Sonofanump;767352 wrote:Yeah, the problem is that all three kinda lye on the border between serviceable starter and quality backup.

I don't even know about Quinn falling into that category. The thing with Orton is that up until last year it seemed like he won wherever he played. He's no Manning or Brady but he's solid. Tebow is a project.

Since I don't troll the Steelers thread I'll post this here. Also put it in the Basement thread....enjoy....

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11133/1146190-53.stm

BR1986FB;767244 wrote:We went up against Seneca East in track. I believe they had a relay that we attended.

Historically a good track program

royal_k;767402 wrote:Historically a good track program

True

Rizzo was talking about not liking a rookie's tweet today. I think it had something to do with McCoy's camp at BW, but all I heard was the tease. My guess is Greg Little didn't make it to the camp because he was doing hookers and blow or something.

I know, I know (slow season)...it's the Bleacher Report "butt"....

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/698735-lfl-top-10-hottest-women-of-the-lingerie-football-league#/articles/698735-lfl-top-10-hottest-women-of-the-lingerie-football-league

Yeah today has brutally slow.

BR1986FB;767357 wrote:I don't even know about Quinn falling into that category. The thing with Orton is that up until last year it seemed like he won wherever he played. He's no Manning or Brady but he's solid. Tebow is a project.

Orton is obviously their best option if they want to win. If they can field a solid defense, they could make a playoff run w/ Orton, imo.

se-alum;767608 wrote:Orton is obviously their best option if they want to win. If they can field a solid defense, they could make a playoff run w/ Orton, imo.

I have no problem with that statement. Quinn can't hit the broad side of a barn and Tebow is a better runner than thrower with that long windup. Orton DOES give them the best chance to win but it sounds like they are Hell bent on trading him.

BR1986FB;767149 wrote:No shit. I don't hold much value in the opinion of someone who thinks Teblow is going to be a legit NFL QB.

And I don't hold any value in the opinion of a guy who makes a joke a second grader wouldn't find funny and thinks he knows sports because he was a low level "pro" wrestler

Ty Webb;767773 wrote:And I don't hold any value in the opinion of a guy who makes a joke a second grader wouldn't find funny and thinks he knows sports because he was a low level "pro" wrestler

I may have made a few enemies on here but I bet if I asked for a "show of hands, who knows more about sports, me or Gibby?", I get a feeling I might just "eek" you out in the voting by a hair. Just a hunch. LOL

And as far as a "second grader joke", pretty weak with the pro wrestler comment. Really has nothing to do with the topic but your inept knowledge of sports and...well, most everything else precedes you so that's why you got my comments. You've more than EARNED your reputation as one of the OC's "whipping boys" when it comes to sheer stupidity.

See that's were you're wrong...I don't really care what your opinion (or any elses for that matter) of me is.....but I guess you do bro

To be completely honest...none of us really know anything about sports or we would be running a team...that is a simple fact

To be honest....the Browns are my third team now....but I watched them enough growing up to be concerned when I see things going the wrong way..and things are going bad up in Cleveland IMO

On offense:

A glorified backup at QB(could've had your franchise QB two years ago but traded down to draft a center who would've been there for your second round pick)

2 glorified fullbacks at Tailback (Had a chance to fix this in three of the last four drafts but passed)

A bunch of No.2 or No. 3 recieviers ( Had a chance to fix this in two of the last three drafts but passed)

O-line is pretty decent

Only bright spot is Defense...but give Holmgren enough time and he will fuck that up too

Ty Webb;767834 wrote:See that's were you're wrong...I don't really care what your opinion (or any elses for that matter) of me is.....but I guess you do bro

To be completely honest...none of us really know anything about sports or we would be running a team...that is a simple fact

To be honest....the Browns are my third team now....but I watched them enough growing up to be concerned when I see things going the wrong way..and things are going bad up in Cleveland IMO

On offense:

A glorified backup at QB(could've had your franchise QB two years ago but traded down to draft a center who would've been there for your second round pick)

2 glorified fullbacks at Tailback (Had a chance to fix this in three of the last four drafts but passed)

A bunch of No.2 or No. 3 recieviers ( Had a chance to fix this in two of the last three drafts but passed)

O-line is pretty decent

Only bright spot is Defense...but give Holmgren enough time and he will fuck that up too

If you're referring to Sanchez as that "franchise QB," the surrounding cast is a lot different in NY than it is in Cleveland. Just like QB's such as Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan and Flacco, there's no way ANY of those guys would have had the immediate success they had in Cleveland versus their current cities.

