DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
May 8, 2011 9:26pm
BR1986FB;762811 wrote:I'd hope so.
tony grossi is an idiot, to be honest
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
May 8, 2011 9:54pm
DeyDurkie5;762831 wrote:tony grossi is an idiot, to be honest
Big time, he writes more sci fi than news. He's a joke of a journalist.
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 9, 2011 4:59am
DeyDurkie5;762831 wrote:tony grossi is an idiot, to be honest
No question about that. It's the slow season with this lockout and I'll post anything I can get my hands on, Browns related.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
May 9, 2011 8:10am
BR1986FB;763032 wrote:No question about that. It's the slow season with this lockout and I'll post anything I can get my hands on, Browns related.
Good point, I still read Grossi also but it usually starts with; "ok whats see whats going on in Sci Fi today..."
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 9, 2011 8:21am
There's a thread running over on the OBR about Jayme Mitchell and how Vikings fans were not happy to lose him. We might just have our DE opposite Sheard on the roster already. Heckert was pissed Mangini didn't put him (Mitchell) on the field saying Mitchell was "our best pass rusher." Not easy to crack into the lineup when your starting front four are the Williams Brothers, Jared Allen & Ray Edwards.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
May 9, 2011 8:34am
Yeah I believe Heckert was even quoted as saying that he wanted to resign him and that he was priority #1 or something like that. Total waste of a trade last season by idiot Womangini though. I would love to at least have a player capable of starting on the opposite side at this point, as we dont have anyone right now IMO.
OneBuckeye
Posts: 5,888
May 9, 2011 12:16pm
http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2011/5/6/2156029/todd-mcshays-2012-nfl-mock-draft
LOL Todd McShay's mock draft. Has Cleveland going 5-11 and trading up to pick Andrew Luck.
LOL Todd McShay's mock draft. Has Cleveland going 5-11 and trading up to pick Andrew Luck.
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
May 9, 2011 12:16pm
If colt isnt the man, than I have NO issues with trading up for luck.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
May 9, 2011 12:19pm
Me neither, and thats where those 2 first rounders next year come in handy.Commander of Awesome;763221 wrote:If colt isnt the man, than I have NO issues with trading up for luck.
OneBuckeye
Posts: 5,888
May 9, 2011 12:29pm
He has us taking Andrew Luck and Keeping the 2nd 1st round pick. That would be quite the trade. I don't see Heckert as one to trade the draft way for Luck. Also I don't see anyone trading out of that spot and not taking Luck, unless it is the Panthers.
iclfan2
Posts: 6,360
May 9, 2011 8:14pm
I didn't know where to put this but I had to put it somewhere:
"reggie_bush via twitter:
Right about now we would be slaving in 100 degree heat, practicing twice a day, while putting our bodies at risk for nothing."
Ummm I believe it would be for a million or so dollar paycheck...
"reggie_bush via twitter:
Right about now we would be slaving in 100 degree heat, practicing twice a day, while putting our bodies at risk for nothing."
Ummm I believe it would be for a million or so dollar paycheck...
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 9, 2011 8:26pm
iclfan2;763538 wrote:I didn't know where to put this but I had to put it somewhere:
"reggie_bush via twitter:
Right about now we would be slaving in 100 degree heat, practicing twice a day, while putting our bodies at risk for nothing."
Ummm I believe it would be for a million or so dollar paycheck...
No shit. A lot of people would give their left nut to be in the "former" Mr Kardashian's shoes.
Writerbuckeye
Posts: 4,745
May 9, 2011 9:05pm
BR1986FB;763549 wrote:No shit. A lot of people would give their left nut to be in the "former" Mr Kardashian's shoes.
What do you expect? He got paid more at USC than he probably does for training camp work.
Ty Webb
Posts: 2,798
May 9, 2011 9:15pm
Is Mike Adams good enough to be taken in the first round??
Also...it would cost Cleveland both firsts,another pick,and a pretty good player to get the No.1 overall
Also...it would cost Cleveland both firsts,another pick,and a pretty good player to get the No.1 overall
DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
May 9, 2011 9:41pm
Ty Webb;763606 wrote:Is Mike Adams good enough to be taken in the first round??
Also...it would cost Cleveland both firsts,another pick,and a pretty good player to get the No.1 overall
yes he is to the first. No SHIT to the second
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 10, 2011 10:35am
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 10, 2011 12:01pm
Who You Got?
By Dave Kolonich
OBR Reporter
Posted May 10, 2011
When analyzing Tom Heckert’s draft day trade, a bit of a historical perspective is required.
