BoatShoes;486051 wrote:Well, take for instance some 20 somethings who's insurance previously was too expensive for them but now they can go on their parent's insurance until they're 26...dramatically cheaper for them. Now please let me be clear, I'm not saying that this doesn't bit e for you or for your Uncle or for many others...just pointing out there are some people who definitely have cheaper access to healthcare now. A 24 year old Subway Sandwich Artist now has an avenue for cheap access to healthcare. Just sayin.

Most in their 20's can get high deductible catastrophic health insurance for less than their cell phone plan. The key is protection against catastrophic health care costs. Not coverage for a $1,500 broken leg someone got while skiing. Unless one is willing to pay a high premium one should not expect non catastrophic costs to be payed for by anyone but themselves.

Personally I feel that private health insurance should go away we don't need them taking 25 to 30 percent of our health dollars. Do I think the government can run our health care program NO WAY.

Private health care is no different than a socialist ran program. If we both purchase health care from the same private provider and you stay healthy and I get sick they will use your health dollars to fix my problems. Private health care and hazard insurance companies are nothing more than Predators feeding off the people who create and repair what was created. That also goes for bankers, politicians and investment agents. None of them provide a service that actually benefits mankind.

We have been and are in an eternal war between the productive (those who produce more than they consume) and the greedy (those who consume more than they produce). Civilizations rise (honesty in control) and fall (predators in control).

cosmosprivateer;486811 wrote:Personally I feel that private health insurance should go away we don't need them taking 25 to 30 percent of our health dollars. Do I think the government can run our health care program NO WAY.
.

Then what do you suggest?

majorspark;486687 wrote:Most in their 20's can get high deductible catastrophic health insurance for less than their cell phone plan. The key is protection against catastrophic health care costs. Not coverage for a $1,500 broken leg someone got while skiing. Unless one is willing to pay a high premium one should not expect non catastrophic costs to be payed for by anyone but themselves.

Once again, the major hits it out of the park. Interesting linkage to a cell phone plan.....now you're asking people to make economic decisions for themselves. How dare you?!!

believer;486318 wrote:The answer by liberals is always, "No need to work hard and achieve. We'll just confiscate the labor earned by the hard worker and make the greedy bastards pay for your health care."

Resources are indeed scarce but as usual, you leftists live by the "Finite Pie Theory." The pie is only so big so we all need to suck it up and sacrifice our labor for the common good.

I see the pie as something that can be grown. And the pie can grow if you stop adding people to the government entitlement train and get off the backs of the innovators and producers.

If you convince enough people that the pie can't grow and that the only way out is to allow the government to control their lives, then the incentive to be self-sufficient, to innovate, and to be creative flies right out the door. They become stagnant and dependent.

There will always be a need for bartenders, waitresses, and retail clerks and someone, somewhere will fill those slots. But I am NOT responsible for paying their health care bill.

What are your sources for all those claims you made? Just who said "We'll just confiscate the labor earned by the hard worker and make the greedy bastards pay for your health care." Yes I know rush told you someone said that.LOL

Lets eliminate all the government subsidies and corporate tax breaks I don't think I should be pay those either.

Bigdogg;487032 wrote:
Lets eliminate all the government subsidies and corporate tax breaks I don't think I should be pay those either.

1. You do pay for subsidies.
2. You do not pay for corporate tax breaks. That is just money not collected, it is not money the government is paying out.

jmog;487059 wrote:1. You do pay for subsidies.
2. You do not pay for corporate tax breaks. That is just money not collected, it is not money the government is paying out.

Oh and if you want to impose higher taxes on business or corporations -- all you're really doing is taxing yourself, because those costs get passed right back to the consumer. It's a zero sum game, but some libs like to think that companies are a honeypot of money just ready to be taken.

majorspark;486687 wrote:Most in their 20's can get high deductible catastrophic health insurance for less than their cell phone plan. The key is protection against catastrophic health care costs. Not coverage for a $1,500 broken leg someone got while skiing. Unless one is willing to pay a high premium one should not expect non catastrophic costs to be payed for by anyone but themselves.

My senior year of college (2007) I had a personal health insurance ploicy that is better than I have now and it was 120 per month. Full coverage, not just high deduct insurance

Young healthy males can get really cheap health insurance if they shop around. Females are the ones who run into affordability problems

LJ;487187 wrote:My senior year of college (2007) I had a personal health insurance ploicy that is better than I have now and it was 120 per month. Full coverage, not just high deduct insurance

Young healthy males can get really cheap health insurance if they shop around. Females are the ones who run into affordability problems

Females are very affordable as well, if they don't get pregnancy coverage.

Bigdogg;487032 wrote:What are your sources for all those claims you made? Just who said "We'll just confiscate the labor earned by the hard worker and make the greedy bastards pay for your health care."

Ummmmm let me think on that a moment...ObamaKare?

Bigdogg;487032 wrote:Lets eliminate all the government subsidies....

I agree. It's time to make welfare, Food Stamps, and Medicaid workfare.

Bigdogg;487032 wrote:....and corporate tax breaks I don't think I should be pay those either.