Hillis may be more suited to fullback, but who is the other one? If you're referring to the injured Hardesty, Hillis has at least 25 lbs on him.

They DO have a bunch of #2's & #3's, this I'll agree with, but Shurmur & Heckert seem to think this is what they'll need for the WCO. Whether you kill someone with a lightning bolt or through slow (short throws with YAC...moving down the field, eating up clock) water torture it's still the same result.

The O-Line is good but could be better at run blocking.

Completely disagree on the defense. The defense is CRAP. They've been trying to fit square pegs into round holes with the 3-4 when their personnel, except D-Line, was better suited to a 4-3 that they will now run. I think they have a BETTER D-Coordinator in Jauron than they had in Ryan. They have young building blocks in Haden & Ward, hopefully Taylor & Sheard too.

I should have clairified about the D...they have bright spots....not as a whole

In regards to Sanchez they should have taken him and built around him

Even in the WCO you still need a real deep threat which they don't have

Ty Webb;767834 wrote:To be completely honest...none of us really know anything about sports or we would be running a team...that is a simple fact

Speak for yourself, I get paid to watch sports.

Doesn't mean you know anything in-depth about them

gibby, do you have a 1 inch cock? That is the only explanation for your extreme lack of sports knowledge

DeyDurkie5;767907 wrote:gibby, do you have a 1 inch cock? That is the only explanation for your extreme lack of sports knowledge

Well THAT was random...LOL

looks like we have gotten a little off topic! haha

DeyDurkie5;767907 wrote:gibby, do you have a 1 inch cock? That is the only explanation for your extreme lack of sports knowledge

Not going to lie... I laughed

DeyDurkie5;767907 wrote:gibby, do you have a 1 inch cock? That is the only explanation for your extreme lack of sports knowledge

Football Star Tim Tebow Helps Circumcise Pinoy Kids
http://asianjournal.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/football-star-tim-tebow-helps-circumcise-pinoy-kids/

Timmy Jesus slip and cut too much gibby?

Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about the Browns' West Coast fit, the Cavaliers' draft options and Tribe's emerging young Michael Brantley

Published: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 11:45 PM
Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

The Plain Dealer Statistics revealing Colt McCoy's struggles when trying to force the ball deep reinforce the expected value of the Browns' move to the West Coast offense, says Terry Pluto.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- On some weekends, the thoughts about local sports just rain down ...

About the Browns...

1. At first, I was rather non-committal about the Browns switching to the West Coast offense. I know that Mike Holmgren likes it, and Pat Shurmur knows how to coach it. So that seemed like a plan. But then I found two fascinating articles on profootballfocus.com by Khaled Elsayed about NFL quarterbacks.

2. The first dealt with who throws deep -- a pass of at least 20 yards. Some of the Browns' recent offenses relied on a QB's ability to throw downfield. Last season, Peyton Manning threw the most times -- 95. Then came Joe Flacco and Aaron Rodgers (86) followed by Matt Hasselbeck and Drew Brees (76).

3. Colt McCoy threw "deep" 32 times, which doesn't sound like much. But he played only eight games. If he played all 16, that's 64 deep throws ... right in the middle of the pack.

4. Here's the problem: Throwing deep is not McCoy's game. He completed only 31 percent (10 of 32) of those passes, ranking him 21st of the 31 QBs considered by Elsayed. More alarming, he had 22 percent (seven) picked off, by far the highest percentage. Next was Jay Cutler at 12 percent. Seven of his nine interceptions were on those throws.

5. You can put an asterisk by some of this as McCoy had six interceptions in the final two games -- losses by scores of 20-10 (Baltimore) and 41-9 (Pittsburgh). The Browns got behind. Peyton Hillis was banged up and not running well. McCoy had to throw long to try and get the offense going.

6. But McCoy did complete 62 percent of passes in the 11- to 19-yard range. That is in the upper half of the NFL. He was at 65 percent in the 1- to 10-yard range, slightly below the NFL average of 67 percent. The point is McCoy can be an accurate passer, assuming he throws the right kind of passes.

