^^^a movement is on the way. Many coaches, players, administrators, fans and others have had enough. I've talked to a few coaches from public schools this past season and let me tell you....many are pissed with the recruitment issue. Many!

Someone said in an earlier post..."why all the hatred"? My answer to that is....what rock have you been hiding under?

fish82;573610 wrote:Bingo.

Bingo is in the church basement down the street..

My answer to the topic question is: No

Sykotyk;573636 wrote:fish82, that's all well and good, but if you have 516 students, you're D2. If you have 518 students, you're D1. Tell the students in D2 that they can't 'compete with the best' then as well simply because two families 16 years ago decided not to have more children.

Sykotyk

Isn't that a separate topic? What does separating the privates have to do with enrollment cutoffs? The School with 516 boys still gets to compete against the best schools of their size, unless the privates have their own tourney.

tsst_fballfan;573682 wrote:Funny how the private school fans talk down at those that question the system as it is. You throw out "beat the best to be the best" and "stop whining" and "tell your kids they are losers because they can't compete". But for some reason you don't want to live up to those standards yourselves. Every parent at lower division privates should be telling their kids they are losers because they can't compete at D1 level. Every lower division private should KNOW they are not the best because they have not beaten the best. Every lower division private needs to stop the hypocritical whining. Wawww don't change anything, whawww we don't want to move up divisions, wawww we shouldn't have to compete with 1000 student D1 schools that have a bigger student pool, wawww.

No exception to the rules huh. Move all privates to D1 (got to beat the best to be the best right), plus little Johnny privates parents never have to tell him he is a loser then right, wait for it... wait for it... wait for it... as soon as Ursuline and the like go 10-20 years without winning anything all the Irish whiners will be crying the loudest guaranteed!!!

This post is so stupid I had to look twice to see if skank wrote it. So you'd move Zanesville Rosecrans to D1, just to spite the Ursulines of the world that you're not good enough to beat?

Question: Where the fark were you people in 2006 and beyond when Ursuline was mediocre at best? How about when Mooney was going 5-5 or 0-10? The Irish are in an up period at the moment, which will eventually end...just like it has done at other private schools.

fish82;573810 wrote:This post is so stupid I had to look twice to see if skank wrote it. So you'd move Zanesville Rosecrans to D1, just to spite the Ursulines of the world that you're not good enough to beat?

Question: Where the fark were you people in 2006 and beyond when Ursuline was mediocre at best? How about when Mooney was going 5-5 or 0-10? The Irish are in an up period at the moment, which will eventually end...just like it has done at other private schools.

Is your private edumakation is failing you. Allow me to elucidate for you. Hypocritical commentary from private fans telling smaller rural publics to man up, to be the best you have to beat the best. And if you can't then tell poor Johnny public he is a loser for not wanting to play a school with a decided advantage. Well man up Ursuline to be the best you have to beat the best and that is not in D5. If you don't want the OHSAA to eliminate the decided advantage then go tell little Johnny private he is a loser for his lack of asperation to man up and play the best.

I wouldn't move anyone anywhere. But don't talk out of the side of your mouth prodding the publics to beat the best and out of the other side when challenged to practice your own sermonizing.

Divisional breakdowns were put in place to give schools with smaller population areas an even playing field. They did not however take into account schools like Ursuline that are D5 but draw from a quarter million populous zone. Most small rural D5 schools have a populous zone of 1000-1500. [sarcasm]Sounds even to me![/sarcasm]

Please feel free to regurgitate some cud about the Ursuline down years as if it had anything at all to do with guidelines set forth for use(or abuse) by the OHSAA. Tell us all how Ursuline is exceedingly fair in student admittance and how those Youngstown public school students parents must just desire their kids struggle to get their education. Please feel free to expound on how anyone wanting into Ursuline is accepted without rebuff no matter their intellect or financial standing. Please vociferate your claim to open enrollment being the leveler. Since most small rural D5 schools get in the fractional percentage range or no open enrollment that contention is moot. What is Ursulines open enrollment percentage, oh that's right 100%.