I agree. Let's stop giving those eeeeeeevil job creating profit mongering businesses tax breaks so they can pass those costs on to the consumer. Oh wait...that'd be you and me. Never mind.

Since i graduated college, i've been paying about $100 a month for a pretty good health care plan, even covers me while i'm in NZ (i'm eligible for public health care, but it is nice to have a private option as well.)

There are current options available in the states, that are affordable...

with that said, i think health care reform NEEDS to take place in the states, make it more affordable, etc., etc. But, the health care bill passed is a disaster and isn't going to do much good, IMO.

A software program written so that we can pool all our health care dollars in one fund. Of course the cost to we the people should be based on life style and if you don't use the funds you put in maybe a refund to your family at the time of your death.

AP polll
2 to 1 the criticism of Obamacare is not that it does too much, but that it does not go far enough.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_poll

isadore;497763 wrote:AP polll
2 to 1 the criticism of Obamacare is not that it does too much, but that it does not go far enough.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_poll

I think everybody can agree that this bill doesn't REFORM anything. So why call it reform?

We've got 4 things going on:

1. More government
2. People can stay on the insurance of the parents until they're almost 30 freakin years old
3. Higher costs
4. A "Force or Fine" program

Absolutely NONE of that is "reform".

CenterBHSFan;497839 wrote:I think everybody can agree that this bill doesn't REFORM anything. So why call it reform?

We've got 4 things going on:

1. More government
2. People can stay on the insurance of the parents until they're almost 30 freakin years old
3. Higher costs
4. A "Force or Fine" program

Absolutely NONE of that is "reform".

More not less
“The poll found that about four in 10 adults think the new law did not go far enough to change the health care system, regardless of whether they support the law, oppose it or remain neutral. On the other side, about one in five say they oppose the law because they think the federal government should not be involved in health care at all.”

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2010/09/26/news/doc4c9e0534da77b254488393.txt

That poll right there shows that the health care reform bill is alot more popular than the neocons what to say

BoatShoes;485046 wrote:The world needs retail sales clerks, bartenders, etc. too and they ought to be able to get affordable health care...I don't have all of the answers but if my healthcare is more expensive and I'm lucky enough to have a good job...I suppose I can live with that if it's subsidizing the healthcare of the people who check me out at the grocery store, get me drunk on the weekends and bring me food when I take my girl out.

i have to agree...a girl i know who works two jobs one as a dental assitant and one as a bartender can now get some insurance for her and her daughter.....i know that she had acess to some medicade type of care for her daughter before but when she got sick and had to go to the er it cost her 5000 bucks that she didnt have and ruined her credit...after that she would just not go and that is not healthy...people like her deserve the opportunity to get covered. if this bill does that i support it...

Gblock;499190 wrote:i have to agree...a girl i know who works two jobs one as a dental assitant and one as a bartender can now get some insurance for her and her daughter.....i know that she had acess to some medicade type of care for her daughter before but when she got sick and had to go to the er it cost her 5000 bucks that she didnt have and ruined her credit...after that she would just not go and that is not healthy...people like her deserve the opportunity to get covered. if this bill does that i support it...

If she couldn't afford it before, how would she afford it now? Prices/premiums/deductibles are going up.
*The only person between that mother/daughter who will benefit, is that the daughter will be able to mooch off of her mothers insurance (if she can afford it) until she's almost 30.

CenterBHSFan;499409 wrote:If she couldn't afford it before, how would she afford it now? Prices/premiums/deductibles are going up.
*The only person between that mother/daughter who will benefit, is that the daughter will be able to mooch off of her mothers insurance (if she can afford it) until she's almost 30.

Now Center....How many times have a told you it's not fair to argue logic and facts with the "government must provide us with 'free' health care" types?

believer;499441 wrote:Now Center....How many times have a told you it's not fair to argue logic and facts with the "government must provide us with 'free' health care" types?

Just keeping up the good fight!

CenterBHSFan;499409 wrote:If she couldn't afford it before, how would she afford it now? Prices/premiums/deductibles are going up.
*The only person between that mother/daughter who will benefit, is that the daughter will be able to mooch off of her mothers insurance (if she can afford it) until she's almost 30.

i said "if " this bill allows her to get covered I support it.....

Gblock;499190 wrote:i have to agree...a girl i know who works two jobs one as a dental assitant and one as a bartender can now get some insurance for her and her daughter.....i know that she had acess to some medicade type of care for her daughter before but when she got sick and had to go to the er it cost her 5000 bucks that she didnt have and ruined her credit...after that she would just not go and that is not healthy...people like her deserve the opportunity to get covered. if this bill does that i support it...

Under Ohio's income guidelines her daughter would be covered by medicaid if the family monthly gross income was less than $2,429. The mother could have been covered as well if her monthly gross income was less than $1,093. So I am assuming from what you say she would fall somewhere in between. Her daughter being eligible but not her. The way I understand it the mother could purchase insurance for herself and her child would still be eligible. Depending on her age, health, and financial choices it could be affordable.

http://jfs.ohio.gov/ohp/consumers/HSHFIncomeGuidelines.pdf
http://jfs.ohio.gov/ohp/bcps/schip/

Also a $5,000 medical bill is not catastrophic. I have in my life had uncovered medical expenses of this amount. Especially when I was just starting out in life. I found the hospital very easy to work with and very sympathetic in setting up a payment plan. They charge no interest and are willing to negotiate the total cost depending on your payment commitment. They are willing to accept very low monthly payments if you put forth the effort to prove your financial status. No late charges if you miss a payment and they will not immediately ship you off to a collection agent as long as you maintain communication.

