Disclaimer: I'm not here to make false claims about God or religion or say anything is wrong or right. I also don't know if this belongs in the politics forum or not, so my apologies if it does not.

Background: I grew up in a catholic household for the first 20 years of my life. Every Sunday morning, rain or shine, we were in church. My mom is very religious, and my dad I think more so just goes through the motions to satisfy her. I think if she weren't around he probably wouldn't go on his own but he goes along without complaining. I could never get into church. I made plenty of attempts to care, and listen, and try and do what's right...as I got older, I was less into it. I could get never get past why bad things happened to good people. My grandma was probably the most religious person I knew. She went to church, said the rosary daily, etc...but in the end, she died alone in her home choking on a piece of food. No one saw it coming. IF heaven does exist, there's no doubt in my mind that's where she ended up, but I wonder if she questioned God on why she died alone so suddenly. And I know the common defense/reasoning is that it's all part of God's plan. I don't know, I guess I just never had that type of faith to believe any of that, that there's a "plan" for us all.

I live a pretty luxurious, stress-free life. I have a family that is there for me at the drop of a hat and very supportive, a good job, friends, good health, etc. I guess I could "count my blessings." But what about people that don't have that? What about all the evil in the world? The babies/kids that are murdered by their dumb parents, or someone who's sitting in jail for a crime they never committed. Where is/was God for them? Why am I so blessed yet millions are not?

I see people on facebook all the time praising God, thanking God, explaining their faith. I just don't get it. How does anyone have ANY proof that praying and believing makes any difference? Is there scientific data or research that confirms that people who live a religious life are better off and happier than those who don't? My mom says she prays for us every day or when we leave the house to go somewhere, that we'll be safe. What if one day something happens? What's the explanation for that? Was God not looking out for us?

Here's a link to a Toledo murder, apparently the lady was a Nun and the Priest murdered her pretty gruesomely. I remember a philosophy professor I had years ago mentioned this to the class.
http://www.snapnetwork.org/news/otherstates/oh_toledo_nuns_murder.htm

If your this Nun that dedicated her life to serving God, and then you're murdered, what does God say to you when you get to heaven? How do we know ANYTHING happens, and this lady basically served for something that was worthless?

I'm not trying to start a pissing contest saying I'm better than anyone and religion is dumb, but these are the questions that no one could ever answer yet continue to have faith. I just don't get it.

If you don't understand you never will.

If someone is out of a job and needs work, what will get them a job? Praying or submitting resumes? Neither may work sure but only submitting resumes will lead to work!! See my views there!

dlazz;602919 wrote:If you don't understand you never will.

I don't agree with this.

It is the presence of the Holy Spirit that inspires a search for and development of Faith. It is a gift that we receive as opposed to one we obtain. We do not know when friendfrolowry might be moved towards a deeper and impacting understanding of our Creator.

In His time, not ours.

Con_Alma;602928 wrote:I don't agree with this.

It is the presence of the Holy Spirit that inspires a search for and development of Faith. It is a gift that we receive as opposed to one we obtain. We do not know when friendfrolowry might be moved towards a deeper and impacting understanding of our Creator.

In His time, not ours.

Uhh...ok. That'll sure help him on his journey.

So the bottom line is: People choose religion because they are afraid their life is pointless.

Again, IMO, life is completely pointless. "God" gives people a reason to keep on truckin'.

It all boils down to faith. Either you have faith or you don't.

FWIW, I don't either. You're not the only person who has questions.

Pretty much sounds like my entire life story up to this point..So know you aren't alone with that.

20% of it is true and actually happened. God exists and Jesus was in fact crucified. The other 80% is total and complete waste of time for humanity to even deal with.

Especially around this time of year I just find myself laughing at everything, nativity scenes in particular. That shit never happened, it is exactly that, shit. It is a feel good story for Christianity. God spoke to Jesus after John baptized him announcing him as the anointed one. You can't have that be true and then have Mary and Joseph and a bunch of dumb ass farm animals knowing that this little kid is the son of God. The bible is the biggest joke in the history of the world, literally. But God does in fact exist. Kind of why I steer clear of church and be taught the bible every sunday.

dlazz;602942 wrote:Uhh...ok. That'll sure help him on his journey.

So the bottom line is: People choose religion because they are afraid their life is pointless.

Again, IMO, life is completely pointless. "God" gives people a reason to keep on truckin'.

