What else does Boise have to prove?

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trep14

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Sep 7, 2010 2:47 PM
Scarlet_Buckeye;474812 wrote:Hogwash. Boise refuses to travel and play teams away from home. Va Tech was the first game where Boise has left the stable.

I think what you meant to say was Boise prefers to play home and home series, which a lot of big time football programs do with each other (i.e. OSU vs Miami this year, @ Miami next year). It boils down to: why schedule Boise State for a home and home, risk the embarrassment of losing and not get any credit if you beat them when instead you could pay some creampuff a couple hundred thousand dollars to come in to Columbus/Gainesville/Austin for two straight years, beat them 50-0, and have two home games?
Sep 7, 2010 2:47pm
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Sep 7, 2010 2:48 PM
karen lotz;474805 wrote:There is no way to tell what kind of talks go into scheduling games. Do you think a team like OSU or Florida or Texas is going to come out and say they declined to play a Boise St or Utah because it was a lose lose situation? Boise and TCU have said they would play anyone in the country because they feel like they can compete with the big boys. They have also been trying to get a home and home series with big schools but have been unsuccessful due to big schools not wanting to miss out on the money a home game would generate.

That is convenient. Everyone dodges us but we can't tell you who. Nonsense. It is all speculation and that won't get you very far. I have no reason to believe that teams like Texas, USC, OSU - all who have played each other - are "afraid" to play little old Boise. And there's plenty of reason for the next notch below the elite to play them, so again, I have no reason to believe anyone is dodging them.
Sep 7, 2010 2:48pm
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centralbucksfan

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5,111 posts
Sep 7, 2010 2:49 PM
karen lotz;474805 wrote:There is no way to tell what kind of talks go into scheduling games. Do you think a team like OSU or Florida or Texas is going to come out and say they declined to play a Boise St or Utah because it was a lose lose situation? Boise and TCU have said they would play anyone in the country because they feel like they can compete with the big boys. They have also been trying to get a home and home series with big schools but have been unsuccessful due to big schools not wanting to miss out on the money a home game would generate.

But again, teams like OSU, Texas and Fla have their top OCC schedules done YEARS in advance. So using them doesn't work. And your right bout the money as well. Its just not as simple as many would like to believe.
Sep 7, 2010 2:49pm
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enigmaax

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4,511 posts
Sep 7, 2010 2:50 PM
trep14;474823 wrote:I think what you meant to say was Boise prefers to play home and home series, which a lot of big time football programs do. It boils down to: why schedule Boise State for a home and home, risk the embarrassment of losing and not get any credit if you beat them when instead you could pay some creampuff a couple hundred thousand dollars to come in to Columbus/Gainesville/Austin for two straight years, beat them 50-0, and have two home games?

Or you could play Texas, USC, Florida State, Miami, Ohio State....as each of your examples do for their big OOC games. Again, it isn't everyone else's job to make sure Boise State plays the right games.
Sep 7, 2010 2:50pm
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karen lotz

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Sep 7, 2010 2:58 PM
centralbucksfan;474827 wrote:But again, teams like OSU, Texas and Fla have their top OCC schedules done YEARS in advance. So using them doesn't work. And your right bout the money as well. Its just not as simple as many would like to believe.


I'm not saying they don't have their schedules done in advance. How long has Boise St been on this run of success? Dan Hawkins was still the coach when things really started moving.
Sep 7, 2010 2:58pm
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karen lotz

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Sep 7, 2010 3:00 PM
enigmaax;474829 wrote:Or you could play Texas, USC, Florida State, Miami, Ohio State....as each of your examples do for their big OOC games. Again, it isn't everyone else's job to make sure Boise State plays the right games.


