dlazz;858778 wrote:As a recent graduate, College is indeed a scam.

If I could go back and redo the past 6 years, I'd go to a trade school in a heartbeat.

I am a pretty recent graduate also.

It wasn't a scam for me. If I went into thinking that a college degree is automatically going to get me a job...then it is a scam (or more like my fault). If people think a college degree equals a job that pays $60,000-100,000+, then that's a huge mistake. It's education. It helps prepare you for certain positions. It helps build contacts and connections.

That being said, I do think it'd be nice if there were more possibilities outside of higher education. Trade schools are good...but they can't get a teacher prepared for teaching (although they could if it were allowed). But, trade schools have their limitations just like 4-year institutions do. It's good to study something that's broad (to make you more well rounded when trying to figure out what you want to do) but it's also good to be more narrow in your study (to prepare you for that career that you know you want).

Very likely, yes.

Higher education, worth the cost?

Yes.

I have no proof, but I have a strong feeling that a college degree does not automatically represent what it did 25 years ago - there are a --lot-- of watered-down degree programs out there. We routinely get applications from business-school graduates who have perhaps one semester of college algebra and/or have never turned in a paper with more than ten pages in their entire collegiate career. I particularly recall a screening-level interview with a young lady who ranted about a professor who kept "changing the rules" of a case study project. Frankly - that's exactly what a professional manager is supposed to able to handle.

In the last five years, my company has ceased interviewing entry-level candidates who don't come from a list of schools whose programs we trust and whose graduates have performed well for us. The list varies by specialty, but the Insurance/Financial/Business school list contains about 45 schools (including all but three of the twelve Big Ten schools).

Cat Food Flambe';859147 wrote:In the last five years, my company has ceased interviewing entry-level candidates who don't come from a list of schools whose programs we trust and whose graduates have performed well for us. The list varies by specialty, but the Insurance/Financial/Business school list contains about 45 schools (including all but three of the twelve Big Ten schools).

Which three Big Ten schools?

gorocks99;859148 wrote:Which three Big Ten schools?

Im going to guess Michigan State, Iowa, and Minnesota. . 45 schools doesn't seem like a lot though.

I was gonna guess Nebraska, Iowa and Purdue.

Nebraska and Iowa have to be locks. I'll throw in Michigan State as my 3rd guess.

I actually thought about Nebraska for the 3rd one but I had to say Minny just for you gorocks .

Nebraska is the worst Big Ten school, then Michigan State, then Iowa.

ccrunner609;859299 wrote:is higher education worth it? Yep I was offered $8000 to work 50 minutes a day for 9 months.....

GoRocks nailed it.

Bear in mind, we're just looking at business programs - and not being on our list doesn't necessarily mean it's not a good school. Geography plays a role, as does the number of graduates that a school turns out each year. Insurance and financial companies are heavily oriented toward about two dozen metro areas in the US, and other than the top-rank MBA grads being hired for $100K, most kids prefer to stay fairly close to home. Put another way, Montana State might have perfectly good business program, but we're not going to send out a screening/interview team to Bozeman to look at three kids for positions in Ohio and Michigan when our existing staff in those two cities have local access to a hundred good candidates from Ohio State, Case Western, Michigan State and Michigan.

One school that surprises me - we have an amazing number of DePaul alumni in our ranks -and not just in Chicago.

I Wear Pants;858461 wrote:I do not want less learned teachers. Our education system is shitty enough already.

It's shitty in bad areas because of bad kids.

On topic, I don't necessarily believe that higher education is a scam, I do think that the forced 4 years of at least 1/4 - 1/2 of BS classes is a scam. No one who wants to do business should have to take art, music, sociology, some sort of crap science, etc. The whole broaden your horizons thing is a garbage excuse for it.

Glory Days;858451 wrote:dont forget, teachers here also need a masters degree within so many years.

Not anymore on the state oh Ohio.

ccrunner609;859299 wrote:is higher education worth it? Yep I was offered $8000 to work 50 minutes a day for 9 months.....

$8,000?

Depends on what degree a person is pursuing. This isn't a black and white issue, there is varying factors that determine the answer. I will say this though, I believe (as others have mentioned) that colleges throw in a lot of unnecessary elective requirements just to make more money.

1. I was high most of my education ... . sorry Higher Education wrong topic...

I graduated from BGSU with a double major in education .. with the GI Bill and my disability comp I had no debt after graduation
I started my career and taught for a few years quite to move onto a different profession in business.

Was my college worth it ...... The cost does not equal the knowledge gained...

Whoever said, "A Masters is the new Bachelors" hit it spot on. 20/30 years ago, it wasn't common for every fucking kid to go to college. Now, some of the most retarded kids are going to college, going to half ass classes (if they go) and escaping with a degree. Most employers know this, therefore, they want more qualified people.

fan_from_texas;858544 wrote:I can't speak to others, but I can speak with some degree of certainty to law: unless you are going to a top 14 school or are going to a tier 1 school with significant scholarship money, it most assuredly is a terrible financial move. Most people going to law school today are making an absolutely terrible financial decision. Period. End of discussion.