I wasn't attempting to "help him on his journey" I was stating why I disagree with your comment.

I also disagree that people choose religion because they are "afraid"; afraid of anything or any reason.

I'll just give my two cents:

1) Bad things happen to good people because bad things don't discriminate. God originally created the universe without disease, death, sin, etc., and also created human beings with free wills- to either choose to love God or choose to reject Him, to choose to do evil or choose to do good. When human beings (Adam & Eve) first sinned, they brought a curse upon the created order wherein death & disease were introduced.

That's the really really simplified version of what the Bible teaches. There are still a lot of things I don't understand, and a lot of things none of us will this side of heaven.

2) An honest search for the truth should start with the Bible. A lot of truth tends to get muddied by different churches, denominations, popular preachers, etc. I believe God honors those who sincerely and honestly search for the truth:

"Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock and it shall be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it shall be opened." (Matt 7:7,8)

dlazz;602942 wrote:So the bottom line is: People choose religion because they are afraid their life is pointless.

That's not a fair statement to make. While I can't speak for everyone, I choose religion because a reasoned analysis of the universe strongly suggests the existence of a creator-god. Further examination suggests that if a god exists, he'd likely end up having characteristics very similar to the Judeo-Christian god. It's up to you to do your own investigation and accept/deny at your own profit/peril, but it's silly to dismiss the idea out of hand.

CinciX12;602960 wrote:Especially around this time of year I just find myself laughing at everything, nativity scenes in particular. That shit never happened, it is exactly that, shit. It is a feel good story for Christianity. God spoke to Jesus after John baptized him announcing him as the anointed one. You can't have that be true and then have Mary and Joseph and a bunch of dumb ass farm animals knowing that this little kid is the son of God. The bible is the biggest joke in the history of the world, literally. But God does in fact exist. Kind of why I steer clear of church and be taught the bible every sunday.

Is this your opinion? Or are you stating your post as fact? It's hard to tell sometimes just reading and not hearing.

I do not have a problem with the whole "man in the sky" thing. I do have a problem with people and organizations that gain power with thier interpretation of the man in the sky's will.


The bible might have some insight as to the will of God, but to me it is mostly parables. I do find it odd that God has chosen to speak to no one since he gave his only son so the people he loves have an avenue to heaven.

It's like Hello God... It's me with a question.
If man can only attain your grace through the blood and forgiveness of you son, How does everyone else that lived before him, and everyone else that has never heard of him get to heaven? Just sayin.....



Oh, in case you are wondering, I do believe in the Man In The sky.

Thread Bomber;603039 wrote:Oh, in case you are wondering, I do believe in the Man In The sky.

Santa Claus?

fan_from_texas;603016 wrote:reasoned analysis of the universe strongly suggests the existence of a creator-god.

...what?

dlazz;603047 wrote:...what?

What?

How much time have you spent studying this? What classes have you taken? What books have you read? There is an immense body of literature that supports the idea of a creator-god. It's certainly not conclusive (thus, the "leap of faith"), but if you haven't read it, you're missing out.

If you're interested in giving religion a fair shake, I'd be happy to recommend some books on the subject. The problem I see is that far too often, religious people make bad arguments to "prove" God's existence, and then non-believers rightfully discredit those arguments. The problem, of course, is that a bad arguer doesn't make the underlying facts wrong. E.g., a second grader can say something that is true, albeit complicated, and I'm sure most of us could out-argue him. That doesn't make his underlying point wrong; it just means that he's not very smart. This applies to religion, too--lots of bad arguments are made, but if you want to get to the heart of the matter, you have to focus on the good arguments on both sides, not the bad ones.

Religious people aren't alone in their ignorance, though. In my experience, the militant-atheist--typically young males who had some messed up experience with religion and now seek to discredit it--is rarely giving a honest shake at things as much as he is either trying hard to be a non-conformist or just flat-out being argumentative. Neither of those are really worth a reasoned response, so as a rule, I don't discuss religion with people who only want to argue or throw out 7th-grade platitudes (pearls before swine, etc.). For someone who earnestly wants to discuss and reason, though, I'm certainly open to discussion.

God is only real if you perceive him to be.

If you believe...fine, but don't push it on me.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/note.php?note_id=464778077249

The lyrics in that song pretty accurately sum up my current feelings on religion.

