jmog;503439 wrote:... almost every teacher I've ever talked to gets their 10 month salary stretched into 12 ...

Why in the world would anyone do that?????

If you want to pay me all my money for the 10 months in one lump sum at the start of my contract I'll take it! I certainly wouldn't want you to extend it 2 months past when I worked.

thedynasty1998;503514 wrote:And then they complain that they have to stay a couple hours after school, guess what, the rest of the world works until 5 or 6 anyways.

Or 7 . . . or 8 . . . or 9. Teachers usually respond to this line of argument by saying, "But we have to grade papers in the evening, too!" I don't think the issue is that people don't understand how many hours teachers work; I think it tends to be that teachers don't understand how many hours the rest of us work.

Unfortunately I agree with the ex-Texan, my father has learned a lot vicariously through my wife and I how the private sector works, but still takes for granted all the benefits he's received (actual vacation time, that accrues!, pensions!) that is just in a different world than where we live. It isn't just a matter of 'hours worked', but the scheduling and manner of working. My brother played baseball, I played baseball and basketball in HS - the number of games my father missed = 0. If my wife and I had two sons in HS right now, the question would be what number of games we could possibly attend. Leaving aside salary, it would be nice to have a stable job in a steady location where you know your schedule and it happens to match up with your kids' schedule. Many Americans don't have such a job.

Allright, Listen up

THIS PAST SUMMER:

1) I worked until the end of June
2) I had to be back for the teachers first day on August 15
3) I received my last paycheck on May 28th, and did not receive my next check until August 10th
4) I, as required by law, spent part of my six weeks off taking courses at my own expense so I could renew my license

Some teacher may get paid during the summer, my district does not do that

Some teachers may get the luxury of 3 months, I, as stated, got about 1 1/2 months.


CURRENTLY THIS YEAR
1) I have to be at work at 7am and I do not leave until 5pm because of tutoring which I am required to do
2) about to days a week I actually work from 7am-7pm or 7am-8pm because of evening rehearsals or chaperoning events which I am required to do.
3) I work about two saturdays every month because of concerts which are part of my job, chaperoning which happens to fall on the weekends, etc.

I DID NOT INCLUDE:
The time which I spend coaching football
The time which I spend supervising Saturday Schools
The time on Sundays which I go in to the school and prep for the coming week

I work about 60 hours a week, plus football coaching, so don't give me this bullshit about we don't understand what it's like to work long hours. I've worked other jobs, I know what thats like.

I AM NOT TRYING TO CLAIM
That we are underpaid. I already said that teachers are paid fine, although the starting salaries of some rural Ohio districts are pretty bad.
That we work more hours than other people. My dad is an office manager and he also works about 60 hours a week.
That we don't get time off during the summer. Obviously we do, but it is not nearly as much as you all think.

I AM CLAIMING:
That I would sure like to know how the hell you all became experts on teachers hours and duties.
That I do in fact work 60 hours a week, and I'd sure as hell like anyone to try and prove otherwise.
That I don't get paid during the summer. If you do, great, I am sure some, if not most teachers do, but I don't.
That I, as stated, really only got about 1 1/2 months off, not three. Don't misunderstand me, I realize that is in fact time off that no other profession gets and I love it, I'm not complaining, but seriously, it's not where close to three months.

Okay, ClayAikenation really got to me, and I am pretty pissed at him, but I am not meaning to attack anyone else. I realize lots of teachers get paid during the summer and that because of the subject area I teach and my districts calender, some teachers may get more time off than me. I am not meaning to attack anyone, but listed above is where I am.

"That I would sure like to know how the hell you all became experts on teachers hours and duties."

Ideally because we all attended school and saw their hours and duties. That, plus some of us are related to teachers.

You attended school is all well and good, but for every hours I spend with students (about 35-40 hours a week), I also spend about 30-45 mintues doing other stuff when they aren't around (another 20-25 hours a week).

I work with a teacher who everytime this person has a problem she always says "Well they just don't understand what I go through with my program." Literally every time, and it is annoying as hell. She works about 50 hours a week and then goes home and takes care of her family, and constantly points out that I as a bachelor has it so easy.

I am amazed at this attitude, where she thinks she works harder than anyone else. Teachers don't work harder, other people have families as well, and I get pretty annoyed with her attitude.

I am not trying to claim that we have the hardest job in the world, but don't think we work 30-40 hours a week and then go home.

redfalcon;503540 wrote:Allright, Listen up

THIS PAST SUMMER:

1) I worked until the end of June
2) I had to be back for the teachers first day on August 15
3) I received my last paycheck on May 28th, and did not receive my next check until August 10th
4) I, as required by law, spent part of my six weeks off taking courses at my own expense so I could renew my license

Some teacher may get paid during the summer, my district does not do that

Some teachers may get the luxury of 3 months, I, as stated, got about 1 1/2 months.