Right, but they have been trying to upgrade their schedule for years and can't get anyone to commit to playing them. When they get a team like VaTech to play them, VaTech is talked about as being overrated and Boise still doesn't get the credit they deserve for going into that "neutral" environment and getting a huge win.
Sep 7, 2010 3:00pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

The Biggest Boss

13,948 posts
Sep 7, 2010 3:34 PM
I'll respond to the question by the OP. I would like to see Boise prove their worth over a full season against a good CFB schedule. Not sayin' they have to play good teams EVERY week, cause nobody does, but to play one team a season in which you won't be favored by 30pts doesn't prove a whole lot, imo. Funny thing is, I like Boise. My heart wanted them to win last night, but my head was tellin' me OSU is better off if they lose, because I honestly don't see any of the big time BCS programs going undefeated. For Boise to get in the BCS title game over a 1-loss 'Bama, OSU, Texas, Nebraska, etc.... would be a shame.
Sep 7, 2010 3:34pm
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dazedconfused

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2,662 posts
Sep 7, 2010 3:46 PM
if they're the only unbeaten or one of the two unbeatens, i say let 'em play for it all
Sep 7, 2010 3:46pm
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enigmaax

Senior Member

4,511 posts
Sep 7, 2010 4:04 PM
karen lotz;474837 wrote:Right, but they have been trying to upgrade their schedule for years and can't get anyone to commit to playing them. When they get a team like VaTech to play them, VaTech is talked about as being overrated and Boise still doesn't get the credit they deserve for going into that "neutral" environment and getting a huge win.

VT is a good win, overrated or not. The point is just that it is only one win - don't make too much out of it. There's giving credit...and then there's ending the season with one big win. That just doesn't cut it.

As long as Boise's schedule consists of the 8 or 9 conference games they play (this will probably be true even moving to the MWC, since BYU and Utah are leaving), that one win will always be impressive but will never be enough. I'll point out one more time that the elite programs get hammered all the time for playing 3 creampuffs OOC - Boise plays 2 OOC and 8 conference creampuffs. Saying that they earned a spot as an elite program for doing that isn't asking for equality at all. It is asking for special treatment because they can't help it they play shitty teams.

Again, no. BYU is going independent (finally). There are all these reasons why Boise "can't" do this or that. Basically, they want all the glory without really taking any of the risk.

The championship game is about the resume. If two people were going for a management job at a big, successful company, one has a college degree and currently manages a successful company and the other has no degree but stood in for the manager on his shift at McDonalds a couple times in the last five years - who you gonna hire? I mean, maybe one guy didn't have the money to go to college - that's not really his fault. Maybe, he has mad skills, but until he proves it, he's got to live with where he's at.
Sep 7, 2010 4:04pm
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Laley23

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Sep 7, 2010 4:30 PM
If Boise ends up in the title game and wins, will people give them credit or not? Its a fair question, because I think people will still say they shouldnt have been there, or it was only their second hard game all year.
Sep 7, 2010 4:30pm
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centralbucksfan

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5,111 posts
Sep 7, 2010 5:17 PM
Laley23;474972 wrote:If Boise ends up in the title game and wins, will people give them credit or not? Its a fair question, because I think people will still say they shouldnt have been there, or it was only their second hard game all year.

Again, thats not what the discussion is about. ITs about are they deserving based on what other teams in other conferences have to do to get there, compared to Boise. Could Boise win a title game? Certainly they could. In a one game playoff/championship, any good team on any given nite is able to do this.
The question again is, will they be deserving over others who play a much tougher schedule week in and week out.
When you look at the BCS conferences, there is always that discussion on who is the best(yes I know SEC is, so don't get panties in uproar SEC chest thumpers). But even at that, those conferences on the whole, are more competative, have better athletes, etc, etc. then what the WAC does.
As mentioned, going to VaTech and winning (with help of Beamer!) is a good quality win. But we really don't know how good, or not VaTech is to be honest. Its not like this game proved THAT much to me to be honest. No matter what Boise does from here on out, I will question how deserving they are.
Sep 7, 2010 5:17pm
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bartsimpson

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168 posts
Sep 7, 2010 5:29 PM
Let's ask this....let's insert any MAC team into this equation and see if you feel the same way.

