O-Trap;699436 wrote:Nah. It's just a chemical process in the brain.

Plus, how could you believe in love? There is no empirical evidence of its existence!!!

Here's a fun one: Do you believe in the inherency of "good" and "bad?"

My original plan for this thread was to crack jokes the entire time, but if you must!

Unlike most, my beliefs aren't based on the lack of empirical evidence, but I'll save that for a later date!

Do I believe in the idea of inherent "good" and "bad"? Hmmmm? The generalness of this question makes me feel like this is an Otrap... I mean trap , but I'll play along. Note: I'm doing this knowing I'm not as versed in the philosophical field as you, but I hope my explanation will let you better understand why I believe what I do. Then you can tell me why I'm wrong

I've only just started giving this idea any real thought, maybe about a year or so. I've been internally going back and forth on this topic.
I
f your idea of good is any action that benefits the longevity of the human race and bad as any that is a detriment (in terms of evolution) then yes, but outside of that, where I stand right now, I'd have to say No!

When I think about the inherency of good or bad, my first thought is of a new born baby. When I think of a new born baby I think innocent, neither good nor bad, just a block of clay ready to be molded by his/her environment. Christians on the other hand tells us that we're all born of sin & with sin (does that mean we're born bad? IDK, but that's pretty much what I've been told and the impression I get), to me that's just asinine! So in that respect I'd have to say No, I don't believe in the inherency of good and bad.

Bigred1995;699546 wrote:My original plan for this thread was to crack jokes the entire time, but if you must!

Eh, I was just ribbing you back.

Bigred1995;699546 wrote:Unlike most, my beliefs aren't based on the lack of empirical evidence, but I'll save that for a later date!

Another "can open ... worms EVERYWHERE!"

Bigred1995;699546 wrote:Do I believe in the idea of inherent "good" and "bad"? Hmmmm? The generalness of this question makes me feel like this is an Otrap... I mean trap , but I'll play along. Note: I'm doing this knowing I'm not as versed in the philosophical field as you, but I hope my explanation will let you better understand why I believe what I do. Then you can tell me why I'm wrong

There's a difference between errancy of logic and errancy of conclusion. I can't tell you, resolutely, that you are wrong. When all is said and done, I can weigh what evidence I think exists, but the question assumes (or neglects) a lot of variables. The "generalness" was to allow you to extrapolate if you felt so led.

I like free thinking, so I hate to pin down a question.

Bigred1995;699546 wrote:I've only just started giving this idea any real thought, maybe about a year or so. I've been internally going back and forth on this topic.

If your idea of good is any action that benefits the longevity of the human race and bad as any that is a detriment (in terms of evolution) then yes, but outside of that, where I stand right now, I'd have to say No!

I appreciate the honesty.

Not sure I could see a case for asserting that not preserving the species is inherently "bad." Still, it's a thought.

Bigred1995;699546 wrote:When I think about the inherency of good or bad, my first thought is of a new born baby. When I think of a new born baby I think innocent, neither good nor bad, just a block of clay ready to be molded by his/her environment. Christians on the other hand tells us that we're all born of sin & with sin (does that mean we're born bad? IDK, but that's pretty much what I've been told and the impression I get), to me that's just asinine! So in that respect I'd have to say No, I don't believe in the inherency of good and bad.

It's more that we are born imperfect ... kind of like saying we're all born with a genetic defect ... a predisposition to self-serving behavior that transcends any sense of moral. That's all. It's the belief that if all ramifications were removed (social, legal, instructional), man would eventually choose actions most self-serving, regardless of the effect on others.

O-Trap;699671 wrote:Eh, I was just ribbing you back.



Another "can open ... worms EVERYWHERE!"



There's a difference between errancy of logic and errancy of conclusion. I can't tell you, resolutely, that you are wrong. When all is said and done, I can weigh what evidence I think exists, but the question assumes (or neglects) a lot of variables. The "generalness" was to allow you to extrapolate if you felt so led.

