tsst_fballfan;586228 wrote:Thanks for the assist in proving my point. A smaller private that draws from a large area that goes beyond any relative boundries that is consistently in the playoffs. The exact over use of the lack of guidelines I have been discussing for this entire thread. Well done. Bravo!

Really?!?! You obviously know nothing about Alter! :roflmao:

Over use of what guidelines? That privates should have the same boundaries as publics? Why and who determines that? Why not just divide the states up by population every year, and legislate that every high school have exactly the same number of boys and the same number of girls. Then have one division. Of course, you'd have to shift buildings to wherever the high school population moves every year. You could then divide up the state tax money and the private tuition money and divide it evenly among all the schools. Then everyone would start out equal. Then all the state championships would be won by privates. Then what will you complain about?

"Maybe the publics should be the one to change. Allow them to turn away whomever they wish. Remove all district boundaries for them. Allow them to play to the size of the student body they pick and choose and not one dictated to them by the state. Allow them to compete academically with students they pick and choose and not those dictated to them by the state."

Great idea! The publics make their own rules, so let them change as they wish. Privates will still have a disproportionate number of championships, not because they have superior talent, but because of the way they approach competition.

Change it up any way you want. As long as some schools see competition as an activity and not as a quest, they're not going to get to the championships. As long as some schools see obtaining the stars and babyin them, they will not consistently win. Some publics and some privates see competition as a way to play to win, and they are consistently successful. They use the team concept, and their "stars" fit in.

Last year, when Alter beat each of the five teams they played in the playoffs by at least 25 points per game, the workhorse in the offensive backfield was Cody Taulbee. He benched 400 and was one of the fastest guys on the team. He also carried something a 3.9 GPA and now is a student athlete at Brown in the Ivy League. Having him on the team was far from recruiting a non-Catholic kid who's not a student but who is a great athlete, and babying him through four years, then featuring him on your football team. Cody was one of a half dozen backs who saw considerable time with the ball. He had more time than anybody else, because he was the workhorse. But he didn't consistently get 35 carries or anything like that.

Some of you need to get the fog of your preconceived notions out of your way, so that you can see the privates have a different mission than the publics. If that leads to separate playoffs, so be it. But that would not be fair to the kids who go to public schools. The public school championships would be considered less competitive, even though there would be many more schools in each division. To be fair to the kids, there should be one championship per division by size of school.

Really?!?! You obviously know nothing about Alter! :roflmao:

I graduated from Alter over 45 years ago, where I was a football starter. Two brothers and three sisters, a son and daugher attended Alter, along with a nephew and five nieces. We've had family at Alter in every decade since it opened. Over 25 athletic letters, 10 of them in football. I think I know something about Alter and the football program. What's your point?

Reread his post, and look at the highlighted words he used out of your quote. That is what he means.

aged jock;585977 wrote:Allegations that smaller privates in larger cities or suburbs have an advantage over small town publics are way off the mark. Alter competes for students with Oakwood, Fairmont, Bellbrook, Centerville, Springboro, West Carrollton and Miamisburg. All of those schools are academically competitive (some certainly more than others). Except Oakwood, they're all larger schools than Alter. Alter can only find 200 students from Kettering, compared to Fairmont's 2800 plus, so Alter wouldn't exist without going beyond the artificlal taxing districts drawn by governments.

NO ONE stages 40 yard dashes of eighth graders before making admission decisions to Alter, and how can you tell if an eighth grader is going to pan out as a senior? NO ONE at Alter, coach or fan, combs the area looking for the best football players to lasso and bring to Alter. Alter folks don't go to public school grade school games, talking to players or parents about sending their kids to Alter. In fact, Wee Elks, Wee Firebirds, Wee Eagles, etc. are all tied to their public high school programs, and a lot of Alter kids come from those supposedly independent community sports programs for age-group kids at below high school ages. All of those kids are heavily recruited to go to the public schools. A.J. Hawk, Mike Nugent and Nick Mangold were all on the same Wee Elks team at one time. Hawk and Nugent went to Centerville and Mangold went to Alter. Why? Because Mom and Dad Mangold were Catholic. Dad even went to Carroll (Catholic school). Hawk and Nugent didn't have those ties. Nobody tried to get Hawk or Nugent to Alter.

