Here's an honest question... if the USPS ceases to exist, with whom would I ship my regular mail? (letters, namely).

If the Post Office ceased to exist, there would immediately be several competitors vying to deliver your mail, in all likelihood. Would it be as cheap as the post office? No. Since mail delivery has been subsidized by governments for years. But I have little doubt the competition would be fierce for the business.

ernest_t_bass;885974 wrote:There are ways around it. What I see them doing is shutting down the little town postal branches and the larger towns consuming them. I see it happening in Defiance county. Actually have a good friend who is the postmaster at a small branch, and it is up for shut down, along with some other small post offices. That right there is one way to "lay off."

A guy from my hometown who is a postal worker often discusses the post office inner workings on his FB page and he is constantly complaining about all the people who work there that do nothing but sit around. One problem is this: if you work a particular machine and it breaks down, union rules do not allow for you to do any other job. So, you go to the break room and sit your ass down until the machine is fixed. Nobody is allowed to just "help out" if one area becomes bogged down because of union rules. Everybody must do only their jobs and only in a certain way.

It's just one more reason unions have no place in the public sector. All they do is suck money down a rat hole when compared to the services the people get in return.

I only get about 2 items via mail a month that I need the rest is all junk. I pay and receive all my bills online. I might mail something 2-3 times a year if needed I'll just Fed Ex, UPS, etc...it.

Writerbuckeye;886115 wrote:If the Post Office ceased to exist, there would immediately be several competitors vying to deliver your mail, in all likelihood. Would it be as cheap as the post office? No. Since mail delivery has been subsidized by governments for years. But I have little doubt the competition would be fierce for the business.

I've wondered how much FedEx or UPS would charge to deliver daily mail. Considering they wouldn't have the union featherbedding and unproductive rules as noted in your other post, I think their rates would be very close to the current stamp costs. What if they were less???

i still pay all my bills etc through the mail. i am old fashioned trying to keep them in business!

BGFalcons82;886232 wrote:I've wondered how much FedEx or UPS would charge to deliver daily mail. Considering they wouldn't have the union featherbedding and unproductive rules as noted in your other post, I think their rates would be very close to the current stamp costs. What if they were less???

I'd like to see everyone in my town with a mailbox on their house to hand deliver local mail. Isn't that against the law now, or something like that? You can't put unstamped mail in there?

BGFalcons82;885541 wrote:Dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.

What does Lehman Bros have to do with the Postal Union? This thread is about how the USPS is trying to dive further into our collective pockets due to mismanagement, poor decisions, unaccountability, bad faith bargaining, and utter failure to control costs on their part.

I'm all for cutting the cord and seeing if the USPS can survive as a private enterprise. If they can't do the job for a reasonable price, it's time to go away and let others do the job. No more freakin bailouts. Step up or step out of the way. That's the 2 choices, USPS.

Quaker said unions had to do with all the major failures, public and private. So he brought it up.

But anyway, the postal service certainly needs restructuring including that part of the union contract obviously. You don't have to be a conservative to believe that.

QuakerOats;886054 wrote:Not that your point has merit

Not that your point was factually correct. It is silly to say, "Why is it that the common theme among all the major failures - both private and public -- seems to be unionism?" I do agree that all entities should have the opportunity to fail. However it is not just unionized entities that that have been deemed as too big (too politically connected or whatever) to fail. If I remember correctly AIG, BOA and other financial institutions were placed on that list too and there are not too many unions associated with those institutions.

Touche, Believer, Fannie and Freddie was a nice touch.

analogkid;886610 wrote:Not that your point was factually correct. It is silly to say, "Why is it that the common theme among all the major failures - both private and public -- seems to be unionism?" I do agree that all entities should have the opportunity to fail. However it is not just unionized entities that that have been deemed as too big (too politically connected or whatever) to fail. If I remember correctly AIG, BOA and other financial institutions were placed on that list too and there are not too many unions associated with those institutions.

Touche, Believer, Fannie and Freddie was a nice touch.

Just a little addendum to this conversation...if you find a city, county or state that's totally screwed up beyond belief and in debt, chances are excellent that it has been mostly run by Democrats for a long period of time, and public unions have been a powerful influence. Not saying it can't happen under Republicans, but it seems to happen much more frequently under Democrats. California, Illinois and New Jersey are state examples...Chicago, Youngstown, Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland and just about any major city in California are other examples.

As for private sector examples: the American auto industry was all but killed by union excess and influence, and it's not out of the woods yet. There's also a reason this country has very few steel mills, anymore, and unions had a lot to do with it.

No no no writer, it's all Bush's fault that those cities and states are failing. If he'd only redistributed billions more from the wealth creators to the wealth takers, they would be as hale as any other.

Jesus, even a thread where everyone agrees for the most part still has to derail into an off topic, partisan retard extravaganza.

How is it off topic to discuss the damage unions do when CLEARLY unions are a major player in the financial problems of the post office?

Writerbuckeye;886717 wrote:Just a little addendum to this conversation...if you find a city, county or state that's totally screwed up beyond belief and in debt, chances are excellent that it has been mostly run by Democrats for a long period of time, and public unions have been a powerful influence. Not saying it can't happen under Republicans, but it seems to happen much more frequently under Democrats. California, Illinois and New Jersey are state examples...Chicago, Youngstown, Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland and just about any major city in California are other examples.