It is not in their interest to send you off to a collection agency. It takes some effort and work in negotiating but she would not have had her credit ruined if she negotiated a solution. It does not benefit the hospital to pay a collection agent on a lost cause. You would be surprised at the minimum monthly payments they will accept as long as some effort and willingness to try to pay is put forth.

Also another question is where is the father in all this? His only excuse would be his untimely passing. If this is not the case this deadbeat needs to be tracked down and forced to man up. But the possible deadbeat status of the father does not absolve the women of any responsibility. She chose to engage in risky sexual activity with a man she did not have a contractual agreement with through marriage.

She willingly chose to engage in this risky activity knowing her financial situation. But now that the financial consequences of her choices come to fruition some expect others to share even more of the burden. Even when we as a society have already legislated basic financial aids to those in need even if they made irresponsible choices in life.

I'm almost positive the hospital would charge interest if I owed them five grand. Perhaps your unfortunate situations were in a different time.

This isn't a good bill though. It's one of those things like the stimulus where if we were going to do it we should have done it completely and it could have helped or gone in a different direction. Half measures in things like this don't accomplish much.

I Wear Pants;500963 wrote:I'm almost positive the hospital would charge interest if I owed them five grand. Perhaps your unfortunate situations were in a different time.

Many of them were at a different time. But with a family of five they have not gone away. Hospitals inflate the cost of their services to account for this. I have yet even on current medical bill statements to see interest. I know the cost is inflated. If I have the benefit to have cash money up front I am able to significantly reduce my cost. I personally by choice carry high deductible insurance in order to reduce my premiums and use that savings towards unexpected spikes in medical expenses. I have a health savings account that I attempt to keep funded enough to have the monetary power to negotiate with non catastrophic spikes in medical expenses.

In the cases I do not I have the immediate funds I have found hospitals and medical care facilities easy to work with in establishing a payment plan. Far easier to work with than any one else I owe money. No doubt if I do not have the funds to pay up front the interest is hidden in the inflated cost. I am no fool. Such is life. The point is be responsible and set aside funds for health care need just like you do anything else in life. And when the unforeseen happens you have monetary power to reduce your liability. Not expect your fellow man to do so on your behalf.

majorspark;500954 wrote:Under Ohio's income guidelines her daughter would be covered by medicaid if the family monthly gross income was less than $2,429. The mother could have been covered as well if her monthly gross income was less than $1,093. So I am assuming from what you say she would fall somewhere in between. Her daughter being eligible but not her. The way I understand it the mother could purchase insurance for herself and her child would still be eligible. Depending on her age, health, and financial choices it could be affordable.

http://jfs.ohio.gov/ohp/consumers/HSHFIncomeGuidelines.pdf
http://jfs.ohio.gov/ohp/bcps/schip/

Also a $5,000 medical bill is not catastrophic. I have in my life had uncovered medical expenses of this amount. Especially when I was just starting out in life. I found the hospital very easy to work with and very sympathetic in setting up a payment plan. They charge no interest and are willing to negotiate the total cost depending on your payment commitment. They are willing to accept very low monthly payments if you put forth the effort to prove your financial status. No late charges if you miss a payment and they will not immediately ship you off to a collection agent as long as you maintain communication.

It is not in their interest to send you off to a collection agency. It takes some effort and work in negotiating but she would not have had her credit ruined if she negotiated a solution. It does not benefit the hospital to pay a collection agent on a lost cause. You would be surprised at the minimum monthly payments they will accept as long as some effort and willingness to try to pay is put forth.

Also another question is where is the father in all this? His only excuse would be his untimely passing. If this is not the case this deadbeat needs to be tracked down and forced to man up. But the possible deadbeat status of the father does not absolve the women of any responsibility. She chose to engage in risky sexual activity with a man she did not have a contractual agreement with through marriage.

She willingly chose to engage in this risky activity knowing her financial situation. But now that the financial consequences of her choices come to fruition some expect others to share even more of the burden. Even when we as a society have already legislated basic financial aids to those in need even if they made irresponsible choices in life.

the father of the kid ran a red light at two in the morning and killed someone and got 8 years in jail cuz his bac was .11....i agree with a lot of what you say i just was making the point that if this bill is legilating more into coverage they all are not deadbeats who dont work. as far as a 5000 bill not being significant i guess i have to disagree on that and i really think the bill was more cuz she stayed in the hospital two days for a very high fever but i cant remember exactly how much the bill was so i said 5000....

I also believe that with all the outreach we do all over the world financially every year everytime something happens or for all the money we give other countries in subsidies ect. there is no reason we cant give free medical care to all americans. everyone should be able to go to the doctor and not have to worry about how much it will cost imo