

I've seen numerous signs being held that would constitute an anti-central government sentiment, as well as a short video done by someone there (and uploaded to Facebook) talking about what he believes it to be about. Let me see if I can dig it up.

majorspark;924689 wrote: True to an extent. But a lot of the arguments on this thread pertain to the tea party as compared to the Wall Street "occupiers". For some reason the mob mentality in the tea party protest did not lead them to disrupt commerce of any kind. Nor litter on public property. I have not seen any pics of the Wall Street occupiers blatantly littering public lands. So perhaps they have learned their lessons from past protests.

I was at one Tea Party rally (an early one, when it was just about spending, and when no party affiliations were placed on it), and it had more of a "concert" feel than a "protest" feel. I don't agree with comparing this to the Tea Party, or at least any Tea Party rally I've seen, because it never seemed to be a protest as much as it was just a rally.

majorspark;924689 wrote: I'll take that bet against all of my vcash. If revolution is what the want. I have heard them speak of it. Take it to the source. I know jail terms are at risk when you disrupt Wall Street. The feds may slap you with felonies and terms in federal prison. They chose to disrupt main street. That brings you a misdemeanor and a small fine.

My point of disagreement was the assumption that "they know." What I'm willing to bet is not that you're incorrect when it comes to these risks. Rather, what I'm willing to bet is that "they know" it.

Maybe that makes me an ass for assuming them to be overtaken by mob mentality and given over to idiocy so intense that the things you and I would consider logical conclusions wouldn't even enter their heads.

O-Trap;924692 wrote:I've seen numerous signs being held that would constitute an anti-central government sentiment, as well as a short video done by someone there (and uploaded to Facebook) talking about what he believes it to be about. Let me see if I can dig it up.

Please do. There may be a few out there. I saw some end the fed sings but that was it. Even if you dig deep and find a few anti-central government is definitely not the theme of these protesters.

O-Trap;924692 wrote:My point of disagreement was the assumption that "they know." What I'm willing to bet is not that you're incorrect when it comes to these risks. Rather, what I'm willing to bet is that "they know" it.

Maybe that makes me an ass for assuming them to be overtaken by mob mentality and given over to idiocy so intense that the things you and I would consider logical conclusions wouldn't even enter their heads.

You and I are now arguing at an intellectual level far above the average "wall street" or "tea party protester". Perhaps you are right and the "wall street" protesters are operating under a mob mentality. I am not so sure but I have no way to prove otherwise at this point. If that be the case one could conclude that the "tea party" protesters did not operate under such a mentality in that they did not participate in irrational activities. Such as a mob would engage in. Like blocking major arteries of commerce.

majorspark;924697 wrote:Please do. There may be a few out there. I saw some end the fed sings but that was it. Even if you dig deep and find a few anti-central government is definitely not the theme of these protesters.

I will look.

majorspark;924697 wrote: You and I are now arguing at an intellectual level far above the average "wall street" or "tea party protester". Perhaps you are right and the "wall street" protesters are operating under a mob mentality. I am not so sure but I have no way to prove otherwise at this point. If that be the case one could conclude that the "tea party" protesters did not operate under such a mentality in that they did not participate in irrational activities. Such as a mob would engage in.

I never heard of any Tea Party rally transpiring in such a way as to even be considered a protest, and as such, I don't think a "mob" mentality ever really formed.

To be fair, that doesn't mean there wasn't a plethora of ignorant people at Tea Party rallies as well (I suspect that some rallies would have had a large turnout of nutjobs). Just means they were never provoked to operate under mob mentality.

When did becoming wealth not be a goal?

So we have a group of anti- capitalist, liberal entitlement asshole and unemployed educated Democrat Obama supporter protesting against Wall St. and Wealthy Individuals and Companies. Wanting silly demands and surtax the millionaires. Demonizing rich and wealthy Americans for their and others failures as a productive member of society. Placing the blame on others for their lack of fortitude and worthless Liberal Art degree.

I don’t know about you but I grew up wanting to be rich, have cars, big house and money. I grew up understanding that hard work, confidence, creativity, drive, ambition and goals would be the guidelines to achieve wealth. I grew up with the knowledge that education, dedication and entrepreneur mentality would be the path to riches. If I did not reach those expectations then I had to compromise and over achieve in other areas to reach that goal of living comfortable and rich. I’m not rich, as rich as I had wanted but I’m comfortable and a provider.

This protest is not about taxes … and who pays what. It not Wall St or the Wealthy that has provided the lope holes, back door agreement, tax policies. Government is the problem .. Take a look at the most recent situation Federal Financing Bank and the political payback of the Obama Administration. Protestors turn your ass around an march on Washington, President, Senators and Congress they are the ones that you have a bitch with they are the ones that are lining their pockets with your tax money and wasting Federal revenues.

This is a cry of those who are now beginning to see that their party, their ideas, their agenda are not working and they are being punished for the poor representation they have followed. This is where the socialist is being squeezed by their own theories and don’t understand what happening. Democrat and Socialist always have to a out .. that they done nothing wrong but wrong has been done to them.

What I am seeing is the last breath of the Democrat supporters of Obama fleeing….
Democrat Politicians are grasping that this group for their own survival … not the presidential election of 2012 but for again the vote for their own prosperity. Obama give credence to them but why not the TEA Party movement? The Democrat Socialist Party has created this underlying class turmoil and now faced with the potential self destruction in 2012.

I want to be wealthy, I want to be rich, I want to be a provider, I want to die knowing my family is taken care of, is this type of legacy not longer the goals.

majorspark;924512 wrote:They were protesting against the richest entity on the face of the earth. The federal government. Your point? What does that have to do with trashing public property and getting arrested for disrupting the peace?

Yes, the only trillionaire on the planet. Think about that, Pants.

Thanks for understanding my points, major. I didn't realize it would go so far over some people's heads. Oh well, I guess that's what happens when you're drunk on Kool-Aid. :laugh:

HHmm, "..protesting rich people." How did we get to this point? A street gathering of miscreants to protest those that have worked their way to the top of the economic ladder? Smacks of blatant jealousy and envy, but it's politically correct as long as they aren't protesting a certain Kenyan marxist agitator-in-chief.

Oh wait...I forgot...they were ALL born with silver spoons in their mouths and didn't work a day in their lives. They ALL belong to the lucky sperm club. They deserve to be dragged into the streets and have their arses kicked. Got it.