As the distance grows from the 2011 NFL draft, it’s hard not to project ahead to the coming season. By most accounts, the Browns delivered on a second consecutive solid draft – which should be considered a rarity given the team’s expansion malaise over the past decade. On paper, Browns’ GM Tom Heckert added two likely defensive line prospects, along with some intriguing mid-round talent. Of course, the key to the team’s 2011 draft is centered on the great flexibility added to the 2012 version – all of which speaks to a badly needed sense of overall franchise continuity.
In some respects, this most recent draft could prove to be a seminal moment in the franchise’s return to respectability. Combining the prospects added in 2011 to last year’s haul of Joe Haden, T.J. Ward and Colt McCoy demonstrates the possibility of an authentic long-term vision that has been non-existent since the team’s return in 1999.
Yet in the meantime, the 2011 draft will likely be measured by using some direct – if not altogether unfair comparisons. As many fans and media have suggested, the initial success of the 2011 draft will come down to the following scenario.
Julio Jones (6th Overall Selection) + Justin Houston (70th Overall Selection)
vs.
Phil Taylor (21st Overall Selection) + Greg Little (59th Overall Selection) + Owen Marecic (124th Overall Selection) + Atlanta’s 2012 1st and 4th Round Picks
Although again, the true merit of this trade will not reveal itself for at least 2-3 seasons – especially considering the fate of the 2012 draft. However, at first glance, it appears that Jones and Taylor will forever be linked together – along with endless comparisons made between Jones and Little.
On this point, it’s a bit unfair to both Taylor and Little – considering that Jones should experience a more seamless fit on an already talented Atlanta offense. While it would be incredibly easy to devalue Heckert’s trade down if Jones emerges as a rookie playmaker in Atlanta, doing so would reduce the importance of the team adding overall volume – especially within the context of the 3-4 year rebuilding plan the Browns are currently enacting.
In the short term, Little has a huge learning curve ahead of him, at least based on his year of inactivity while suspended at North Carolina. In Taylor’s case, the argument comes down to the idea of value. The Browns need an upgrade in both their run defense and passing offense. While the results may not be conclusive in 2011, at least the team’s odds have doubled in fixing two of their critical areas of need.
Yet, just wait for the howls to emerge from Browns Nation after Jones’ first 100-yard receiving effort.
However, with this argument locked into the view of fans and media alike for the next several years, it’s worth taking a look back at some of the other pivotal front office moves of the past. For the sake of comparisons, it seems the Browns could have done a lot worse.
Mark Sanchez (5th Overall Pick)
vs.
Alex Mack (21st Overall Pick) + David Veikune (52nd Overall Pick) + Kenyon Coleman + Abe Elam + Brett Ratliff
The Browns’ front office at this time, essentially run by former coach Eric Mangini targeted a more immediate need of adding some veteran leadership to the remnants of Romeo Crennel’s country club locker room. The additions of Coleman and Elam – later enhanced by the signings of Eric Barton and David Bowens – helped to establish both Mangini’s authority and his particular brand of defense in Cleveland.
However, this trade shouldn’t solely be judged on the arrivals of three players who are not a part of the team’s immediate future. In making the initial trade down, Mangini gave himself room to trade two more times – which netted a draft-depleted team some additional picks. However, even with this under consideration, the trade can be easily reduced to Mack and Veikune vs. Sanchez.
Of course, after two years, Mangini’s first major move as pseudo-GM can now be summarized as Mack vs. Sanchez. It’s like we never knew you, David Veikune.
In terms of overall profile, it’s easy to suggest that either the Jets fleeced Mangini – or that Mangini simply misfired on his second-round pick. Simply put, Sanchez is a star quarterback on a playoff contender – despite his still obvious growing pains – while the Browns added a core piece to their offensive line. However, as time passes, the potential development of Colt McCoy can effectively negate this comparison.
Haloti Ngata (12th Overall Pick)
vs.
Kamerion Wimbley (13th Overall Pick) + Baba Oshinowo (181st Overall Pick)
If we’re discussing pivotal draft day moments, an entire chapter needs to be devoted to Phil Savage. Although some would argue that Savage’s 2008 offseason moves helped to destroy the team’s long-term depth, no move was more critical than the 2006 trade made with Baltimore. In swapping first-round picks, Savage chose a projected 3-4 pass rusher over a physical interior lineman.
Five years later, Ngata is the heart of the Ravens’ front seven, Wimbley is in Oakland and Heckert was forced to attempt to solve the team’s decade-long run defense issues. While Wimbley was a hard worker and made a few plays during his short time in Cleveland, passing on Ngata became symbolic of the draft day mistakes that have plagued the long-term health of this franchise.
Speaking of which….
Gerard Warren (3rd Overall Selection)
vs.
Richard Seymour (6th Overall Selection)
I’m not sure if irony is in play here, or just a sweeping sense of incompetence. Anyway, it appeared that for about eight years, Savage and Butch Davis were simultaneously cleaning up the messes laid at their feet by previous regimes – while also creating their own unique brand of chaos.