Suppose Toledo would have beaten Arizona last Saturday.....then gets a win over a middle of the road Big Ten school (since Boise plays Oregon State, that seems about even)....then rolls thru the MAC to finish 12-0. Do they get a shot at the National Title.

That's why nobody feels like Boise should get it. Winning two games and taking the remainder of the season off to rest doesn't qualify you to play in a NC game.
Sep 7, 2010 5:29pm
se-alum's avatar

se-alum

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Sep 7, 2010 6:01 PM
karen lotz;474837 wrote:Right, but they have been trying to upgrade their schedule for years and can't get anyone to commit to playing them. When they get a team like VaTech to play them, VaTech is talked about as being overrated and Boise still doesn't get the credit they deserve for going into that "neutral" environment and getting a huge win.

They had an opportunity for a 2-for-1 deal(2 in Lincoln, 1 in Boise) with Nebraska and declined. Obviously not trying terribly hard to upgrade their schedule. It's easy for Boise St. to play the spurned little brother role. Just tell everyone that nobody wants to come play at their field(what top team would), and that way they continue to be relevant to college football.

Let's be honest, major college athletic programs CAN'T afford to go play a game in Boise, as they have huge Athletic Departments to run, basically off of their football revenues. OSU couldn't make enough money packing a 30,000 seat stadium. It just isn't logical. College football is a business, like it or not.
Sep 7, 2010 6:01pm
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I drain 3's

Senior Member

574 posts
Sep 7, 2010 6:20 PM
bartsimpson;475010 wrote:Let's ask this....let's insert any MAC team into this equation and see if you feel the same way.

Suppose Toledo would have beaten Arizona last Saturday.....then gets a win over a middle of the road Big Ten school (since Boise plays Oregon State, that seems about even)....then rolls thru the MAC to finish 12-0. Do they get a shot at the National Title.

That's why nobody feels like Boise should get it. Winning two games and taking the remainder of the season off to rest doesn't qualify you to play in a NC game.
I really hope you're not trying to compare Arizona to Virginia Tech. Not even close.
Sep 7, 2010 6:20pm
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Prescott

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2,569 posts
Sep 7, 2010 6:28 PM
I heard Bobby Bowden speak about his early years at Florida State. He said he would play anybody, anywhere in order to get some national respect for the Florida State program. It worked for him. Perhaps, Boise should adopt that philosophy.
Sep 7, 2010 6:28pm
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Fly4Fun

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7,730 posts
Sep 7, 2010 6:41 PM
bartsimpson;475010 wrote:Let's ask this....let's insert any MAC team into this equation and see if you feel the same way.

Suppose Toledo would have beaten Arizona last Saturday.....then gets a win over a middle of the road Big Ten school (since Boise plays Oregon State, that seems about even)....then rolls thru the MAC to finish 12-0. Do they get a shot at the National Title.

That's why nobody feels like Boise should get it. Winning two games and taking the remainder of the season off to rest doesn't qualify you to play in a NC game.

This is exactly it. Play more than two meaningful games a year and maybe they'll have a shot. I don't care what they have done in previous years. With a 4-5 year turnover in players what they did last year means shit. It's about the current year. And playing only two meaningful games a year means nothing.



Also, I'd love to point out that of course the AP is going to push the issue both in the polls and in the coverage. Controversy sells. This is the reason it is a good thing the AP Poll is not part of the BCS formula anymore... their profession benefits from controversy. They benefit from screwing it up intentionally.
Sep 7, 2010 6:41pm
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HeathAlum21

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363 posts
Sep 7, 2010 6:44 PM
The argument has not progressed from the first page of this thread. It seems to me each person is entrenched on one side of the fence with more on the power conference side as we are in Big 10 Country.