7. Welcome to the West Coast offense, which should underline his strengths and not force him to throw deep that often. It's an offense based on short, quick passes. It is designed to hit receivers on the run and to help a QB counter a blitz.

8. Which brings up another issue -- McCoy against the blitz. According to Elsayed's article, McCoy was blitzed on 45 percent of his passes. Only Bruce Gradkowski (58 percent), Joe Flacco (49 percent) and Ryan Fitzpatrick (49 percent) faced more pressure. Against the blitz, McCoy had only two TD passes compared to three interceptions. That 2/3 ratio ranked 29th. Manning and Mark Sanchez (13 TDs, 3 INT) were the best, followed by Flacco (12/4) and Matt Ryan (14/5).

9. McCoy completed 56 percent of his passes against the blitz, ranking 23rd. The best were Brees (66 percent), Chad Henne (64 percent), Rodgers (63 percent) and Philip Rivers (62 percent).

10. Former Brown Derek Anderson ranked the worst against the blitz (41 percent) and the worst ratio (1/5).

11. McCoy ranked 14th in percentage of deep throws -- even higher than the likes of Manning, Brett Favre, Tom Brady and Ryan. That makes no sense, other than he's trying to make big plays downfield -- and doing it with receivers who are not especially fast or known as deep threats.

12. Maybe these numbers are why the Browns believe the offense will improve. Perhaps they think short routes will lead to more catches. Certainly, they will help McCoy do what he does best -- make a fast read of the defense and deliver the ball on target.

13. In this offense, the receiver needs enough strength to get off the line not be bumped around by the cornerback. Then he must catch the ball. As the Browns will tell their receivers, "We don't drop passes." Second-rounder Greg Little impressed the team at the combine and in workouts with his terrific hands, his strength and ability to run after the catch. Watching film, the new coaches really do believe that Brian Robiskie and Mohamed Massaquoi can do more in this system.

14. All of this is guesswork to an extent, but it's why they didn't spend much time worrying about their quarterback situation. Instead, it was who will make this offense work. The tight ends also are important, and they believe in Ben Watson, Evan Moore and rookie Jordan Cameron they will have more guys who can catch the ball.

15. The Browns believe the new offense has a lot of flexibility. Quarterbacks ranging from deep-throwing Donovan McNabb to the scamper and throw short Jeff Garcia have been effective. So they sincere believe they can make it fit to McCoy.

About Joe Haden...

This e-mail came from Ryan Kelber, a Brooklyn High social studies teacher:

"As I sat through an hour-and-half rain delay at Progressive Field on Tuesday night, I noticed someone familiar sitting next to me in the picnic plaza behind the Indians bullpen. It was Joe Haden.

"Dressed with a Tribe hat and a few friends, the Browns cornerback stood out with his friendliness and openness to all the fans. Numerous kids and adults approached Joe and he did not turn down one single picture or handshake.

"It was amazing to see an athlete be so friendly and responsive to fans while at the ballpark enjoying the game. He remained in the picnic and Rigid Bar area for most of the rain delay and continued to talk with fans and take pictures.

"He really represented Cleveland and the Browns well. We sometimes criticize drafting players based on character and talent, but Joe Haden showed me Tuesday night that he definitely has both."

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/05/terry_plutos_talkin_about_the_33.html


Haden is a BOSS ! Nice to know there's a #23 that HAS embraced the city.

Cleveland Browns defensive coordinator Dick Jauron eager to get to work with rookies, returning players

Published: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 4:25 AM Updated: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 4:34 AM
Tony Grossi, The Plain Dealer


Former Bills head coach Dick Jauron knows he has a lot of work to do as Browns defensive coordinator, including supervising the switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3 defense, along with quickly indoctrinating the team's draft picks whenever football activities resume in the NFL.

CLEVELAND, Ohio — The NFL lockout may be hurting every team, but it's killing the Browns' defense.

"We have work to do," new defensive coordinator Dick Jauron said. "I suspect that's why we're all here [meeting without players]. There's work to be done. We're looking forward to try and get it done. Hopefully, we'll have a chance soon."

The switch to the West Coast offense -- supervised by the Browns' first offensive-minded head coach in 12 years and with all that entails -- has overshadowed the seismic switch in the defensive system.

