redfalcon;560906 wrote:The district to the north of mine riffed 15 teachers last year. Some of them had tenure. One of them was a friend of mine.

I've seen it.

Yes it happens, at the beginning of the school year. And they see it coming.

Does your district RIF every Friday?

Again, how much money would you accept knowing that every Friday no one will get fired?

Manhattan Buckeye;560894 wrote:I don't know what you are talking about.

'Extra' is expected in the private sector. My wife is going to Jersey tomorrow morning. Her employer didn't ask her if we had dog/kid sitters in place, it wasn't an option. This is what you do. I don't want her to go to Jersey. It wasn't in her 'contract.' But this is how things work. Where the work is, you do it. Certainly her company foots the bill for her travel expenses and hotel, but she doesn't get paid overtime or get a cookie because she's away from her family for a few days.

That is reality - public school teachers seem to not understand this.

But... what I don't think YOU understand, is that these things ARE in a teacher's contract, so the teacher has every right to abide to the terms of that contract.

Manhattan Buckeye;560901 wrote:Again, how many teachers here saw someone being laid off?

I have. Postions "let go," departments "chopped," etc. Not many schools have industrial arts anymore. Maybe not a solid comparison to what is going on now, but I've seen people being let go.

(Before you jump down my throat, I answered your question that was stated).

ernest_t_bass;560911 wrote:But... what I don't think YOU understand, is that these things ARE in a teacher's contract, so the teacher has every right to abide to the terms of that contract.

Fair enough. Then your contract is your contract. Don't do more, don't expect more. Just don't bitch that people think you are overcompensated when the private sector (again - the people paying your salary) is suffering.

No one is immune in this recession. And government workers (including teachers) might have to deal with additional stigma. In my humble opinion dealing with people complaining that you make too much is far better than dealing with lay-offs, not being able to pay the mortgage, etc.

Then again, that's just me.

So you think that being given two weeks notice makes losing your job that much more special?

Sure, I understand how devastating it can be to walk in to an office and be told your not coming in tomorrow, it has happened to me twice, but losing your job is still losing your job, and it sucks, especially for those people who had families and mortgages, I don't care if it is one a one day notice or a one month notice.

Manhattan Buckeye;560909 wrote:Yes it happens, at the beginning of the school year. And they see it coming.

Does your district RIF every Friday?

Again, how much money would you accept knowing that every Friday no one will get fired?

It doesn't happen in education b/c most of the teacher jobs being "riffed" every Friday would not be easily replaceable. There is a big difference between an assembly line worker and an educated teacher. I know that you are probably not referring to an assembly line worker, but I did for this post.

Manhattan Buckeye;560917 wrote:Fair enough. Then your contract is your contract. Don't do more, don't expect more. Just don't bitch that people think you are overcompensated when the private sector (again - the people paying your salary) is suffering.

No one is immune in this recession. And government workers (including teachers) might have to deal with additional stigma. In my humble opinion dealing with people complaining that you make too much is far better than dealing with lay-offs, not being able to pay the mortgage, etc.

Then again, that's just me.

Again, you're lumping me in with the people who DO bitch. Not really fair to assume all teachers are the same.

Manhattan Buckeye;560909 wrote:Yes it happens, at the beginning of the school year. And they see it coming.

Does your district RIF every Friday?

Again, how much money would you accept knowing that every Friday no one will get fired?

This is really an irrelevant argument.

Unlike the 'real world' (as you put it), school distrricts know exactly how much in 'revenue' they will take in at the beginning of each year. Therefore, they can calculate their need for teachers for that school year based on the number of students to be taught, the number of classes that are mandated for them, etc. Your 'RIF every Friday' analogy does not translate.

Here is one other little tidbit that those who espouse that 'school districts should be run like a business......' School districts have absolutely no control over half of the financial equation of making recvenue equal expenses in that they have no control over the revenue half of the equation. In fact, in the State of Ohio right now, our district is faced with a 15 MILLION dollar revenue reduction, mandated by the State of Ohio, fopr the phasing out of the tangible property tax.

How to remedy that issue....you can't make it up by selling more or different widgets and increasing revenue.

3 years ago when our levy didnt pass two days later lots of my friends got letters in the mail without prior notice that their jobs were eliminated many of these had tenure and had no clue this was coming......

last year a first year teacher after teaching the whole year(an amazing teacher btw) was told with three weeks left in the year that she wouldnt be back. My principal who is also one of my best friends had to notify 4 teachers in one day that they lost their jobs. he said it was the hardest thing he ever had to do.

on a side note i dont want to come off as if i feel we are entitled to anything or that i dont feel the crunch that others in the private sector are feeling. its just that i have been jealous of them for many years myself for times when things were going well with them and i was broke. If i had it to do over i would have become a lawyer like my brother. I look at his job and when he was in college all he did was golf and go to a few classes and now all he does is golf and go to lunch and here and there type some briefs or whatever and makes waaay more than me.(not an indictment on lawyers or how hard they work just and isolated example) my point is now that things arent that well with the economy its hard for me to feel bad for those i have been envious of for years.

Gblock......I am closely tied to the legal field. If you honestly think that that is all lawyers do is play golf and go to lunch, you are living in la la land.

Scarlet_Buckeye;560960 wrote:Gblock......I am closely tied to the legal field. If you honestly think that that is all lawyers do is play golf and go to lunch, you are living in la la land.

How is his assumption any different from the assumptions people are making about ALL teachers? He knows a lawyer, the lawyer does what he listed. How is that any different?

For all to enjoy. This is not to answer to an argument, create a position, etc. It is just something that was shared in a Masters class, and I figured I'd share it with all of you.

[video=youtube;dMwFhg80g5c][/video]

ernest_t_bass;560995 wrote:For all to enjoy. This is not to answer to an argument, create a position, etc. It is just something that was shared in a Masters class, and I figured I'd share it with all of you.

[video=youtube;dMwFhg80g5c][/video]

Interesting video. Andy Bernard would love that Cornell was in that list! Isn't Cornell a safety school?

Scarlet_Buckeye;560960 wrote:Gblock......I am closely tied to the legal field. If you honestly think that that is all lawyers do is play golf and go to lunch, you are living in la la land.

just showing how it can look to an outsider how they know what you do but in reality you do a lot more. i obviously dont think that. but he does do a lot of both and calls it "business"

Golfing/dinners could be business if he is entertaining clients. Bringing in new clients/keeping the current clients happy is a huge part of the legal profession. In fact, if you don't bring in clients you are in serious trouble! There's much more to the legal profession than filing motions and arguing in a court of law.

Little Danny;561361 wrote:Golfing/dinners could be business if he is entertaining clients. Bringing in new clients/keeping the current clients happy is a huge part of the legal profession. In fact, if you don't bring in clients you are in serious trouble! There's much more to the legal profession than filing motions and arguing in a court of law.

This is correct. As long as the population stays somewhat intact, the teaching community can enjoy a continuing need for its services. Not too many 4th grade teachers have to go out and present their work in a beauty show in order to get kids into the classroom, it is a product of their environment. Lawyers don't only have to be good at their specialty, they have to sell it. Law schools do not teach sales.

Manhattan Buckeye;561435 wrote:This is correct. As long as the population stays somewhat intact, the teaching community can enjoy a continuing need for its services. Not too many 4th grade teachers have to go out and present their work in a beauty show in order to get kids into the classroom, it is a product of their environment. Lawyers don't only have to be good at their specialty, they have to sell it. Law schools do not teach sales.

i really do get it what lawyers do....i was really trying to be sarcastic i guess that didnt come across, but i really would have become a lawyer if i had it to do all over again. i am jealous.