well your own definition recognizes the necessity for governmental aid. it says that all ppl have the right to have the means to have a family if they so choose. that suggests some sort of economic equality or support, so . .

No where in the World Heath Organization's definition of 'reproductive rights' does it mandate that it is the government's obligation to provide aid. That's part of this country's problem right there... everyone feels the onus is on the government to support them. When are we, as individuals, going to step up and take the onus? Just because the government provides aid doesn't mean we all are guaranteed to aid / should be collecting aid.

You're reading the definition as an OR statement; not as an AND statement. Just because ppl have the right to have a family does not mean they CAN/SHOULD have a family. There's still the RESPONSIBILITY aspect/issue where the individuals need to make sure that having a child is the RESPONSIBLE thing to do.

And the idea of economic equality is a farce. It doesn't exist. People are different. We're clearly not all created equally - some are smarter than others, and some are athletically more gifted than others. Yes the idea of economic equality is nice - and probably something we should strive for as a world of people living together - but the reality is PEOPLE. AREN'T. EQUAL.

Crimson streak;871511 wrote:I'll admit I had food stamps for about six months when my gf was pregnant. At the time I just moved to pa and was having trouble finding a job and she lost her job. He'll I worked at taco bell for 6 months till I could find something better. My checks barely covered rent, car payment, insurance, cell phone. I ended up getting a better job through a help from a friend and soon as I got a job we dropped the food stamps. I was always raised to not live off the state and do things yourself. But he'll everything worked out I'm 21 and have a nice well paying job, and so does my fiancé.

Crimson streak;871511 wrote:I'll admit I had food stamps for about six months when my gf was pregnant. At the time I just moved to pa and was having trouble finding a job and she lost her job. He'll I worked at taco bell for 6 months till I could find something better. My checks barely covered rent, car payment, insurance, cell phone. I ended up getting a better job through a help from a friend and soon as I got a job we dropped the food stamps. I was always raised to not live off the state and do things yourself. But he'll everything worked out I'm 21 and have a nice well paying job, and so does my fiancé.

Crimson streak;871511 wrote:I'll admit I had food stamps for about six months when my gf was pregnant. At the time I just moved to pa and was having trouble finding a job and she lost her job. He'll I worked at taco bell for 6 months till I could find something better. My checks barely covered rent, car payment, insurance, cell phone. I ended up getting a better job through a help from a friend and soon as I got a job we dropped the food stamps. I was always raised to not live off the state and do things yourself. But he'll everything worked out I'm 21 and have a nice well paying job, and so does my fiancé.

sportchampps;871554 wrote:My old neighbors worked the system. The boyfriend had a job that paid around 100k a year and his girlfriend had 4 children and was on welfare. They owned a nice house that they didnt take care of and she was always telling us she wanted more kids so she got even more welfare and food stamps. They never married so they could keep riding the system

Crimson streak;871511 wrote:I'll admit I had food stamps for about six months when my gf was pregnant. At the time I just moved to pa and was having trouble finding a job and she lost her job. He'll I worked at taco bell for 6 months till I could find something better. My checks barely covered rent, car payment, insurance, cell phone. I ended up getting a better job through a help from a friend and soon as I got a job we dropped the food stamps. I was always raised to not live off the state and do things yourself. But he'll everything worked out I'm 21 and have a nice well paying job, and so does my fiancé.

is this based on your personal opinion or facts? Because your analytic processes make it hard to debate what your saying. there is a difference between correlation and causation. Also, if what your saying is true, then you are more or less saying that poor ppl are inherently lack character. Next thing comes social darwinism and we all know where that ends. Also, you also might want to reread the definition from the WHO again if your critical reading skills leave you with that conclusion. obviously this outrages you and I am sure that some of your concerns are valid, but throwing about generalizations based on what you think isn't going to change anyone's mind, let alone lead to reform . . .

FACT: 46M ppl are on food stamps.
FACT: There are poor people who legitimately use food stamps.
FACT: There are people who abuse the system and collect & use food stamps dishonestly.
FACT: Correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other
FACT: While it is not the case that correlation is causation, simply stating their nonequivalence omits information about their relationship; meaning, correlation may not be causation, but it can be a hint.
FACT: Just because correlation does not automatically imply causation does not mean that 2 variables that have a high correlation can't have a cause.

I'm not saying POOR people lack character, I'm saying SOME people lack character (hence the "come on people" comment). There's plenty of people who collect food stamps that shouldn't be. Just because one collects food stamps doesn't mean one is inherently poor. I know far too many people that collect food stamps that don't live that hard/rough of lives.

Yes, I am outraged by the idea of people scoring a free ride off of my hard work. I'm all for being taxed and having that go to the people who truly need the help, but I'm completely against the idea of being taxed so my hard earnings can go to some momma who's popping out children as if she just picked the winning lotto numbers.

There is no incentive for someone to go out and educate themselves / work harder when they can simply stay at home and collect unemployment & food stamps and make more then they would if they picked up a minimum wage job. That's the issue.

How would you feel if I just all the sudden stopped trying to stride for upward mobility and I just sat back and collected unemployment / food stamps? ...And you were paying for it.

rydawg5;872181 wrote:telling someone they shouldnt reproduce will make everyone who can feel supreme to them. The inferior non-breeders would be mocked and persacuted and probably will be on the end of hate crimes, killed or discriminated.

ialways side with equality, compassion, and freedom with the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

LJ;872240 wrote:The system is so ****ed up., My buddy makes $30k per year and has a wife and a kid (the wife is just now getting back to work, had some problems during pregnancy). When she worked they made like 60k. She loses her job due to no FMLA. She has the kid, he applied for food stamps "nope you make way too much". Too much?! He makes 30k with 2 dependants!!! How the hell is that "way too much?!" those are the people that need it the most!

Scarlet_Buckeye;872184 wrote:Please explain to me why if someone chooses to reproduce and have a child, and they can't support them, why it's my responsibility to [support their child]?

bigkahuna;872264 wrote:Complete and utter bs. My guess is, they would have gone off of the food stamps as soon as she went back to work.

I don't know if drug testing will make a difference, but I think that looking at the household in general could. No more of the examples above where the bf/gf makes a bunch of money, but the other one is on welfare.

I run a latchkey business that charges people based on income. In order to pay a lower rate, they have to provide income documentation for everyone living in the household. I have several families where the parents shacked up together but aren't married. They tried to get a lower rate by just providing mom's income. Well, JFS makes a house visit before they'll provide aid/make up for the difference. They find out that dad is living their also and deny them the additional aid. They come back to me and pay the original rate.

I think if the welfare department did this, they would be able to kick some people off of it. I'm talking more along the lines of including everyone in the household income regardless of marital status.

Scarlet_Buckeye;872277 wrote:Idk if the government really has the time to scope out and personally visit the 46M people on welfare and see how much money their respective households are br9inging in, and then determine whether or not that person should be receiving aid.