The changes involved in moving from a 3-4 alignment to the traditional 4-3 are more complex than simply subtracting a linebacker and replacing him with a fourth lineman. There will be a culture shock suffered by returning players not versed in the scheme.

Just the difference in coordinators will throw them -- going from gregarious, fun-lovin', back-pattin' Rob Ryan to the subdued, Yale-educated Jauron. Jauron has to undo six years of the Browns stocking linemen for the 3-4. Now the team needs two speedy defensive ends and two tackles -- one to stay at home and the other to provide some inside pass rush.

"We knew there'd be a lot of change, a real lot of change," Jauron said. "Certainly, the 4-3 is different than the 3-4. So up front, we knew we'd have to get personnel that fit our scheme, just like they went after personnel that fit theirs."

The draft provided two key parts, tackle Phil Taylor and end Jabaal Sheard, but there are missing pieces. And the NFL lockout, which has canceled team activities, is robbing Jauron of precious time to gauge the players on hand and where they might fit.

The offensive players have conducted two sets of their own workouts supervised by quarterback Colt McCoy, who has coach Pat Shurmur's playbook in possession. The defensive players don't have Jauron's playbook and can't do much together, anyway. Tossing a ball around isn't going to cut it for them.

When the lockout was lifted for about 24 hours before the draft, none of the defensive players showed up at Browns headquarters to receive materials from Jauron and the defensive staff.

"The difficult side for us is they don't have their stuff," Jauron said. "Most of them aren't here, obviously. And they all knew that something was going to happen [to reinstitute the lockout two days later], so they weren't about to fly back in from where they were.

"They certainly can do their drills and their drops and their footwork. If we had a year or two with them, clearly they could work on terminology and different things like that. It's just the way it is. We have to deal with it. Other teams have to deal with it. And we will."

In his first extensive interview since being hired Jan. 21, Jauron talked about the job in rebuilding the Browns' defense.

The big draft trade:

Jauron said Taylor was the player targeted after the big trade from No. 6 to No. 27 with Atlanta. The Browns had to give up their third-round pick to Kansas City to move back up to No. 21 to select Taylor. Jauron fell short of affirming that nabbing Taylor was essential for the first trade to work.

"We're glad we did. I guess that's the way I'd put it," Jauron said. "He's a player we'd talked about going in. I know Tom [Heckert] and Mike [Holmgren] really liked him. So that was kind of the plan. The rest is kind of revisionist history. If we didn't, what would have happened? I think we'd still have a good draft, but it would have been disappointing for us at the moment, because that's a guy we had targeted."

Defensive draft picks Taylor, Sheard, cornerback Buster Skrine and safety Eric Hagg:

"As an organization, we agreed that a Phil Taylor-type player [was needed]. We like this guy, like his personality, like his size, like his toughness and his athleticism. You know our division. We're gonna have to stop the run and defend play-action and obviously rush the passer. It's a tough division, physically tough. And this is a physically tough guy with good size and good athleticism. We like his demeanor.

"Jabaal is a hard player, plays the game real fast all the time, comes to the football. He tackles people. We like that. We think it fits the defensive mentality that every team wants to put in place. So, really good picks for us.

"Buster Skrine is also a tough guy. He plays the game hard and has that great speed, a thing you can't teach. We're excited about that. Eric, he was very productive for Nebraska, just continually made plays. A smart player. You can see him in their nickel package, played the dime at times, as we describe it. So we felt really good about the draft."

Pairing Taylor and Ahtyba Rubin inside the front four, and deciding which one plays three-technique (providing an inside rush) and which one plays one-technique (over the center's shoulder):

"Ideally we'd like to play them just left and right, the tackles. Until we actually see them, we won't know that. For the most part, one of them will be a one-technique at times and one of them a three-technique. If it proves to be that one of them is significantly better at one of those skills, then we can always flop them.

"[Rubin] showed some spark [against the rush] last year. What we do know for sure is this is a tough player and he plays hard. So we love the way he played the game. So we felt he's a guy we can build upon. In the 4-3, he can definitely play inside. He can definitely play in this division and more than hold his own."