I don't entirely know what I think. On one hand I see a lot of inconsistencies and other problems in the Bible, but on the other thing I have real trouble wrapping my head around how anything got here without a creator. Although then I have trouble wrapping my head around how he got here/there.

dlazz;603061 wrote:God is only real if you perceive him to be.

As a matter of logic, that is demonstrably false. God either exists or doesn't exist, but his existence isn't contingent upon us. At least one of us (and perhaps both of us) is wrong, but it's rather silly and intellectually insincere to suggest that we're both right in our own way. I'm happy staking my ground, and I respect those on the other side who do the same--if we're going to talk big issues with big positions, I think everyone should man up, state their piece, and stand by it--none of this whimsical "we can all be right in our own way" nonsense.

If you believe...fine, but don't push it on me.

I don't know if that "you" is directed toward me or society at large. If the former, I'm not trying to push anything on you. You're a grown up who can make your own decisions and deal with the benefits and/or consequences of those decisions. Because I care about you, I genuinely wish that you'd consider my position, and since you (presumably) care about me, I respect you enough to give your view a fair shake, too.

If the latter, ignore what I just said in the preceding paragraph.

fan_from_texas;603075 wrote: I don't know if that "you" is directed toward me or society at large.

No, society at large. I absolutely cannot stand it when people hand me pamphlets trying to get me to find Jesus. That drives me insane. It's cool if you believe, but I have my beliefs and I don't need help changing them.

dont worry OP. its always a bit weird when you begin to realize the truth. im sorry but there is nothing more cheesy (hilarious cheesy) then someone taking about Jesus like he's their best friend (especially some of the more conservative posters, the ones who would cry if a middle eastern man got on their plane, yet go home and pray to one). People talk to themselves and act like they arent completely insane.

Jesus was born in April, Christmas is a stolen holiday, BYAH!

Tiernan;603044 wrote:Santa Claus?

If you want to rely on written evidence. one could assume the plausibility of both. If you want to take it on faith, there are a bunch of kids that would give you a good argument on Santa, but would be lost on the argument for God because they only know what their parents or Sunday school teacher has taught them

So the answer to your on word question is yes, or no depending on how you want to look at it.

The logical progression of faith is 1st. you believe as you are taught by your parents. This is neither right or wrong but is how a families beliefs are indoctrinated upon their family.


When the age of logic is attained, It is perfectly natural to question the existence of God. A child/teen has learned to question thing they have not experienced first hand.

After a person has struggled with their faith, they tend to enforce or deny it. And it goes on for the rest of their lives.

Dlazz, I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with you. I also find it amusing that people will attack you when you question their faith ( as if God needs a defender)

On people "pushing" their faith on others . . . most often they do so because they have a genuine concern for the spiritual well-being of others. They may come across as pushy, or use technical jargon, or lack politeness, but you have the right to say, "Thanks, but no thanks", and be thankful they aren't pushing their religion with the sword, or tyrranical laws, etc.

As for God, He doesn't push or coerce anyone. Humans are free to choose to love or not love God, to follow or not follow Him. Just as you wouldn't want a robot for a spouse- someone who obeys your every whim but has no love or emotion toward you- so God leaves us the opportunity to choose or reject Him.

For those who say the Bible is worthless, or is no different from any other religious work:

http://www.newtestamentchurch.org/html/Christian_Evidence/Uniqueness_of_the_Bible.htm

dlazz;603101 wrote:No, society at large. I absolutely cannot stand it when people hand me pamphlets trying to get me to find Jesus. That drives me insane. It's cool if you believe, but I have my beliefs and I don't need help changing them.

Really? I can think of about 1000 things that bug me more than that. I just politely say, "no thanks, I'm good." and I'm on my merry way. No blood, no foul. Plus, how often does that really happen? I can count on one hand the times it's ever happened to me.

Happens all the time to me. And the last few times the dudes were really pushy. Like, I was in line at Best Buy on black friday and said "No thanks dude" to a guy handing out pamphlets and trying to convert people to his particular brand of Christianity. After that he continued to attempt to talk to me and I told him "I'm just trying to stand here in line and talk with my friends, if you keep badgering me I'll ask the Best Buy people to have you removed from the area". He did leave but when doing so pulled the "when you want to get off the path to hell you know where to go" shit. Pissed me off.

I'm okay with people handing out pamphlets and whatnot if they are respectful of others. That's just them trying to do what they believe is right and helping others find the faith that they hold so dear and feel is important. But when you get pushy or try to use fear of damnation as your selling point I get a little angry.