As for private sector examples: the American auto industry was all but killed by union excess and influence, and it's not out of the woods yet. There's also a reason this country has very few steel mills, anymore, and unions had a lot to do with it.

Unions became too powerful and too demanding in and around the 1970's. They did cut their own throat through nothing more than greed. Unions were a great thing back in the late 1800's and through much of the early 20th Century though. The working conditions were deplorable and the pay was worse. People died at the age of 45....from the 60 hour work week in ridiculous work envorinments.

Up until the late 1910's, the government had many laws against collective bargaining. Just as it is today, the corporatacracy controlled the government and had the Judicial Department on their payroll. Sound familiar?

One of the very first notable businessman to understand the value of a healthy, happy, well paid worker, was none other than Henry Ford. The man was dead against unions, but broke off from the status quo of business owners of treating labor as nothing more than cost on a balance sheet. He literally doubled the pay of the rank and file during the first world war. And his business absolutely boomed.

Today, the only unions that are raking in the cash are that of the public sector. And I think the Postal Workers contract is horse radish....and the sooner they correct the baloney going on the better off they will be.

ernest_t_bass;886448 wrote:I'd like to see everyone in my town with a mailbox on their house to hand deliver local mail. Isn't that against the law now, or something like that? You can't put unstamped mail in there?

Yes it is illegal to put anything without postage in a mailbox. The Post office owns the inside of your mailbox and no part of the mailbox may be used for anything not bearing postage.

ernest_t_bass;886448 wrote:I'd like to see everyone in my town with a mailbox on their house to hand deliver local mail. Isn't that against the law now, or something like that? You can't put unstamped mail in there?

Like Skyhook mentioned, it is illegal to put unstamped mail or anything else in an external mailbox that is used to deliver mail from the USPS. It was never an issue for us since we only had a mailslot attached to our house, so there was no external mail. There is nothing to stop anyone from creating a separate "mailing" service as long as it differs from the the official service - there is a word for this, "couriering"

Glory Days;886408 wrote:i still pay all my bills etc through the mail. i am old fashioned trying to keep them in business!

That's certainly your prerogative but like many other OC posters, I also do 98% of my banking on-line. In fact my bank has a "Green Sense" program that encourages on-line banking by actually paying me to do it. Instead of investing $10 a month in postage stamps, I receive a $5 credit each month from my bank for hitting a certain amount of electronic transactions.

I write maybe one check a month.

No envelopes, no bills in the mailbox, no checkbook to carry around, no dead trees, and no overpriced stamps to peel & stick.

believer;887075 wrote: No envelopes, no bills in the mailbox, no checkbook to carry around, no dead trees, and no overpriced stamps to peel & stick.

haha and no dead trees...dont forget it takes electricity to run and keep the servers cool that do the online banking etc.

Glory Days;887095 wrote:haha and no dead trees...dont forget it takes electricity to run and keep the servers cool that do the online banking etc.

Always trade-offs at some opportunity cost.

Glory Days;887095 wrote:haha and no dead trees...dont forget it takes electricity to run and keep the servers cool that do the online banking etc.

lol Fair enough. Besides, I like dead tress. They keep me employed.

Writerbuckeye;886133 wrote:A guy from my hometown who is a postal worker often discusses the post office inner workings on his FB page and he is constantly complaining about all the people who work there that do nothing but sit around. One problem is this: if you work a particular machine and it breaks down, union rules do not allow for you to do any other job. So, you go to the break room and sit your ass down until the machine is fixed. Nobody is allowed to just "help out" if one area becomes bogged down because of union rules. Everybody must do only their jobs and only in a certain way.

It's just one more reason unions have no place in the public sector. All they do is suck money down a rat hole when compared to the services the people get in return.

When I worked for DFAS they had Union rules for the building services workers. They had specific people who moved around tables and chairs in conference rooms. This was their ONLY job. Anyway, if they were running behind and you had a conference scheduled to start and you tried to help, they would yell at you to not touch anything because both entities will get into trouble with the Union.

Always a WTF moment with me

LJ;888654 wrote:When I worked for DFAS they had Union rules for the building services workers. They had specific people who moved around tables and chairs in conference rooms. This was their ONLY job. Anyway, if they were running behind and you had a conference scheduled to start and you tried to help, they would yell at you to not touch anything because both entities will get into trouble with the Union.

Always a WTF moment with me

That's why I get a chuckle when the union folks refer to themselves as the "working man" - really? And the dieharders see no problem with this at all. Such an archaic idea....being as inefficient as possible.

Manhattan Buckeye;888668 wrote:That's why I get a chuckle when the union folks refer to themselves as the "working man" - really? And the dieharders see no problem with this at all. Such an archaic idea....being as inefficient as possible.

Trade shows in Chicago are always fun as we can't plug in our laptops, projectors, etc. We have to wait for the union electrician to do it.

believer;887698 wrote:lol Fair enough. Besides, I like dead tress. They keep me employed.

yeah i always wondered whenever i use the hand dryers in bathrooms that claims to save trees or whatever, how much electricity it uses instead of the paper towels

Glory Days;888772 wrote:yeah i always wondered whenever i use the hand dryers in bathrooms that claims to save trees or whatever, how much electricity it uses instead of the paper towels

A fraction of the cost. Both dispensers require manufacturing, so that's a push. In most areas the heating ducts are the same that heat/AC the facility, so in a sense that cost is minimal, the production and delivery of paper is incredibly costly.