Finally, EVERY STUDENT at public schools has a FULL SCHOLARSHIP.

So tell me again how it's unfair that Alter, which charges over $8,000 a year to attend, can get enough superstars to attend when the public schools around it are very good and FREE? Compare that to Clinton Massie, a FREE public school in a small town with NO COMPETITION, has a disadvantage over Alter.

You guys are really Martians, aren't you? You're certainly not living in a world that has any connection to reality.

Alter competes with those schools for prospective students? Please look at your list again and tell me who has had the most success.

Hartley beats Chagrin Falls earlier today....At the Half....Delphos 35 Shadyside 0. It has begun....But wait, I forgot, the kids from Hartley and Delphos, they probably worked harder way back at the beginning of 2 a days right? Maybe they just want it more, right?

At 35-0 at half, i think its fair to pencil in St. Johns for the D6 title. In the last three years, in the lower divisions (4-6), Private schools have won all 8 titles with Ursuline a heavy favorite to make it 9 for 9 tomorrow morning. This should be proof that a multiplier is now needed. Bigger public schools shouldnt have an issue against Privates, their districts and student bodies are big enough they can field a competitive team. But in the lower divisions, the playing field is getting more and more slanted.

skank;586557 wrote:Hartley beats Chagrin Falls earlier today....At the Half....Delphos 35 Shadyside 0. It has begun....But wait, I forgot, the kids from Hartley and Delphos, they probably worked harder way back at the beginning of 2 a days right? Maybe they just want it more, right?

Hartley, hmmmm.... you mean that east side school whose team hasn't won a State Championship in 22 years? The team who's star running back is the son of a Hartley grad and small business owner/resident in the same neighborhood as Hartley? That Hartley? Yeah, maybe they wanted it more and worked harder. Champagne anyone?

Yeah....THAT Hartley. Btw, what a disgusting display by Delphos, dropping 77 on Shadyside.

etak;586579 wrote:Hartley, hmmmm.... you mean that east side school whose team hasn't won a State Championship in 22 years? The team who's star running back is the son of a Hartley grad and small business owner/resident in the same neighborhood as Hartley? That Hartley? Yeah, maybe they wanted it more and worked harder. Champagne anyone?

Thanks for clarifying where ONE kid is from.

skank;586618 wrote:Thanks for clarifying where ONE kid is from.

Champagne, Skank?

skank;586618 wrote:Thanks for clarifying where ONE kid is from.

Skank, doesn't your school recruit kids from the Pacific Coast?

I don't think so, but since....I know what school you're from, you would know much more about recruiting than I....So....Maybe.

Legitimate question...skank, wonder how Hartley would have done if they were in region 16 this year? Heard Jonathan Alder tried to schedule them, but was told no thanks.

Be Nice;586675 wrote:Legitimate question...skank, wonder how Hartley would have done if they were in region 16 this year? Heard Jonathan Alder tried to schedule them, but was told no thanks.

Yeah, JA's star holder on pat's is actually from there.

Legitimate question...skank, wonder how Hartley would have done if they were in region 16 this year? Heard Jonathan Alder tried to schedule them, but was told no thanks.


Hartley would have been right there with Kenton and Alter, atop R16, and beat R16's obviously best team in a very tough game on a ridiculously cold night. They would have beaten JA, Massie and the others.

Great job, Hartley. Let the haters thnk and say what they want. That offensive line and all the backs, especially Noah Key, were more than any D4 team could handle this year. Don't know what those kids eat, but they are powerful. I saw the vid of your Coach telling you how to overcome bad things that happen in games. He's doing the right things and you peaked at exactly the right time. From a die hard Alter fanatic, many congratulations.

Chagrin Falls was a great team last year and this year, beating the best teams in the north, and looks like it will be for years to come. So it seems will Hartley be, although that line and Key were huge difference makers.

Hartley beats Chagrin Falls earlier today....At the Half....Delphos 35 Shadyside 0. It has begun....But wait, I forgot, the kids from Hartley and Delphos, they probably worked harder way back at the beginning of 2 a days right? Maybe they just want it more, right?