Answer: The same place I have always been. Against separate guidelines governing publics and privates.

If your still having trouble understanding maybe Fork Union Military Academy, Kiski School or Harmony Community School can help!

^^^^^^^^ Outstanding ......Perfect!!

tsst_fballfan;573982 wrote: Divisional breakdowns were put in place to give schools with smaller population areas an even playing field. They did not however take into account schools like Ursuline that are D5 but draw from a quarter million populous zone. Most small rural D5 schools have a populous zone of 1000-1500. [sarcasm]Sounds even to me![/sarcasm]

Please feel free to regurgitate some cud about the Ursuline down years as if it had anything at all to do with guidelines set forth for use(or abuse) by the OHSAA. Tell us all how Ursuline is exceedingly fair in student admittance and how those Youngstown public school students parents must just desire their kids struggle to get their education. Please feel free to expound on how anyone wanting into Ursuline is accepted without rebuff no matter their intellect or financial standing. Please vociferate your claim to open enrollment being the leveler. Since most small rural D5 schools get in the fractional percentage range or no open enrollment that contention is moot. What is Ursulines open enrollment percentage, oh that's right 100%.

I can appreciate your opinion here. And I also appreciate the fact that you said you wouldn't move anyone anywhere. The part that I bolded is where I have a problem with your argument. I've already provided the numbers...small rural public schools, on average, DOMINATE the smaller divisions. Why do people keep overlooking that schools like St. Henry, Coldwater, Versailles, and Maria Stein Marion Local have only one less state championship than Mooney, Ursuline, Newark Catholic, and Delphos St. John in divisions 4-6? So the small public schools that don't win state championships should have just as big of a complaint with those four public schools as they do with those four private schools. Those 8 schools have accounted for about 42% of the state championships in divisions 4-6. Each set of four accounts for about 21% of the titles. And overall, more public schools have won championships in divisions 4-6 than private schools.

So whatever advantages schools like Ursuline have...sure aren't working in their favor a majority of the time! Why don't people realize this?!

tsst_fballfan;573982 wrote:Is your private edumakation is failing you. Allow me to elucidate for you. Hypocritical commentary from private fans telling smaller rural publics to man up, to be the best you have to beat the best. And if you can't then tell poor Johnny public he is a loser for not wanting to play a school with a decided advantage. Well man up Ursuline to be the best you have to beat the best and that is not in D5. If you don't want the OHSAA to eliminate the decided advantage then go tell little Johnny private he is a loser for his lack of asperation to man up and play the best.

As I stated before, I'm a public school guy. I'm just not as whiny as you people. As sherm03 has stated clearly for you, the publics dominate the lower divisions.

tsst_fballfan;573982 wrote:I wouldn't move anyone anywhere. But don't talk out of the side of your mouth prodding the publics to beat the best and out of the other side when challenged to practice your own sermonizing.

You just suggested moving all the privates to D1. Did I read it wrong?

tsst_fballfan;573982 wrote:Divisional breakdowns were put in place to give schools with smaller population areas an even playing field. They did not however take into account schools like Ursuline that are D5 but draw from a quarter million populous zone. Most small rural D5 schools have a populous zone of 1000-1500. [sarcasm]Sounds even to me![/sarcasm]

There were no small private schools in 1972? Really? :rolleyes:

tsst_fballfan;573982 wrote:Please feel free to regurgitate some cud about the Ursuline down years as if it had anything at all to do with guidelines set forth for use(or abuse) by the OHSAA. Tell us all how Ursuline is exceedingly fair in student admittance and how those Youngstown public school students parents must just desire their kids struggle to get their education. Please feel free to expound on how anyone wanting into Ursuline is accepted without rebuff no matter their intellect or financial standing. Please vociferate your claim to open enrollment being the leveler. Since most small rural D5 schools get in the fractional percentage range or no open enrollment that contention is moot. What is Ursulines open enrollment percentage, oh that's right 100%.