I like free thinking, so I hate to pin down a question.



I appreciate the honesty.

Not sure I could see a case for asserting that not preserving the species is inherently "bad." Still, it's a thought.



It's more that we are born imperfect ... kind of like saying we're all born with a genetic defect ... a predisposition to self-serving behavior that transcends any sense of moral. That's all. It's the belief that if all ramifications were removed (social, legal, instructional), man would eventually choose actions most self-serving, regardless of the effect on others.

Self-serving as a species or as individuals?

DeyDurkie5;699523 wrote:here I'll answer it for you skyhook..

"and jesus said everyone is flawed, follow me and you are shown the light" Bullshit 13:13

deydurkie, you just need faith and the bible and jesus will guide you.

I think that is where free will comes into play Dey. The Bible and trying to follow a "Christ-like" life are what are SUPPOSED to guide us (Christians) sure, but when you take free will into consideration sometimes people make decisions contrary to how we are supposed to live. The "crack head' made the decision to take the drugs. It's free will baby.

Bigred1995;699700 wrote:Self-serving as a species or as individuals?

Yes.

Buckeyechick;699715 wrote:I think that is where free will comes into play Dey. The Bible and trying to follow a "Christ-like" life are what are SUPPOSED to guide us (Christians) sure, but when you take free will into consideration sometimes people make decisions contrary to how we are supposed to live. The "crack head' made the decision to take the drugs. It's free will baby.

so god controls you, but there is something called free will that gives humans a free pass to do whatever they want and go against god's wishes? get the fuck out of here with this. If I told you harry potter was real, you just needed to believe you would call me retarded right?

DeyDurkie5;700027 wrote:so god controls you, but there is something called free will that gives humans a free pass to do whatever they want and go against god's wishes? get the fuck out of here with this. If I told you harry potter was real, you just needed to believe you would call me retarded right?

Dude, hate to break this to you, but Harry Potter is real; I found just 4 listing for him in about 2 seconds...

DeyDurkie5;700027 wrote:so god controls you, but there is something called free will that gives humans a free pass to do whatever they want and go against god's wishes? get the fuck out of here with this. If I told you harry potter was real, you just needed to believe you would call me retarded right?

"Everything is permissible"- but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible- but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others."

1 Cor 10: 23,24

In other words you have the freewill to do whatever you want does not mean it is going to work out well for you or that there will not be consequences if you make the wrong choices.
The Bible gives you instructions on what WILL work out for you in the long run. It's your choice whether you take that instruction.

Bigred1995;700067 wrote:Dude, hate to break this to you, but Harry Potter is real; I found just 4 listing for him in about 2 seconds...

LMAO!

Skyhook79;700112 wrote:"Everything is permissible"- but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible- but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others."

1 Cor 10: 23,24

In other words you have the freewill to do whatever you want does not mean it is going to work out well for you or that there will not be consequences if you make the wrong choices.
The Bible gives you instructions on what WILL work out for you in the long run. It's your choice whether you take that instruction.

Why do you keep quoting the bible? It's a fiction novel, might as well quote Dianetics.

sleeper;700193 wrote:Why do you keep quoting the bible? It's a fiction novel, might as well quote Dianetics.

Because 1 Corinthians Chapter 10 verse 23&24 are not in the Scientolgy handbook.

Why is it that anytime something good happens to people, it must be the work of god and then when anything bad happens then it is because you have not followed the path of god or god is just trying to make you stronger.Someone hits the lottery they thank god because he was watching out for them, someone gets hit by a train and dies then it is because god needed them to come home and help him.People really need to get a life.

password;700237 wrote:Why is it that anytime something good happens to people, it must be the work of god and then when anything bad happens then it is because you have not followed the path of god or god is just trying to make you stronger.Someone hits the lottery they thank god because he was watching out for them, someone gets hit by a train and dies then it is because god needed them to come home and help him.People really need to get a life.