Describing the differences in the left end and right end:

"Most offenses are right-handed. Anticipating you'll get the tight end to your defensive left, that defensive end generally is a little bit bigger, a little bit stouter. The right is maybe a little better pass rusher. You'd like to have them balanced. Like to have them both have outstanding abilities. Hard to find those guys."

Finding a left end to complement Sheard:

"That's one of the issues, obviously, looking at the tape. We just really are going to have to wait. I think it's fair and behooves us to wait before we pass judgment. Obviously, we've got to make some decisions before we know these guys. But once we know them, then we can start moving them around and trying them at different spots and seeing what we have."

A little more comfort at the linebacker spots:

"No matter what your situation, you're always looking to add, if you can. The veteran guys that are there for us -- Scott [Fujita], D'Qwell [Jackson] and Chris [Gocong] . . . we know they can play, have watched them play in the NFL. In D'Qwell's case, we're hoping he's healthy and comes back healthy and we feel confident that he will. At least we have a starting point there. We know from their history and from tape here that they play hard and they're tough guys. And that's a good start there."

The secondary has a hole at free safety:

"We need to keep looking and add players when we can, when we're able to get back into this thing. And we need to get our guys in and learn about them, particularly the backup players from a year ago. T.J. [Ward], we know. Joe [Haden], we know. Sheldon [Brown], we know. Eric (Wright) had a tremendous year the year before. We've got to get him back and get to work. The rest we have to get to know and see what we have. And once business starts up again, keep looking."

Summing up the final product of a Jauron defense:

"This is not out of the ordinary in our business. We would like to have a somewhat balanced defense with pressure being maybe a little higher on the list than everything else.

"It's hard to play defense in the league. You've got to do a number of different things, try to keep them off balance as much as you can and you've got to find ways to get to that guy that runs the show on the other side of the ball. If you don't, it can be long, long afternoons.

"We'd like to be multiple enough to keep you guessing at times, mix up our calls enough to keep you guessing at times, between different kinds of pressures, different coverages that vary a little bit. It's hard to do, particularly when you want to get to the level of the best teams. That would be the goal, to keep them off balance and pressure a little more than normal to make them think pressure most of the time."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/05/post_80.html

Man, we really need this BS to be settled. Switching philosophies on both sides of the ball, is gonna take a lot of work. And we need more players on defense.

Browns' Jackson on mend, liking move to 4-3


Posted May 07, 2011 @ 1:43 p.m. ET
By Mike Wilkening

After missing much of the past two seasons with pectoral injuries, LB D'Qwell Jackson is on the road to recovery — and poised to again be a key part of the Browns' defense.

The team is switching defensive schemes, installing the 4-3 in place of the 3-4, a change Jackson welcomes. Jackson, who signed a one-year contract to remain with Cleveland in March before the lockout, will be tried first in the middle, although be believes he could end up in the middle or on the weak side, he told PFW.

Wherever Jackson plays in the LB alignment, he said, he will be happy to be back on the field after a trying two seasons. Jackson missed 10 games in 2009 with a torn left pectoral, then missed all of 2010 with a torn right pectoral. Jackson said he couldn't speculate on whether the second pectoral injury was related to the initial pectoral injury. "No one really has an explanation for it," he said.

The 27-year-old Jackson, who is working out in Maryland, has been "going strong for at least two months" in his training, he said, with one final check-up on his healing progress still to come.

The 6-foot, 240-pound Jackson is looking forward to playing in the 4-3, a scheme he said is kinder to a linebacker from a physicality and assignment standpoint. As an inside linebacker in the 3-4, Jackson frequently had to deal with "uncovered" guards trying to block him.

"To me, I feel like it will be much easier," he said of the demands of the 4-3.

Re-signing with Cleveland in March offered Jackson some certainty in uncertain times. "Through it all, this wasn't a time to go to a different place," he said.

Jackson said the Browns, who have a new head coach (Pat Shurmur) and a revamped coaching staff, would be in a tough position if the offseason is shortened because of the labor dispute.

"If this lockout ends later, we're at a disadvantage," he said, noting teams with established systems have an "upper hand right now." However, he said it's something the Browns could overcome before the start of the season with the right preparation.

"It can be done," he said.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/07/browns-jackson-on-mend-liking-move-to-4-3

Find this interesting that DQ will be looked at first as a MLB.