As Browns’ legend goes, the team was set to enter the 2001 draft targeting Seymour. Yet, to the surprise of his scouting staff, Davis pulled rank to grab the mercurial Warren. A few attempted “kill shots” later, Warren was swept away to Denver, while Seymour collected three Super Bowl championships. As for a direct comparison, even the most optimistic of Browns fans couldn’t ignore this mistake.
In terms of the Browns’ warped sense of continuity – meaning that the constant rebooting of the franchise often translated to a past GM drafting for future version – a Seymour selection could have solidified the team’s 3-4 defensive front….at least after Davis eventually quit.
Finally, while all of the above scenarios offer the kinds of comparisons that could eventually fade away into the gentle night of NFL memories, one will forever linger.
Or in other words – and then this happened.
Dwight Clark
vs.
24 Wasted Picks
Even if Julio Jones becomes the next Jerry Rice, nothing can sting worse than this.
By Dave Kolonich
OBR Reporter
Posted May 10, 2011
When analyzing Tom Heckert’s draft day trade, a bit of a historical perspective is required.
As the distance grows from the 2011 NFL draft, it’s hard not to project ahead to the coming season. By most accounts, the Browns delivered on a second consecutive solid draft – which should be considered a rarity given the team’s expansion malaise over the past decade. On paper, Browns’ GM Tom Heckert added two likely defensive line prospects, along with some intriguing mid-round talent. Of course, the key to the team’s 2011 draft is centered on the great flexibility added to the 2012 version – all of which speaks to a badly needed sense of overall franchise continuity.
In some respects, this most recent draft could prove to be a seminal moment in the franchise’s return to respectability. Combining the prospects added in 2011 to last year’s haul of Joe Haden, T.J. Ward and Colt McCoy demonstrates the possibility of an authentic long-term vision that has been non-existent since the team’s return in 1999.
Yet in the meantime, the 2011 draft will likely be measured by using some direct – if not altogether unfair comparisons. As many fans and media have suggested, the initial success of the 2011 draft will come down to the following scenario.
Julio Jones (6th Overall Selection) + Justin Houston (70th Overall Selection)
vs.
Phil Taylor (21st Overall Selection) + Greg Little (59th Overall Selection) + Owen Marecic (124th Overall Selection) + Atlanta’s 2012 1st and 4th Round Picks
Although again, the true merit of this trade will not reveal itself for at least 2-3 seasons – especially considering the fate of the 2012 draft. However, at first glance, it appears that Jones and Taylor will forever be linked together – along with endless comparisons made between Jones and Little.
On this point, it’s a bit unfair to both Taylor and Little – considering that Jones should experience a more seamless fit on an already talented Atlanta offense. While it would be incredibly easy to devalue Heckert’s trade down if Jones emerges as a rookie playmaker in Atlanta, doing so would reduce the importance of the team adding overall volume – especially within the context of the 3-4 year rebuilding plan the Browns are currently enacting.
In the short term, Little has a huge learning curve ahead of him, at least based on his year of inactivity while suspended at North Carolina. In Taylor’s case, the argument comes down to the idea of value. The Browns need an upgrade in both their run defense and passing offense. While the results may not be conclusive in 2011, at least the team’s odds have doubled in fixing two of their critical areas of need.
Yet, just wait for the howls to emerge from Browns Nation after Jones’ first 100-yard receiving effort.
However, with this argument locked into the view of fans and media alike for the next several years, it’s worth taking a look back at some of the other pivotal front office moves of the past. For the sake of comparisons, it seems the Browns could have done a lot worse.
Mark Sanchez (5th Overall Pick)
vs.
Alex Mack (21st Overall Pick) + David Veikune (52nd Overall Pick) + Kenyon Coleman + Abe Elam + Brett Ratliff
The Browns’ front office at this time, essentially run by former coach Eric Mangini targeted a more immediate need of adding some veteran leadership to the remnants of Romeo Crennel’s country club locker room. The additions of Coleman and Elam – later enhanced by the signings of Eric Barton and David Bowens – helped to establish both Mangini’s authority and his particular brand of defense in Cleveland.
However, this trade shouldn’t solely be judged on the arrivals of three players who are not a part of the team’s immediate future. In making the initial trade down, Mangini gave himself room to trade two more times – which netted a draft-depleted team some additional picks. However, even with this under consideration, the trade can be easily reduced to Mack and Veikune vs. Sanchez.
Of course, after two years, Mangini’s first major move as pseudo-GM can now be summarized as Mack vs. Sanchez. It’s like we never knew you, David Veikune.