Fan From Texas is SPOT ON with this statement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Going to law school at the present time is a HORRIBLE decision. Anyone with any ties to the legal field will concur.

ernest_t_bass;859658 wrote:Whoever said, "A Masters is the new Bachelors" hit it spot on. 20/30 years ago, it wasn't common for every fucking kid to go to college. Now, some of the most retarded kids are going to college, going to half ass classes (if they go) and escaping with a degree. Most employers know this, therefore, they want more qualified people.

Certainly there are a lot more younger people that have a college dregree than older (as a percentage of population) - but it's still not the majority. About 42% of people 44 and under have an associate's, bachelor's or advanced dregree. Closer to probably 35%-38% for the pop 45+ (don't have the weighted sum). Here's the table from the census:

25-34: 41% (9% associate's, 23% bachelor's, 9% advanced)
35-44: 43% (10% associate's, 21% bachelor's, 11% advanced)
45-54: 40% (11% associate's, 19% bachelor's, 10% advanced)
55-64: 41% (9% associate's, 19% bachelor's, 13% advanced)
65-74: 30% (6% associate's, 14% bachelor's, 11% advanced)
75+: 23% (5% associate's, 11% bachelor's, 7% advanced)

gorocks99;859687 wrote:Certainly there are a lot more younger people that have a college dregree than older (as a percentage of population) - but it's still not the majority. About 42% of people 44 and under have an associate's, bachelor's or advanced dregree. Closer to probably 35%-38% for the pop 45+ (don't have the weighted sum). Here's the table from the census:

25-34: 41% (9% associate's, 23% bachelor's, 9% advanced)
35-44: 43% (10% associate's, 21% bachelor's, 11% advanced)
45-54: 40% (11% associate's, 19% bachelor's, 10% advanced)
55-64: 41% (9% associate's, 19% bachelor's, 13% advanced)
65-74: 30% (6% associate's, 14% bachelor's, 11% advanced)
75+: 23% (5% associate's, 11% bachelor's, 7% advanced)

I wonder what those numbers would look like if they were broken down by geography.

Is higher education worth the cost? Let me answer it like this...


Do I think I "earned" or "received" $128,000+ worth of "knowledge" (i.e., the rough cost of attending a 4 yr private University)... In a word, No.

However, I do believe that if you want a good job, you really need, or should I say, should go to college. I think it's one of those formality issues. Since everyone does/did it, you pretty much have to. Besides, you do learn some great life lessons while attending - i.e., how to live with a complete stranger, how to socialize and fit in amongst a group of diverse individuals, preparation to critically think and assess new issues / challenges, etc.

Glory Days;859712 wrote:I wonder what those numbers would look like if they were broken down by geography.

This doesn't seem to align with the figures I just posted, probably for definitional reasons, but for 2008, age 25+ from the Census site:

Bachelor's degree or more/Advanced degree or more
United States 27.7/10.2
Alabama 22.0/7.7
Alaska 27.3/9.7
Arizona 25.1/9.2
Arkansas 18.8/6.3
California 29.6/10.8
Colorado 35.6/12.7
Connecticut 35.6 /15.2
Delaware 27.5/10.8
District of Columbia 48.2/26.7
Florida 25.8/9.0
Georgia 27.5/9.7
Hawaii 29.1/9.9
Idaho 24.0/7.4
Illinois 29.9/11.2
Indiana 22.9/8.1
Iowa 24.3/7.3
Kansas 29.6/10.1
Kentucky 19.7/7.9
Louisiana 20.3/6.5
Maine 25.4 /8.9
Maryland 35.2/15.4
Massachusetts 38.1/16.4
Michigan 24.7/9.4
Minnesota 31.5/10.0
Mississippi 19.4/6.8
Missouri 25.0/9.1
Montana 27.1/8.4
Nebraska 27.1/8.6
Nevada 21.9/7.0
New Hampshire 33.3/12.0
New Jersey 34.4/12.8
New Mexico 24.7/10.7
New York 31.9/13.8
North Carolina 26.1/8.6
North Dakota 26.9/6.6
Ohio 24.1/8.7
Oklahoma 22.2/7.2
Oregon 28.1/10.1
Pennsylvania 26.3/10.0
Rhode Island 30.0/11.3
South Carolina 23.7/8.5
South Dakota 25.1/7.3
Tennessee 22.9/8.0
Texas 25.3/8.3
Utah 29.1/9.4
Vermont 32.1/12.2
Virginia 33.7/13.8
Washington 30.7/10.9
West Virginia 17.1/6.7
Wisconsin 25.7/8.6
Wyoming 23.6/7.9

The Northeast and Eastern Seaboard tend to lead the way in educational attainment percentage - Vermont, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia, and DC. A few other high ones include Colorado, Illinois, Washington state and Minnesota. Low end of the spectrum are Nevada, Kentucky, Mississippi, Arkansas, and West Virginia.

Probably not surprisingly, the states with the highest GDP per capita tend to have a higher percentage of people with bachelor's degrees. Vermont (30), Massachusetts (6), New Hampshire (22), Rhode Island (26), Connecticut (4), New York (7), New Jersey (8), Maryland (13), Virginia (9), DC (1), Colorado (11), Illinois (15), Washington (10), Minnesota (14). Versus, Nevada (23), Kentucky (43), Mississippi (51), Arkansas (45), West Virginia (49). Although that's a chicken-and-egg scenario, for sure. The highest paying jobs are in the states pumping out the biggest GDP, thus attracting the most college-educated persons.