I work part time for 2 separate school districts and do not receive benefits from either. I won't lie, the money I bring home for what I do between both jobs is a little low, but I can pay my bills and afford to have a few material things. I am happy enough with it. The only thing I am upset about is not being able to find 1 full time position.

I think most of the teachers on here are admitting (not a good word because it has a negative connotation) that they are ok/happy with where they're at financially. The thing that people realize is that there are VERY FEW teachers who do nothing over the summer. So, to say "You get paid $xxxxx and only work 180 days/ year," is a little off. I would say after the minimum job duty requirements, the average teacher works a little over 200 days a year. There are 105 weekends in a calender year. I don't know a whole lot of people who work weekends. So, the average person has 260 working days/year. Take away mandatory holidays (Christmas...) and the number is down to let's say 255.

This means that an average working person works 55 more days than the minimum a full time teacher works. Like someone else said, most will say that teachers are paid fairly. However, some that are whining about them being grossly overpaid really need to break it down and look.

I'd like to know how many days some of the other teachers on here work in a given year. I work all year round in some capacity because of my part time status. Am I way off on my assumptions? Too high? Too low? I just wanted to get someone else's perspective on this.

Scarlet_Buckeye;623260 wrote:I find it very amusing that when teachers are actually confronted with statistical facts about their salaries from non-teachers, coupled with facts about their benefit packages their tune does a 180 and they get all defensive and all they have as a comeback is basically well become a teacher. Non-teachers love to point out these actual facts and statistics because of all the whining and complaining that teachers do year in and year out about how bad they have it. See if I have any compassion when Francine Lawrence, President of the Toledo Federation of Teachers' Union, starts her negotiations which are forthcoming (i.e., like when the district wanted to have teachers pay a nominal co-pay for their doctor's visits which would save the district hundreds of thousands of dollars in their medical insurance ----- but noooooo, the poor teachers can't aford to absorb a co-pay).

-So, you're saying that if you were a teacher, god forbid, that you wouldn't accept your salary? Or, for that matter, defend your salary? That's ridiculous. If I was attacking your profession, I'm sure you would just take it? I doubt it.
-I also always hear these same statistics thrown out by the same type of people that have never taught. The plain and simple fact is, is that there is the perception that EVERYONE is able to teach. Give it a try. I'd love to see how some of you do. After you have tried, why don't you then, set your own salary and we'll see what you come up with.

-Ah, the 11 years of schooling. Well, I do, in fact have a PHD in Reading...this is actually worthless in my job, other than I can say, "I have a PHD...uhhh, in reading." I changed my major a couple of times of course, but finally settled in and obviously, it took a while.

-To stick it to non-teachers a little more, I'd like to make the argument more human. Do you hate your job? I think some of you do. Well, I can firmly say that I not only love my job, but I feel like I was made to do it. Getting up to go to school(which is what we call it, we never say, "I have to work tomorrow.") is a pleasure for me. It simply never feels like work. I love the kids...love seeing them learn, helping them learn, and love trying to make them independent and productive members of society. I don't know how you view reward in your job...I suppose by more money. In my job, I get paid modestly I believe for my 11 years of schooling, but, have you ever had a 22 year old man come to you and say, "you are the reason I didn't kill myself in high school." And...really, really mean it? What's that worth? Really? What's that worth? These kinds of things happen more than you will ever know.

-In the end, we'll not change teacher salaries on ohiochatter...so, carry on bitching!

So we cannot discuss something that won't change because of us talking about it?

Might as well nuke the politics, pro sports, and college sports forums.

That's cool that you got a PHD though for a high school teacher I guess I don't see the return on the investment, but if you liked the classes and subject matter and wanted a PHD than more power to you for sticking it out and getting the damned thing.

Again, teachers are very important people because of the impact they have. Some of my favorite people are teachers and coaches. Teachers getting paid well (not that most necessarily do) doesn't affect me nor does them getting better job security than I'll ever have. I just sometimes wish they'd be all "I've got a decent gig" instead of "I get paid shit". Most teachers I know love teaching and wouldn't want to do anything else even for more money, but I do know some that bitch about their pay in relation to their education a lot and it irks me a bit.

