tsst_fballfan;688845 wrote:In some ways, yes they can be! This thread subject being an example.

my brain hurts.

I Wear Pants;688848 wrote:Some disrespectful jerks != the entire populous of good colleges.

[sarcasm]Yes that is exactly what I stated verbatim[/sarcasm]

Sarcasm aside. What I meant was good colleges and good for the country are not explicitly synonymous. Just because they are good at teaching subject matter does not compulsorily equate to the creation of good citizens. :shrugs:

tcarrier32;688857 wrote:my brain hurts.

I am sorry for your pain. Perhaps Columbia can't ease it.

tsst_fballfan;688858 wrote:[sarcasm]Yes that is exactly what I stated verbatim[/sarcasm]

Sarcasm aside. What I meant was good colleges and good for the country are not explicitly synonymous. Just because they are good at teaching subject matter does not compulsorily equate to the creation of good citizens. :shrugs:

Colleges aren't designed to make good citizens. They're designed to teach people.

I Wear Pants;688960 wrote:Colleges aren't designed to make good citizens. They're designed to teach people.

Actually, they used to be designed for people to "learn the good, the true, and the beautiful."

Now, many of them are just four-year vocational schooling.

What I meant was they aren't designed to teach manners (which I believe heckling a speaker falls under a severe lack of manners).

I'm not in college to learn to be a good person or citizen, I'm in college to learn what I need so that I can best be equipped to excel in the profession I want.

I Wear Pants;688969 wrote:I'm in college to learn what I need so that I can best be equipped to excel in the profession I want.

That's why most people are there, and I have to admit, I don't really like that as a reason, but I understand that a college degree is a prerequisite for most careers, so most people attend for such a reason.

Not me.

Why did you attend and what's wrong with attending college to learn?

It doesn't have to be career specific but I don't see the problem with colleges not being places to learn how to be a good person. I think if you're 20+ years old and you don't know how to be a good person you've probably already screwed up pretty badly.

I Wear Pants;689012 wrote:Why did you attend and what's wrong with attending college to learn?

I attended to learn not what to think, but how to think. I attended for the purpose of being a better, more well-rounded, well-read, well-versed, learned person. I went into my studies not wanting a career in any profession related to my focus ... and I still feel that way. Not recommending that, but I feel like there isn't nearly enough interest in personal growth in college. One only need visit a college dorm on a Thursday, Friday, or Saturday night to see that there is a virtual crisis of what Martin Seligman refers to as "the empty self" in people our age.* I didn't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with wanting to learn. Quite the contrary.

It was the "to excel in the profession that I want" part I was addressing. You seem like you have a better head on your shoulders than many, so it wasn't really directed at you. I just hate to see people go to college "so they can get a job they want when they get out." I hate seeing an occupation be the ONLY ends to which years in university classrooms are the means, but it seems that way in many cases.

Never again will a person's primary "job" be to engulf himself in learning all he can about what exists around him. It just seems like there is a lot of missed opportunity.

I Wear Pants;689012 wrote:It doesn't have to be career specific but I don't see the problem with colleges not being places to learn how to be a good person. I think if you're 20+ years old and you don't know how to be a good person you've probably already screwed up pretty badly.

Possibly. All the more reason to learn to work out your worldview on such things while in this stage ... and build it on more than soundbites and bumper stickers.

* Martin Seligman, “Boomer Blues,” Psychology Today 18, 3 (October 1988): 50 – 55.

Okay I see what you're saying now.

I guess my hesitation in getting that was that I've never understood people who weren't always learning. Even when I'm not in school I'm always reading or finding out about things, especially things that I like. I just want to know as much as I can about things I'm interested in. It baffles me when others aren't the same.

I Wear Pants;689095 wrote:Okay I see what you're saying now.

I guess my hesitation in getting that was that I've never understood people who weren't always learning. Even when I'm not in school I'm always reading or finding out about things, especially things that I like. I just want to know as much as I can about things I'm interested in. It baffles me when others aren't the same.

Like I said, I really don't see you as the "empty self" type. According to Dr. Philip Cushman, "The ‘empty self’ is filled with consumer goods, calories, experiences, politicians, romantic partners, and empathetic therapists. The empty self experiences a significant absence of meaning and embodies a chronic emotional hunger."

I see that a lot among people my age. It scares me, but even more, it makes me sad. These kinds were all over the college campus I went to. It wasn't the party spot that many colleges are, but there was still so much obsession over trendy and "relevant," but fleeting, things. A lot of them seemed hopeless, despite all the smiles in the pictures they put up on Facebook.

I Wear Pants;688960 wrote:Colleges aren't designed to make good citizens. They're designed to teach people.

I Wear Pants;688969 wrote:What I meant was they aren't designed to teach manners (which I believe heckling a speaker falls under a severe lack of manners).

I'm not in college to learn to be a good person or citizen, I'm in college to learn what I need so that I can best be equipped to excel in the profession I want.

I Wear Pants;689012 wrote:Why did you attend and what's wrong with attending college to learn?

It doesn't have to be career specific but I don't see the problem with colleges not being places to learn how to be a good person. I think if you're 20+ years old and you don't know how to be a good person you've probably already screwed up pretty badly.

I can't argue these. But they mostly support my original point. I guess I also made the assumption, hopefully correctly, that your post below was sarcasm.

tsst_fballfan;688845 wrote:

I Wear Pants;688838 wrote:Yeah because good colleges are bad for the country...

In some ways, yes they can be! This thread subject being an example.

I also think, that though it surely is bad manners, it goes beyond. What I mean is I don't believe it is simply the omission of manners 101 in some colleges. I think that at some more profoundly liberal institutions this behavior is encouraged or at the very least not shunned. Thus the reason for my original response. Good at teaching subject matter does not necessarily parallel good for the country. :shrugs:

O-Trap;689020 wrote:I attended to learn not what to think, but how to think. ...

+1 or to be more specific, learn how to be a thinker.

I Wear Pants;689095 wrote:Okay I see what you're saying now.

I guess my hesitation in getting that was that I've never understood people who weren't always learning. Even when I'm not in school I'm always reading or finding out about things, especially things that I like. I just want to know as much as I can about things I'm interested in. It baffles me when others aren't the same.

ditto