So you're on record as calling for Ursuline to be dealt with somehow prior to 2007? Tell ya what, Sparky...you tell us how they're not fair in student admittance. If they're so damn shady, I'm sure there are numerous examples of them "abusing" the rules. Please list them...I'll wait.

sherm03;574090 wrote:I can appreciate your opinion here. And I also appreciate the fact that you said you wouldn't move anyone anywhere. The part that I bolded is where I have a problem with your argument. I've already provided the numbers...small rural public schools, on average, DOMINATE the smaller divisions. Why do people keep overlooking that schools like St. Henry, Coldwater, Versailles, and Maria Stein Marion Local have only one less state championship than Mooney, Ursuline, Newark Catholic, and Delphos St. John in divisions 4-6? So the small public schools that don't win state championships should have just as big of a complaint with those four public schools as they do with those four private schools. Those 8 schools have accounted for about 42% of the state championships in divisions 4-6. Each set of four accounts for about 21% of the titles. And overall, more public schools have won championships in divisions 4-6 than private schools.

So whatever advantages schools like Ursuline have...sure aren't working in their favor a majority of the time! Why don't people realize this?!

As I have stated before it has little to do with records. That is a symptom of the problem. The guidelines most refer to are admittance and enrollment control. The problem is there shouldn't be any advantage and it shouldn't work to their favor anytime!

The MAC is an anomaly. I have no idea what's in the water out there but they need to bottle it. lol

Like any statistic they can be skewed to favor one point or another. Yours doesn't show the big picture. Using those three divisions the divide is close to 80% public and 20% private. The title divide is 58% public 42% private. So 20% of the teams win 42% of the titles. Those numbers are skewed in favor of privates too because I actually included all privates even those that doubtfully field teams at all. Like Christian Academy with 19 boys, East Richland Christian with 11 boys, First Baptist Christian with 15 boys, Gilead Christian with 21 boys, Heritage Christian with 19 boys, Northside Christian with 17 boys, Shekinah Christian with 22 boys, St Joseph with 16 boys, Delaware Christian with 33 boys, and Granville Christian with 30 boys. That probably drops the percentage of privates to below 20% but still winning 42% of the titles.

tsst_fballfan;574295 wrote:As I have stated before it has little to do with records. That is a symptom of the problem. The guidelines most refer to are admittance and enrollment control. The problem is there shouldn't be any advantage and it shouldn't work to their favor anytime!

The MAC is an anomaly. I have no idea what's in the water out there but they need to bottle it. lol

Like any statistic they can be skewed to favor one point or another. Yours doesn't show the big picture. Using those three divisions the divide is close to 80% public and 20% private. The title divide is 58% public 42% private. So 20% of the teams win 42% of the titles. Those numbers are skewed in favor of privates too because I actually included all privates even those that doubtfully field teams at all. Like Christian Academy with 19 boys, East Richland Christian with 11 boys, First Baptist Christian with 15 boys, Gilead Christian with 21 boys, Heritage Christian with 19 boys, Northside Christian with 17 boys, Shekinah Christian with 22 boys, St Joseph with 16 boys, Delaware Christian with 33 boys, and Granville Christian with 30 boys. That probably drops the percentage of privates to below 20% but still winning 42% of the titles.

This is what I'm trying to make people realize. It is not 20% of the teams winning 42% of the titles. There are 361 teams in divisions 4-6. Obviously things adjust higher or lower throughout the years...so we will say 360 to make it a round number. EIGHT teams account for 42% of the titles. Four of those teams are private, four are public. That means that 2% of the teams in divisions 4-6 account for 42% of the titles! I'll say it again...good programs breed good programs. Steubenville will always have a good team. So will Mooney, Coldwater, Iggy, Versailles, etc. The people who are upset with Ursuline for doing so well in division 5 should be just as upset with the public schools that do well in those divisions year in and year out.

