Writerbuckeye;595784 wrote:Even accepting that nonsense -- they obviously know NOW that their very existence on US soil is a crime and have known this in all likelihood for a long time. At what point do you begin to hold folks...many of them now legally adults...responsible for THEIR OWN actions?
But that's not even the crux of this argument for me. The key to everything here is GIVING AWAY CITIZENSHIP to people who haven't done their due diligence to deserve it...and putting them AHEAD of people who have worked hard and followed the rules.
The entire law is patently unfair as one portion of the same group of people (those who would be immigrants) is being treated far better than another if this bill becomes law. I'm no Constitutional scholar but doesn't that go against the whole idea of equal treatment under the law?
Again, my main argument against this: it simply isn't a reasonable, fair and equitable way to determine who gets citizenship.
Please tell me how you justify this to the thousands of folks who have been playing by the rules all these decades.
First of all, you refer to Mens Rea as nonsense which in and of itself is nonsense. Second, you're saying that this particular segment of immigrants with a mixed legal status knows now that they have committed a crime and are here illegal. But, as I pointed out, they never really met all of the elements necessary to have committed the crime of crossing into the United States illegally. This particular group of immigrants, children brought to the United States before age 16, has at best a mixed legal status. The only one being unreasonable here is you and your ilk. You want to kick out people who knowingly and willfully and maliciously cross over our border at an age in which they can be held legally accountable for their actions? Ok sure, I'm with you on that. You want to militarize the border like the South and North Korea and prevent this from happening? Ok I'm with you on that.
You say they haven't done their due diligence to deserve citizenship? Well it is not their fault that they were brought here illegally. There is no reason why their years living here shouldn't count towards obtaining residency so then they can indeed follow through with the requirements of obtaining citizenship.
The entire law is not patently unfair. It would simply allow the years that they spent here to count towards obtaining permanent residency; specifically ones who want to lead productive lives in America. Persons who were brought here before age 16 and want to defend our nation or become educated in it can stay and have those years they've been here count towards permanent residency....if you don't want to be a productive resident, you have to leave still and do what you would recommend even for the productive ones.
Your prescription not only is what is actually unfair to a small segment of immigrants who have done nothing wrong under principles of law accepted since the Norman Conquest. If they did what you'd ask, they'd have to leave, come back when they are 18 and wait 5 years just to obtain permanent residence and then citizenship. I mean, if they were brought here illegally there is a good chance that their parents and family members are not U.S. citizens and therefore it is very difficult for them to obtain permanent residency. It is extremely difficult. In reality about the only way would be to rely on the diversity lottery.
It doesn't put them ahead of people who are following the rules because they intend to follow the rules and have not willfully broken them. This one small segment of aliens plays by the rules just like people trying to establish permanent residence.
I can agree, if you willfully cross the border doing so knowing that it is illegal then fine you have to leave. If you crossed the border before you were 16 in a manner that was not willful or wanton and you agree to serve in the military or go to college, your years here can count towards permanent residency and ought to as you have no real connection to the country of which you are a national anyways. If you don't want to be a productive member of American society then like the rest of those who did cross knowing it is wrong then fine you have to leave too.
It is one very small and very eligible group of immigrants. And, as a matter of reality, these immigrants who have been established permanent residents and become naturalized citizens for the most part overwhelmingly supported this measure and didn't look at it as unfair to them. What is unfair is for children to be brought to a foreign nation illegally by their parents and for those children to be raised as if they were citizens of that nation and to not allow those years to count towards establishing permanent residency.