CURRENTLY THIS YEAR
1) I have to be at work at 7am and I do not leave until 5pm because of tutoring which I am required to do
2) about to days a week I actually work from 7am-7pm or 7am-8pm because of evening rehearsals or chaperoning events which I am required to do.
3) I work about two saturdays every month because of concerts which are part of my job, chaperoning which happens to fall on the weekends, etc.

I DID NOT INCLUDE:
The time which I spend coaching football
The time which I spend supervising Saturday Schools
The time on Sundays which I go in to the school and prep for the coming week

I work about 60 hours a week, plus football coaching, so don't give me this bullshit about we don't understand what it's like to work long hours. I've worked other jobs, I know what thats like.

I AM NOT TRYING TO CLAIM
That we are underpaid. I already said that teachers are paid fine, although the starting salaries of some rural Ohio districts are pretty bad.
That we work more hours than other people. My dad is an office manager and he also works about 60 hours a week.
That we don't get time off during the summer. Obviously we do, but it is not nearly as much as you all think.

I AM CLAIMING:
That I would sure like to know how the hell you all became experts on teachers hours and duties.
That I do in fact work 60 hours a week, and I'd sure as hell like anyone to try and prove otherwise.
That I don't get paid during the summer. If you do, great, I am sure some, if not most teachers do, but I don't.
That I, as stated, really only got about 1 1/2 months off, not three. Don't misunderstand me, I realize that is in fact time off that no other profession gets and I love it, I'm not complaining, but seriously, it's not where close to three months.

and the regular working person does that while working 40+ hours per week 50 weeks per year

I have quite a few friends who are teachers, taught myself for a couple years (yes, at a university, but still had the same responsibilities) so I have a "feel" for what teachers' hours/responsibilities are.

I still stand by the fact that we are "paid just right." I never complain about what I am paid, and I am extremely grateful for the raises I get. I have to pay for some schooling right now, but it only helps me advance my career.

I'm sorry, but to me... it just boils down to jealousy. People are jealous of the "benefits" and amenities of a teacher's job. If you are not jealous, then why complain? I don't complain about a factory worker's wages (less schooling than me, yet paid higher) b/c I don't want to do what they are doing, and it has no bearing on how I choose to live my own life.

A retired gym teacher always told me this. When people would give him crap about being a phys. ed. teacher, he would always respond... "This is why I went to college, and what I went to be. If you want my job that badly, go to college, earn it, and it's yours."

LJ;503565 wrote:and the regular working person does that while working 40+ hours per week 50 weeks per year

And if you look again, I never claimed that anyone else didn't. I in fact even stated that many other professions work just as much as we do.

I am just getting very frustrated at the people who are claiming that teachers work 35 hours a week and complain about their salaries. Our salaries are fine, except for some beginning rural districts where they pay peanuts, and that we work many more hours than some people seem to think.

redfalcon;503580 wrote:And if you look again, I never claimed that anyone else didn't. I in fact even stated that many other professions work just as much as we do.

I am just getting very frustrated at the people who are claiming that teachers work 35 hours a week and complain about their salaries. Our salaries are fine, except for some beginning rural districts where they pay peanuts, and that we work many more hours than some people seem to think.

The bolded part is the key point: other professions work more than you do. I understand you don't get a full three months off in the summer and maybe you are right when you break it down it is only one month: that is still three to four weeks more than the average professional worker. That is a big difference. Throw in Christmas when you get two weeks off (while most professional workers might get a long weekend) and Spring Break (professionals don't get Spring Break unless they purposely take the time off on vacation) and you are way ahead. Those days alone are at least two months of work teachers are off that the average worker is still in the office pounding out 50 hour+ work weeks. That's a minimum of 400 working hours.

Little Danny;503609 wrote:The bolded part is the key point: other professions work more than you do. I understand you don't get a full three months off in the summer and maybe you are right when you break it down it is only one month: that is still three to four weeks more than the average professional worker. That is a big difference. Throw in Christmas when you get two weeks off (while most professional workers might get a long weekend) and Spring Break (professionals don't get Spring Break unless they purposely take the time off on vacation) and you are way ahead. Those days alone are at least two months of work teachers are off that the average worker is still in the office pounding out 50 hour+ work weeks. That's a minimum of 400 working hours.

You see, this is why I am getting annoyed. Yes, I get two weeks off for Christmas, but the district over from me only gets a week. My district does not have a spring break.

People are assuming that all of the school districts in the world do the same thing as their local district or the one they went to school at.

Otherwise you are just restating what I have already said. Yes, we get more time off, but it is often not nearly as much as most people would like to think.

Ernest said it best.

If you are so jealous, then quit your job and come get a teaching job.

In Ohio... 180 days of school. You can choose to go to those 180 days whenever. If you choose to have 2 week Christmas and 1 week SB, that's fine. You will just get out later than other schools around you.