Small public schools have gotten killed at the lower divisions through the years Ive seen the records I have state title programs ..OHSAA.com

queencitybuckeye;573593 wrote:"Son, I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but you just don't have what it takes to complete with the best. We're losers, son".

Nice message. If you whine about "fair", you are a loser. There are no exceptions to this rule.

I'll tell ya what, when you see something that's "fair", you let me know.

fish82;573810 wrote:This post is so stupid I had to look twice to see if skank wrote it. So you'd move Zanesville Rosecrans to D1, just to spite the Ursulines of the world that you're not good enough to beat?

Question: Where the fark were you people in 2006 and beyond when Ursuline was mediocre at best? How about when Mooney was going 5-5 or 0-10? The Irish are in an up period at the moment, which will eventually end...just like it has done at other private schools.

You have quite a way with the English language.

The more people complain about what they have, the more they lose the appreciation for all the good in place.

We have a very good system in place and the more pressure people put on changing it the more I am for going to one division with one State Champion.

Thinthickbigred;574617 wrote:Small public schools have gotten killed at the lower divisions through the years Ive seen the records I have state title programs ..OHSAA.com

Here are the state results. It doesn't support what you claim.
http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/history/FT/state_results.htm

Thinthickbigred;574617 wrote:Small public schools have gotten killed at the lower divisions through the years Ive seen the records I have state title programs ..OHSAA.com

You should check again. St Henry, Coldwater, Versailles, and Maria Stein Marion Local have 17 state championships. Look again man.

skank;574645 wrote:You have quite a way with the English language.

I have quite a way with most everything. It's good to be me.

fish82;573810 wrote:This post is so stupid I had to look twice to see if skank wrote it. So you'd move Zanesville Rosecrans to D1, just to spite the Ursulines of the world that you're not good enough to beat?

Question: Where the fark were you people in 2006 and beyond when Ursuline was mediocre at best? How about when Mooney was going 5-5 or 0-10? The Irish are in an up period at the moment, which will eventually end...just like it has done at other private schools.

Four trips to the state title game in the previous decade, and most likely one to kick off the new decade?

Today foes become friends and we break bread together ..I wish all the Irish and Mooney people especially a happy thanksgiving ...Peace brothers...

^^^nice. Same here.

A little justice for all the publics.

I especially love the quote from EC's current starting QB, "when I came in as a freshman."
http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2010/11/24/high-school-football-elyria-catholic-football-gets-three-years-probation-for-recruiting-violations/

sherm03;574665 wrote:You should check again. St Henry, Coldwater, Versailles, and Maria Stein Marion Local have 17 state championships. Look again man.

All great teams with no soccer programs. All very close nit community's with very large farm boys and girls. All D-5 and D-6 programs. They should win every year with the type of demographics they have. 95% of D-5 and D-6 football is very bad in Ohio.

skank;574640 wrote:I'll tell ya what, when you see something that's "fair", you let me know.

Sorry, can't see "fair" beyond our public school trophy case. A bunch of them are really shiny and say "state champions" on them. Be sure to keep telling your kids they can't accomplish this, it makes it that much easier for ours to keep winning them.

queencitybuckeye;575286 wrote:Sorry, can't see "fair" beyond our public school trophy case. A bunch of them are really shiny and say "state champions" on them. Be sure to keep telling your kids they can't accomplish this, it makes it that much easier for ours to keep winning them.

I bet the "shiny" ones keep you busy for hours on end. No comments on the link I provided huh? Why, btw, would I tell Massillon kids that? I mean we have been very close many times, but the ORIGINAL "Queencity" all star team, (Moeller), stopped us twice. Oh, then the 'New Era' "Queencity" all star team prevented us from doing it. And then several times in between, the RockyRiverBrecksvilleNorthOlmsteadFallsWestlake Wildcat All star team was the stopper there.