Perhaps I focus on that type of person too much when talking about teacher's salaries but it is what it is.

I Wear Pants;623477 wrote:but you have much more job security than just about anyone else which is something to be thankful for..

This, I feel, is another misinformed statement. I don't have a permanent contract with the district, I'm in my 7th year, I have an expendable position (non core subject), and I have seen colleagues at my district (even with continuing contract) let go. Some were bad teachers, so that's good.

I don't feel I have job security, regardless of how good of a teacher I am b/c all it takes is someone with an agenda.

Seven years is a lifetime in most professions. What other job has more security? How is it misinformed? Most of my friends in "good" professions (engineering, law, etc.) have been laid off multiple times.

My Dad never once worried about his job, not once. And he never took a pay cut. I went to one of the poorest, shittiest schools in the State (Gallia Local) and they have NEVER laid off a teacher without cause.

visionquest;623546 wrote:In my job, I get paid modestly I believe for my 11 years of schooling, but, have you ever had a 22 year old man come to you and say, "you are the reason I didn't kill myself in high school." And...really, really mean it? What's that worth? Really? What's that worth? These kinds of things happen more than you will ever know.

You've got a PHD in reading but you didn't read when you forgot the " ? " at the end of that sentence?

haha, just razzin' ya

Manhattan Buckeye;623673 wrote:Seven years is a lifetime in most professions. What other job has more security? How is it misinformed? Most of my friends in "good" professions (engineering, law, etc.) have been laid off multiple times.

My Dad never once worried about his job, not once. And he never took a pay cut. I went to one of the poorest, shittiest schools in the State (Gallia Local) and they have NEVER laid off a teacher without cause.

If we face budget cuts, my "department" could be axed. Yeah, I've been there 7 years, but that still doesn't mean I FEEL secure.

It's misinformed b/c you and I have different view of teacher security.

ernest_t_bass;623729 wrote:If we face budget cuts, my "department" could be axed. Yeah, I've been there 7 years, but that still doesn't mean I FEEL secure.

It's misinformed b/c you and I have different view of teacher security.

It's all relative. Most people don't work under any kind of employment contract. I can go to work tomorrow and fire any or all of my employees for any reason or no reason.

visionquest;623546 wrote:
-Ah, the 11 years of schooling. Well, I do, in fact have a PHD in Reading...this is actually worthless in my job, other than I can say, "I have a PHD...uhhh, in reading." I changed my major a couple of times of course, but finally settled in and obviously, it took a while.

What is a PhD in "reading?"

Is that a PhD in something like Reading and Literacy Education?

To all of those who can do a better job, become a full time teacher for half pay or shut the fuck up.

As I have stated before education should be privatized. Let those that want to educate their kids pay private school costs for 16 - 18 years before they pay for 4 years of college. Take the tax payer out of the equation, allow schools to kick trouble students out so educators can focus their time on the good kids. Open up the institutions so special education does not eat up the costs. All sports should be pay to participate (note its not pay to play). Kids that can't cut it in school can become soldiers, ditch diggers, or factory workers. You don't need an education to fill a spot on the front line, hold a shovel or push a button.

"Lets create a clearly defined proletariat to seperate out people into classes" - mella.

mella;623750 wrote:To all of those who can do a better job, become a full time teacher for half pay or shut the fuck up.

Actually, as a "stockholder" in this particular venture, I believe I have the right to criticize my "employees", whether or not I could do a better job, or would be willing to do so.

ccrunner609;623742 wrote:job security in education isnt that great.

Significantly better than non-govt jobs. And, as tends to be the nature with most unions, as you accumulate seniority your job security tends to increase. Job security, time-off, pension/benefits and even job satisfaction have value as types of non-monetary compensation, but teachers usually tend to focus on take-home when complaining about how much they make. You see it in private sector, too, as total comp has seen much larger increases in medical benefits vs. wages. To be fair, in both cases benefits can have disproportionate value to different people (i.e. single vs. family of five). When you consider the "cost" of such insurance, most single people would shop for a better deal but unfortunately you can't do that.

cbus4life;623746 wrote:What is a PhD in "reading?"

