buckeyebebe quote: "What really matters is the 'team and developing the kids as individuals"

That should be the goal of every coach. Having enough insight to use them properly should also be their goal.

Great point Knight.....

knight56 wrote: I have no issues with coaches and programs who predominately run if that's the cards they've been dealt talent wise. It's the programs that ignore talent to suit their system. A perfect example of programs and coaches who master the use of their talent is Kettering Alter and Mt. Union. Their system will fluctuate from year to year depending on the talent they have at their disposal.

The funny this is, I think Mooney's 3 state championships this decade were all run with different offenses.

When Mooney had a speedy QB AND a speedy RB, they would run a spread speed option out of the shotgun. This year, with a speedy RB but a QB who was not nearly as fast, they ran a traditional one-back set and ran the option and stretch. They tried to run the pistol week one but it didn't work well (they struggled against a good Boardman team) so they switched to the more traditional offense and steamrolled through week 15.

Steubenville has always had a balanced offense. Over the past five years we have won two state championships and one runner-up trophy with quarterbacks who could pass and run. Our two starting quarterbacks during that period have both gotten Div. I scholarships at teams that will both be putting a quarterback into the NFL this year.

Nobody thinks Big Red's football is stagnant.

september63 wrote: As a fan of your (pick any) school. So you want to produce QB's and WR's with big numbers? Or do you want to win championships? The coaches that won state titles won by using their players the best way they saw fit to win!!

I cant believe I am about to say this.

I agree with this.

Even if it is becoming stagnant, what difference does it really make?

I totally agree with the concept of using your players to the best of their abilities. Just be smart enough to recognize other options when you have the talent. Too many coaches are locking into a system because it worked for someone else and ignoring the talent they have available. Public schools don't have the luxury of recruiting certain players to fit a certain system.

knight56 wrote: I totally agree with the concept of using your players to the best of their abilities. Just be smart enough to recognize other options when you have the talent. Too many coaches are locking into a system because it worked for someone else and ignoring the talent they have available. Public schools don't have the luxury of recruiting certain players to fit a certain system.

I'm totally on board with this.
What drives me nuts are coaches (usually the old school guys), that won't let go of that "we do what we do" mentality. Too many times there are teams that are primarily running offenses, that do well during the regular season, but once they meet a team in the playoffs that can shut down their rushing attack, they are done because they haven't thrown the ball much all season, so therefore they can't do it effectively when they need too.

As for kids getting left behind bcause they are stuck in a scheme that doesn't feature their skill set. Well call me naive, but I believe that if a player has the talent, the recruiters will find him!

Perfect example of how wrong some of you are...
Avon Lake- They run the ball probably 85-90% of the time every game but they have a 6'4 reciever who runs a 4.6 40. So on they plays they dont run he usually gets the baall going deep. Basically IF COACHES HAVE GREAT SKILL PLAYERS THEY WILL FIND A WAY TO USEM THEM. No matter what offense they may run.

Mooney44Cards wrote: I didn't realize there was a competition between Ohio and the other states on who has the most skill position players?

Seriously, who cares? Ohio is a breeding ground for RBs.

And quality LBs.

Con_Alma wrote: I have never equated running the ball and a team primarily doing so as stagnant. The triple option, the vere and the midline are wonderful things to watch when done properly. More and more teams are putting it in.

WOW!! The vere offense, we ran that when I played in the late 70's at Canton Central Catholic. Very effective with the right QB. Thought I'd never hear that being used again.

High School stats do not equate into athletic scholarships...... You have to produce at Camps and Showcases. You can have all the stats and state titles you want but don't attend these camps and you are staying home. You play Hs sports for the name on the front of the Jersey.

knight56 wrote: As reported by another site I won't mention. Four of the states title winners only threw a combined 12 passes during their title games. This style may be prevalent in Ohio, but I personally feel we are falling further and further behind the rest of the nation in developing certain skill positions. How many if any QB's or WR's have been listed in ESPNs top 100 over the last few years?

Now that the spread has invaded almost every program in the state, I think you will see more and more QB's and WR's on some of these lists.

I think you are mistaken in thinking that the running game is prevalent in Ohio. Look at Mooney's playoff run for example:

Filed - spread- 42-14
Hubbard - spread-55-0
Poland - likes to run, but still usually uses 3 WR and no FB most of the time-24-7
Steubenville - spread-45-7
DeSales - RUN-35-7

The point is threefold.

Point one. Tons of teams in Ohio are running the spread, with varying levels of ability and success. Wait about 10 years, and they will get better and better. Kids that are in 5th and 6th grade now that run the spread will be the ones that start tipping the scales.

Point two. These are high school kids and the spread is NOT easy. It can be very complicated. The run game is much simpler and requires repetition more than anything else.

Point three. Why were there more running teams in the state finals and why were they more effective? It's OHIO and it's COLD!! When it's freezing cold outside, you can almost always bet on a team that can run it down the other teams throat and demoralize them. I believe Glenville made the leap this year because they finally were able to line up with an I formation and run the ball to salt away some wins.

Mooney44Cards wrote:

knight56 wrote: I have no issues with coaches and programs who predominately run if that's the cards they've been dealt talent wise. It's the programs that ignore talent to suit their system. A perfect example of programs and coaches who master the use of their talent is Kettering Alter and Mt. Union. Their system will fluctuate from year to year depending on the talent they have at their disposal.

The funny this is, I think Mooney's 3 state championships this decade were all run with different offenses.

When Mooney had a speedy QB AND a speedy RB, they would run a spread speed option out of the shotgun. This year, with a speedy RB but a QB who was not nearly as fast, they ran a traditional one-back set and ran the option and stretch. They tried to run the pistol week one but it didn't work well (they struggled against a good Boardman team) so they switched to the more traditional offense and steamrolled through week 15.

Totally agreed. The offense has changed quite a bit from Stoops to McCarthy to Johnson to McCarthy to Zordich. The real key to the successful teams was having 2 threats out of the backfield. With Stoops there was a little more passing, but Burney was the only real option out of the backfield. With Kyle McCarthy it was a lot of single back and Nate Burney, but both could run well. With Johnson it was a ton of shotgun and back to a little more passing, but still 2 threats with Burney and Johnson running. With McCarthy it was almost all running and many 3 back sets with Hill, Zordich and Beachum all in the backfield together. With Zordich at QB, once he felt comfortable keeping it on the option, the running game with Heard, Vinopal and Griffin opened up for good. Without the threat of him running, see 2008, the team was far too simple to defend.

The real constant has been a conservative running game and the Defense.

The key right now is to run the ball well and have a defense that is able to stop the run. Make the other team pass to beat you.

sonofsam wrote: The key right now is to run the ball well and have a defense that is able to stop the run. Make the other team pass to beat you.

and it always will be

^^^
Agreed...but what's interesting is that the key is not necessarily how many yards per cary you get as opposed to how many rushing attempts you have per game.

I heard Phil Simms taking about this on the radio the other day as it relates to the NFL.

^^^

Which generally equates to TOP and wearing down the other team.

buckeyebebe wrote:

knight56 wrote: How about the kids who have the potential to play college ball in certain skill positions that will never get showcased? You can't tell me Florida, Calif and Texas has better skill players than Ohio does.

They transfer to a school who pass, pass, passes, i.e. St X, Iggy, Mooney, Coffman...What really matters is the 'team and developing the kids as individuals, not to be a minor league for colleges.

Did you see a Mooney game all year? Not alot of passing.

Let California, Florida, and Texas have the skill positions at the college level.

Ohio will continue to produce amazingly talented running backs, linebackers, and stud offensive and defensive lineman.