Interesting question though: Those against a playoff/+1 system say that the positive of the current system is that every week is a playoff in college football. Is it really a playoff each week for BSU? I would argue it is a 2 week playoff with 10 bye weeks.
Sep 7, 2010 6:44pm
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HeathAlum21

Senior Member

363 posts
Sep 7, 2010 7:25 PM
By the way, I like VT to lose two games(maybe an additional one) in the ACC this year. Yet another issue with the polls is that Boise State gets credit for beating a top 10 team, but if (when) they are no more than a decent ACC team ranked outside the top 25, their win is not adjusted accordingly.
Sep 7, 2010 7:25pm
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jordo212000

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Sep 7, 2010 8:04 PM
Tiger2003;474291 wrote:I will....This thread is a joke......and if Boise State wants to step up to the plate...leave the WAC

They have. LOL. They just entered the MTN West. You seem like you know exactly what you are talking about haha
Sep 7, 2010 8:04pm
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jordo212000

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10,664 posts
Sep 7, 2010 8:23 PM
Did somebody seriously suggest that Boise State turned down an invite to the Pac-10? That's by far the funniest thing I've heard in a while. Are people really that ignorant as to how things work? You do realize that a school has to receive an actual offer from the conference, right? I mean do you really think they were going to turn down a boat load of cash?
Sep 7, 2010 8:23pm
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justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Sep 7, 2010 8:42 PM
jordo212000;475233 wrote:Did somebody seriously suggest that Boise State turned down an invite to the Pac-10? That's by far the funniest thing I've heard in a while. Are people really that ignorant as to how things work? You do realize that a school has to receive an actual offer from the conference, right? I mean do you really think they were going to turn down a boat load of cash?

Why would they want a huge payday AND the opportunity to play for an automatic BCS berth every year?
Sep 7, 2010 8:42pm
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karen lotz

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Sep 7, 2010 8:48 PM
Exactly. Boise St and TCU were both disappointed last year when they were matched up together in the Fiesta Bowl. They are both trying to prove to everyone that they can compete with the best of the BCS conferences and last bowl season was the perfect chance to give them both a shot. Instead they are paired together to ensure that only one of them would be undefeated. The BCS didn't want to face the music if Boise St and TCU had both won BCS games last year and there were 3 undefeated teams.
Sep 7, 2010 8:48pm
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NilesPacMan

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452 posts
Sep 7, 2010 8:52 PM
Laley23;474972 wrote:If Boise ends up in the title game and wins, will people give them credit or not? Its a fair question, because I think people will still say they shouldnt have been there, or it was only their second hard game all year.

I think that the only way the fewest people will question them is if they beat an undefeated SEC champion who rolls over everyone else in that conference. There will be people who would attribute the loss to the hard schedule that the SEC team played, but if they were to beat an undefeated Alabama this year, I'd think it'd give them much kudos. I'm as big of an Ohio State fan as the next guy, but if they were to beat tOSU in the national championship, people would just call Ohio State weak despite how strong they actually are.
Sep 7, 2010 8:52pm
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enigmaax

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4,511 posts
Sep 7, 2010 8:52 PM
karen lotz;475268 wrote:Exactly. Boise St and TCU were both disappointed last year when they were matched up together in the Fiesta Bowl. They are both trying to prove to everyone that they can compete with the best of the BCS conferences and last bowl season was the perfect chance to give them both a shot. Instead they are paired together to ensure that only one of them would be undefeated. The BCS didn't want to face the music if Boise St and TCU had both won BCS games last year and there were 3 undefeated teams.

I'm actually going to agree with you on that for the most part. I won't say it was a competitive conspiracy against them, but probably money had a lot to do with it. I DO think an undefeated Boise should get BCS bowl games (same for TCU). I'm just against a national title shot.
Sep 7, 2010 8:52pm
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ytownfootball

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Sep 7, 2010 9:02 PM
there was no question in my mind that they would be paired against one another at the "kids table" BCS game. There was really no other option for the committee. I agree about deserving a bowl game for the big bucks just not the trophy.
Sep 7, 2010 9:02pm