Is that a PhD in something like Reading and Literacy Education?

-You are correct sir, that is exactly what it is.

"Job security, time-off, pension/benefits and even job satisfaction have value as types of non-monetary compensation, but teachers usually tend to focus on take-home when complaining about how much they make."

Agreed, in addition there are few jobs that provide the workplace stability and foreseeable schedule that teaching provides. It might not be a direct monetary benefit, but it is still important and has some value. Not too many teachers get told by their boss that they need to be across the country on a moment's notice. It happens often in the private sector - hell right now my wife is damn near 10,000 miles away from us.

Manhattan Buckeye;623346 wrote:Meigs or Morgan Co.?

Meigs

I Wear Pants;623758 wrote:"Lets create a clearly defined proletariat to seperate out people into classes" - mella.

No, I actually believe the opposite. A quality education should be provided to all children by quality educators. The problem is the "stockholders" don't want to pay for quality educators. Crappy teachers should be removed from the job as long as it is proven that the poor performance is not because of crappy parents or undiagnosed learning disabilities. My students consistently perform above expectations on standardized tests. Does that make me a good teacher or do I benefit from teaching in a good district? I like to think its mostly the former and some of the latter. I've known great teachers who struggle to teach in urban environments because the local "stockholders" don't place high expectations on their children.

Why are teachers always put down for wanting to make a livable wage? Should teachers make a max of $30,000 a year? $40,000 a year? what is the level that most people want teachers to make?

If tax payers don't want to pay for teachers salaries then it has to be privatized and that means private school prices. Does it make sense for parents to pay for 12 years of private education and 4 years of college and then be done with it or have everyone pay a little throughout their lives?

It would be great if we could pick a choose which taxes we could pay!

mella;623809 wrote: Why are teachers always put down for wanting to make a livable wage? Should teachers make a max of $30,000 a year? $40,000 a year? what is the level that most people want teachers to make?

Is what teachers make some great big secret when people choose to major in education and pursue a job teaching? I can easily turn it around and say "if the pay sucks so bad, take a higher paying job in the private sector".

How much should teachers make? The median FAMILY income is something like $45k a year. Obviously it should be higher than the average for teachers given the education, but I don't think it's out of line when you consider pension/benefits and other non-monetary compensiation. If I were to be brutally honest, the soft skills that are important for successful teachers aren't highly valued in the private sector.

Everyone can play the game "you can't do my job". But, I don't know, I look at the success of home schooling and I think there are a lot more lay people capable of at least elementary education than teachers want to admit. Teachers, like any profession, tend to overrate the true value that they create. Doesn't seem to be any shortage of teachers so I might argue that the supply/demand is in pretty good balance.

Personally, I think a lot of education is self taught per se, especially at the high school and college levels. All you need is a little motivation and self discipline, give him a text book or have him do research online and bingo, the learning begins and teachers just become a figurehead.

Scarlet_Buckeye;624111 wrote:Personally, I think a lot of education is self taught per se, especially at the high school and college levels. All you need is a little motivation and self discipline, give him a text book or have him do research online and bingo, the learning begins and teachers just become a figurehead.

You do realize that there are different learning styles? Psychological science tells us this. Some are visual, some are hands on, some can learn just by reading. Ever notice how some kids just "got it" and never had to study, yet got A's? Ever notice how some kids, no matter how hard they tried, just couldn't seem to get it.

I agree with you, on your particular style of learning, as it works for me as well. Not everyone.

ernest_t_bass;624120 wrote:Some are visual, some are hands on, some can learn just by reading. Ever notice how some kids just "got it" and never had to study, yet got A's? Ever notice how some kids, no matter how hard they tried, just couldn't seem to get it.

I'm curious (as I have no idea) do you think the parents of these kids have any influence on which kids just get it and which kids don't?

FatHobbit;624166 wrote:I'm curious (as I have no idea) do you think the parents of these kids have any influence on which kids just get it and which kids don't?

Yes and no. The psychological makeup of an individual is complex and affected, influenced, created by so many different factors throughout one's life.

Mr. 300;620026 wrote:Link does not work.