In terms of overall profile, it’s easy to suggest that either the Jets fleeced Mangini – or that Mangini simply misfired on his second-round pick. Simply put, Sanchez is a star quarterback on a playoff contender – despite his still obvious growing pains – while the Browns added a core piece to their offensive line. However, as time passes, the potential development of Colt McCoy can effectively negate this comparison.
Haloti Ngata (12th Overall Pick)
vs.
Kamerion Wimbley (13th Overall Pick) + Baba Oshinowo (181st Overall Pick)
If we’re discussing pivotal draft day moments, an entire chapter needs to be devoted to Phil Savage. Although some would argue that Savage’s 2008 offseason moves helped to destroy the team’s long-term depth, no move was more critical than the 2006 trade made with Baltimore. In swapping first-round picks, Savage chose a projected 3-4 pass rusher over a physical interior lineman.
Five years later, Ngata is the heart of the Ravens’ front seven, Wimbley is in Oakland and Heckert was forced to attempt to solve the team’s decade-long run defense issues. While Wimbley was a hard worker and made a few plays during his short time in Cleveland, passing on Ngata became symbolic of the draft day mistakes that have plagued the long-term health of this franchise.
Speaking of which….
Gerard Warren (3rd Overall Selection)
vs.
Richard Seymour (6th Overall Selection)
I’m not sure if irony is in play here, or just a sweeping sense of incompetence. Anyway, it appeared that for about eight years, Savage and Butch Davis were simultaneously cleaning up the messes laid at their feet by previous regimes – while also creating their own unique brand of chaos.
As Browns’ legend goes, the team was set to enter the 2001 draft targeting Seymour. Yet, to the surprise of his scouting staff, Davis pulled rank to grab the mercurial Warren. A few attempted “kill shots” later, Warren was swept away to Denver, while Seymour collected three Super Bowl championships. As for a direct comparison, even the most optimistic of Browns fans couldn’t ignore this mistake.
In terms of the Browns’ warped sense of continuity – meaning that the constant rebooting of the franchise often translated to a past GM drafting for future version – a Seymour selection could have solidified the team’s 3-4 defensive front….at least after Davis eventually quit.
Finally, while all of the above scenarios offer the kinds of comparisons that could eventually fade away into the gentle night of NFL memories, one will forever linger.
Or in other words – and then this happened.
Dwight Clark
vs.
24 Wasted Picks
Even if Julio Jones becomes the next Jerry Rice, nothing can sting worse than this.
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 10, 2011 12:01pm
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
May 10, 2011 12:26pm
Christ that article hurt to read. Big Ole Waste of Money Warren...SMH. Granted I dont want Sanchez, I think he's overrated but the Jets bent us over a barrell regardless. We should have gotten David Harris in the deal bar none. Idiot Mangini. And dont get me started on Ngata. Wow this is infuriating.
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 10, 2011 12:28pm
Commander of Awesome;764079 wrote:Christ that article hurt to read. Big Ole Waste of Money Warren...SMH. Granted I dont want Sanchez, I think he's overrated but the Jets bent us over a barrell regardless. We should have gotten David Harris in the deal bar none. Idiot Mangini. And dont get me started on Ngata. Wow this is infuriating.
Mangini got DP'd (one in the mouth, one from behind) in that Jet's deal. Not only did he NOT get enough but he also essentially drafted crap. David Fucking Veikune...smh
Commander of Awesome
Posts: 23,151
May 10, 2011 12:30pm
I know, I knew for the first training camp I went to that season that the dude didn't belong in the league. I've never seen a player look so lost/slow/out of place as that scrub and I've seen Bob Hallen/Joe Andruzzi/Trent Dilfer practice.
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 10, 2011 8:15pm
Via Peter King's Twitter...
SI_PeterKing Peter King
RT @AlexRJones: How many years until the Browns are considered a legit playoff contender? ... If Colt's good, this year.
SI_PeterKing Peter King
RT @AlexRJones: How many years until the Browns are considered a legit playoff contender? ... If Colt's good, this year.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
May 10, 2011 8:23pm
BR1986FB;764399 wrote:Via Peter King's Twitter...
SI_PeterKing Peter King
RT @AlexRJones: How many years until the Browns are considered a legit playoff contender? ... If Colt's good, this year.
Wish I could believe that, but I think they will struggle even if Colt does play well. However, a good FA haul could change my mind.
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 10, 2011 8:28pm
OchoCinco taking up bullriding? Delonte West tried that but he must have mistaken "bull" for "bulldog." #Delonte'sLebronsDaddy
like_that
Posts: 26,625
May 10, 2011 8:30pm
BR1986FB;764399 wrote:Via Peter King's Twitter...
SI_PeterKing Peter King
RT @AlexRJones: How many years until the Browns are considered a legit playoff contender? ... If Colt's good, this year.
Big if.