The story of the Woodcutter I think relates to what you are asking but by all means read the other stories also.

http://www.maxlucado.com/pdf/woodcutters.wisdom.pdf

Just because some people may say those things does not mean that is how God see's it. God's wisdom is way beyond ours.

password;700237 wrote:Why is it that anytime something good happens to people, it must be the work of god and then when anything bad happens then it is because you have not followed the path of god or god is just trying to make you stronger.Someone hits the lottery they thank god because he was watching out for them, someone gets hit by a train and dies then it is because god needed them to come home and help him.People really need to get a life.

Truly I think the same thing about those who feel the need to put down others for believing in God (get a life). I don't trash those for not believing don't trash me for believing!! It boggles my mind why some people feel the need to put others down.

Buckeyechick;700340 wrote:Truly I think the same thing about those who feel the need to put down others for believing in God (get a life). I don't trash those for not believing don't trash me for believing!! It boggles my mind why some people feel the need to put others down.

I don't put others down for trying to live for something that has never been proven to exist.
I wish I could understand what people actually get from following and wanting to please their church.Why should you give your money and possessions to a church, so the head of the church can live for free off your suffering and hard work.The people pay for the church and the rectory to be built,maintained and don't forget about the food,cars and clothing for the priest,preacher or minister.

Please explain to me how this is fair and good for you.

password;700384 wrote:I don't put others down for trying to live for something that has never been proven to exist.
I wish I could understand what people actually get from following and wanting to please their church.Why should you give your money and possessions to a church, so the head of the church can live for free off your suffering and hard work.The people pay for the church and the rectory to be built,maintained and don't forget about the food,cars and clothing for the priest,preacher or minister.

Please explain to me how this is fair and good for you.

Christians do not do things to please their church, at least they shouldn't. They do because they love Jesus. As far as the Preacher working for free, that is just not correct. Preachers put in a lot of work and are held to an even higher standard by God because they are responsible for teaching the word of God with truth. The Church needs money to operate, I do not think anyone would dispute that. If your not a follower of Christ maybe you would not understand that. People in a Union pay union dues, Union bosses have large salaries, they tend to their "flocks" needs. People in the Lions Club pay dues, Lions Club International have several top Executives that make large salaries and help the poor with buying eye glasses. The Church does some of the same things with its offerings. Some of it goes to pay salaries,some to pay costs of operating a building and some goes to mission work to help those in need.
People that Love Christ are willing to give their time,money and other resources to further his kingdom here on Earth.

Matthew 25:31 -46 sums up our responsibility in the area of giving.

Skyhook79;700468 wrote:Christians do not do things to please their church, at least they shouldn't. They do because they love Jesus. As far as the Preacher working for free, that is just not correct. Preachers put in a lot of work and are held to an even higher standard by God because they are responsible for teaching the word of God with truth. The Church needs money to operate, I do not think anyone would dispute that. If your not a follower of Christ maybe you would not understand that. People in a Union pay union dues, Union bosses have large salaries, they tend to their "flocks" needs. People in the Lions Club pay dues, Lions Club International have several top Executives that make large salaries and help the poor with buying eye glasses. The Church does some of the same things with its offerings. Some of it goes to pay salaries,some to pay costs of operating a building and some goes to mission work to help those in need.
People that Love Christ are willing to give their time,money and other resources to further his kingdom here on Earth.
t's
Matthew 25:31 -46 sums up our responsibility in the area of giving.

there you go again with the bible. it's not making you look any smarter skyhook, give me something other than the bible

I dunno. This weekend I have seen the light. At the state wrestling meet, one of the competitors in bout #666 had the last name of Gott (which is also the German word for "god"). He won that match, meaning Gott/god won the devil's number match.*

IT'S A SIGN!!!!!! (or at least more relevant to today's society than some old book which, as people here have stated, has parts that should be ignored due to how they are concerned with human laws of the time.)

*On the other hand, Gott finished third, as he did lose one match in the semis. That could be taken as a sign of human reason having the ability to overcome superstition. This is a more complicated issue than I'd thought...