That's the way it looked against my Alter Knights!

Here are some FACTS for the haters:

DIV All Ohio statistics:
Offense: 4 of 21 on first team were on private school teams, 17 on public school teams
Defense: 2 of 15 on first team were on private school teams, 13 on public school teams
All POY's were public school kids.

The privates must be failures at recruiting all the best players!

That is evidence that it's not about getting the star players - it's about home-grown hard work to develop TEAMS. It's about discipline, preparation, work and dedication to the effort.

Now put up some FACTS to support your crying about "advantages" in getting star players or shut up.

skank;586617 wrote:Yeah....THAT Hartley. Btw, what a disgusting display by Delphos, dropping 77 on Shadyside.

Yeah, those cheatin' SOBs, doing it with 100% of their kids having grown up in Delphos.

Every.

Single.

One.

Thanks for finally agreeing with us that recruiting isn't the advantage, as (once again as you can be slow on the uptake), 100% of the DSJ team are local.

aged jock;586690 wrote:Legitimate question...skank, wonder how Hartley would have done if they were in region 16 this year? Heard Jonathan Alder tried to schedule them, but was told no thanks.


Hartley would have been right there with Kenton and Alter, atop R16, and beat R16's obviously best team in a very tough game on a ridiculously cold night. They would have beaten JA, Massie and the others.

Great job, Hartley. Let the haters thnk and say what they want. That offensive line and all the backs, especially Noah Key, were more than any D4 team could handle this year. Don't know what those kids eat, but they are powerful. I saw the vid of your Coach telling you how to overcome bad things that happen in games. He's doing the right things and you peaked at exactly the right time. From a die hard Alter fanatic, many congratulations.

Chagrin Falls was a great team last year and this year, beating the best teams in the north, and looks like it will be for years to come. So it seems will Hartley be, although that line and Key were huge difference makers.

Thanks, aged jock - giving credit where credit is due. Appreciated. Cheers!!

aged jock;586697 wrote:Here are some FACTS for the haters:

DIV All Ohio statistics:
Offense: 4 of 21 on first team were on private school teams, 17 on public school teams
Defense: 2 of 15 on first team were on private school teams, 13 on public school teams
All POY's were public school kids.

The privates must be failures at recruiting all the best players![/U]

That is evidence that it's not about getting the star players - it's about home-grown hard work to develop TEAMS. It's about discipline, preparation, work and dedication to the effort.

Now put up some FACTS to support your crying about "advantages" in getting star players or shut up.

But....isn't the Mr. Football winner from....Um....Ursuline?

aged jock;586697 wrote:Here are some FACTS for the haters:

DIV All Ohio statistics:
Offense: 4 of 21 on first team were on private school teams, 17 on public school teams
Defense: 2 of 15 on first team were on private school teams, 13 on public school teams
All POY's were public school kids.

The privates must be failures at recruiting all the best players!
That is evidence that it's not about getting the star players - it's about home-grown hard work to develop TEAMS. It's about discipline, preparation, work and dedication to the effort.

Now put up some FACTS to support your crying about "advantages" in getting star players or shut up.

Also, by this thinking, 3 of the last 7 young men to win Mr. Football have been from parochial schools, that's 42%, and when you figure the % of parochs to publics, that's quite high....So....Maybe they're doing a better job of recruiting than ya think.

In the case of Shadyside/Delphose, has anybody brought up strength of schedule yet? I haven't read all the posts, so I don't know, just asking.
I'm a fan of the OVAC in general, but the interplaying competition isn't like playing in the MAC. I'm not bashing the OVAC and I'm not putting the MAC on a shrine, it just is what it is.
*which is the only reason why I've been against the Buckeye 8*

skank;586617 wrote:Yeah....THAT Hartley. Btw, what a disgusting display by Delphos, dropping 77 on Shadyside.

Really? Looked to me more like a disgusting display by Shadyside.

aged jock....you are truly the encyclopedia of HS football. Care to tell us why they "ducked" Alder this year? And by the way, your mind is really wacked if you think Hartley would have beaten Alder and Massie. Hartley was in a region that in no way compared to region 16.