Too easy.

visionquest;623051 wrote:All I got from this thread was this or some variation of it>>>>"boo-hoo...whine-whine...I'm not a teacher. They have it made." I went to college for 11 years....make just under 40 grand and educate 140 kids per day. What did you do? Make some steel pipe or something?

I manage business strategies which are annually valued somewhere in the realm of about $29M.

I'd learn to shit golden eggs to be making $$50K a year.

mella;623750 wrote:To all of those who can do a better job, become a full time teacher for half pay or shut the fuck up.

Wait, because me doing the same thing would fix the problem? Erm ... no.

For what it's worth, not all teachers are overpaid. My wife is an elementary school teacher, and she makes a modest wage (enough for 1 person to live on in a poor area).

However, to suggest that I should do something because I feel I could is logically fallacious. Suppose I could do a better job than some teacher I knew ... but that I do a still-better job as an accountant ... and I love my job as an accountant more. Are you suggesting that I'm not permitted to critique the pay structure of any other occupation? PARTICULARLY if it's a job funded by tax dollars that I, along with every other tax payer, am paying?

I'm one of the biggest proponents of free enterprise, so normally, I say make as much as you can. However, if that is achieved through the public service structure, and not the private sector, it becomes a different issue.

I don't become a teacher because it's not what I want to do. I could make better money doing it than what I do now, but I enjoy what I do now, and I make enough to live.

Your attempt to oversimplify the discussion wasn't helpful.

visionquest;623546 wrote:have you ever had a 22 year old man come to you and say, "you are the reason I didn't kill myself in high school." And...really, really mean it? What's that worth? Really? What's that worth? These kinds of things happen more than you will ever know.

It was a girl, and she was 17, but yes. Not because I was a teacher. Because I was a volunteer in a local youth center. Anecdotes like that, as serious and lifechanging as they are, don't change the facts.

ernest_t_bass;624120 wrote:You do realize that there are different learning styles? Psychological science tells us this. Some are visual, some are hands on, some can learn just by reading. Ever notice how some kids just "got it" and never had to study, yet got A's? Ever notice how some kids, no matter how hard they tried, just couldn't seem to get it.

I agree with you, on your particular style of learning, as it works for me as well. Not everyone.

I agree and disagree. Up until and excluding some high school subjects, learning is largely memorization. Does the ability to present material in an interesting way influence performance? Sure, but I think self-motivation and involvement of the parents matter much, much more. I can't recall anyone teaching me how to study or memorize things. Interesting corollary is how some parents obsess over their exceptionally gifted children, as if the right school or teacher is going to launch a nobel prize career and I think, again, there's virtually nothing to support those beliefs (heck, Einstein did horrible in school, right?)

However, I've definitely had classes that were beyond my ability to self-learn. The ability to present that in layman's terms definitely makes a difference, but that's not a skillset unique to teachers. Yes, in another profession that skillset would be much more highly valued, but now we're talking about advanced high school courses where the pay is going to be a little better, and on the college level it goes without saying as professors are well-paid, generally.

bigkahuna;623543 wrote:
I think most of the teachers on here are admitting (not a good word because it has a negative connotation) that they are ok/happy with where they're at financially. The thing that people realize is that there are VERY FEW teachers who do nothing over the summer. So, to say "You get paid $xxxxx and only work 180 days/ year," is a little off. I would say after the minimum job duty requirements, the average teacher works a little over 200 days a year. There are 105 weekends in a calender year. I don't know a whole lot of people who work weekends. So, the average person has 260 working days/year. Take away mandatory holidays (Christmas...) and the number is down to let's say 255.

This means that an average working person works 55 more days than the minimum a full time teacher works. Like someone else said, most will say that teachers are paid fairly. However, some that are whining about them being grossly overpaid really need to break it down and look.

I love it how the teachers say they only get an extra 55 days off per year. You do realize that is over 10 weeks of vacation in about any other profession? 55 days off is certainly a considerable amount. I would guess that most other full time employees get 1-4 weeks total of vacation each year. And those that work over the summer are using doing another job to earn extra income, I doubt that many teachers are working the entire summer just to get things ready for the coming year.