"People are jealous of the "benefits" and amenities of a teacher's job. "

There probably is something to that, but the benefits teachers get vis a vis most jobs in the private sector aren't just good.....they are incredible. My father has 104 sick/vacation days accrued from teaching the past 9 years in his current district (he 'retired' from his first district after teaching there for 31 years) - the sick/vacation days he got from his first disctrict was paid out when he retired. Unfortunately he might have to use all of his current days to take care of my mother but he could practically not teach at all for months and still draw 100% of his salary (plus his pension). Every place we've worked had a 'use it or lose it' policy. There was never a concept of getting paid for unused days, or accruing year over year.

Manhattan Buckeye;503621 wrote:"People are jealous of the "benefits" and amenities of a teacher's job. "

There probably is something to that, but the benefits teachers get vis a vis most jobs in the private sector aren't just good.....they are incredible. My father has 104 sick/vacation days accrued from teaching the past 9 years in his current district (he 'retired' from his first district after teaching there for 31 years) - the sick/vacation days he got from his first disctrict was paid out when he retired. Unfortunately he might have to use all of his current days to take care of my mother but he could practically not teach at all for months and still draw 100% of his salary (plus his pension). Every place we've worked had a 'use it or lose it' policy. There was never a concept of getting paid for unused days, or accruing year over year.

I honestly don't know what to tell you, besides... "It is what it is." I do not make the system up, so how can I be to blame?

ernest_t_bass;503619 wrote:In Ohio... 180 days of school. You can choose to go to those 180 days whenever. If you choose to have 2 week Christmas and 1 week SB, that's fine. You will just get out later than other schools around you.

180 days would be 36 weeks of work if you worked M-F. That gives you 16 weeks of vacation.

If it wasn't for all the little brats I would think about it.

" so how can I be to blame? "

You aren't to be blamed at all. But your salary/benefits are borne primarily by taxpayers, who are increasingly stressed -if not broke. The public/private sector divide should be at least understandable.

Being a teacher won't make you rich by any means, but it is a nice lifestyle that provides for a steady schedule and as much job/income security as one can have in this economy (my father never even had to take a paycut - I had to take a paycut 3 times in a span of 5 years) with an actual concept of retirement. There are far worse jobs to have.

I see what you are saying MB. But I'm not going to sit here and defend my profession, as I don't see the need. It "is what it is." If the general public votes to lower my wage, I have to go with it.

What about government officials?
What about congressmen?
What about police officers, etc?
What about school admins?

I have no idea what each of these above make (except school admins) but they are all paid by tax dollars, right? So, if we are evaluating what teachers make, we should hold each paid-by-taxes position equally.

ernest_t_bass;503647 wrote:I see what you are saying MB. But I'm not going to sit here and defend my profession, as I don't see the need. It "is what it is." If the general public votes to lower my wage, I have to go with it.

What about government officials?
What about congressmen?
What about police officers, etc?
What about school admins?

I have no idea what each of these above make (except school admins) but they are all paid by tax dollars, right? So, if we are evaluating what teachers make, we should hold each paid-by-taxes position equally.

Yes! When tax revenue goes down then all spending should absolutely be reveiwed. I'm not saying teachers should be paid less, but it amazes me that people in government don't understand that when things are tight they need to reduce spending. And then people need to understand if they don't vote to fund services they will have fewer services. You can not have it both ways.

FatHobbit;503630 wrote:180 days would be 36 weeks of work if you worked M-F. That gives you 16 weeks of vacation.

If I was able to get 16 weeks off of work per year to do the schooling I need and want to do I would never ever tell someone that they are overstating the time I get off. I work 50-60 hours per week and go to school at night and I don't get all that tome off.

I think most who "complain" about teachers benefits typically do so either after or because of hearing teachers "complain" about their "low" salaries. At that point you see people pointing ot the added benefits that teachers get over everyone else.

I never did the math, but 180 days is most definitely 36 weeks.

Now, a typical private sector employee gets 2 weeks vacation and maybe 10 holidays so thats a total of 4 weeks paid time off. 4 weeks vs 16 weeks when you throw in the other benefits teachers get I would say far outweighs the lower salaries.

So I think the "animosity" is borne out of some teachers who complain about their payscale and not as much jealousy over the benefits.

I think that there might be something to not putting the burden on the taxpayer. I bet most parents would not mind paying about $3,000 a year per kid (approximate amount at St. Michaels in Dublin, OH) k-8 and about $7,000 per year per kid for 9-12 (St. Charles Prep, Columbus OH). This way parents can pay for the education they want for their kids, the taxpayer no longer foots the bill, and schools can competively compete to attract the best teachers. This would also allow schools to selectively admit students and take care of the problem student issue.

Families that can't afford to send their kids to schools can home school, without state provided curriculum and support, of course.

All sports would be pay to participate and these would cost extra, same as music, drama, etc... Extra tutoring time could be paid for out of pocket as needed.
Individual schools could teach what they deemed important and not be under the gun to teach a state or national curriculum.

This eliminates the "animosity" that might exist on both sides of the teacher pay issue. I think teachers get paid about right as it is.

Keep in mind that students get 180, teacher get closer to 200, so that is another month they work.