Ender Wiggin
Posts: 1,124
Aug 28, 2010 10:24am
And I showed this to 3 of my 10 year tenured LAPD buddies out here and even they said that was way excessive and couldve been handled much differently.
And thats saying something coming from the LAPD.
And thats saying something coming from the LAPD.
Fly4Fun
Posts: 7,730
Aug 28, 2010 10:24am
Excessive force? The woman had a knife; she had to be disarmed somehow. The cop used a pretty simple and I'm assuming standard move to disarm the assailant of their weapon.
Heelz
Posts: 780
Aug 28, 2010 10:33am
Ender Wiggin;464361 wrote:And I showed this to 3 of my 10 year tenured LAPD buddies out here and even they said that was way excessive and couldve been handled much differently.
And thats saying something coming from the LAPD.
The LAPD's views on excessive force mean jack shit, they are the worst at deciding what is ok force to use
Ender Wiggin
Posts: 1,124
Aug 28, 2010 10:54am
When does common sense come in to play? Shes 87 with Alzheimers. Are you seriously telling me theres no other way to subdue someone like that? And yes she had to be subdued due to having a knife, but really, No other way? The lady could hardly walk yet a trained cop cant disarm or difuse the situation any better?
Heelz, thats the point, if LAPD says something is too much then you better believe its too much. And these are cops from the tough parts of LA, not some Beverly Hills or Malibu cops.
And I didnt see anything in the video regarding race, unless I missed it, let me know, but I didnt hear anything.
Heelz, thats the point, if LAPD says something is too much then you better believe its too much. And these are cops from the tough parts of LA, not some Beverly Hills or Malibu cops.
And I didnt see anything in the video regarding race, unless I missed it, let me know, but I didnt hear anything.
sherm03
Posts: 7,349
Aug 28, 2010 11:09am
People keep bringing up that she is 80+ years old with Alzheimers. But again, I will say...the cops did not know she had Alzheimers at the time. They show up to a scene and there is an old lady with a knife who is refusing to put it down.Ender Wiggin;464384 wrote:When does common sense come in to play? Shes 87 with Alzheimers. Are you seriously telling me theres no other way to subdue someone like that? And yes she had to be subdued due to having a knife, but really, No other way? The lady could hardly walk yet a trained cop cant disarm or difuse the situation any better?
The officer probably did go with the lesser amount of force to diffuse the situation. If that's a 6'2" twenty-something year old dude with the knife in the same situation...he probably would have gotten tazed. So I think it was pretty nice of the cops not to pump the old lady with 50,000 volts.
Art Modell
Posts: 2,338
Aug 28, 2010 11:11am
Ender Wiggin should change his username to Al Sharpton.
Ender Wiggin
Posts: 1,124
Aug 28, 2010 11:13am
That lady couldnt even move fast enough to be a threat to anyone other than herself. Like I said, when does common sense come in to play?
I just dont get it. If "lesser force" for an 87 year old woman with Alheimers that can hardly move is what happened then I really question the training methods of the police department.
When fellow cops say that cop was wrong then you know something is not right.
I just dont get it. If "lesser force" for an 87 year old woman with Alheimers that can hardly move is what happened then I really question the training methods of the police department.
When fellow cops say that cop was wrong then you know something is not right.
Ender Wiggin
Posts: 1,124
Aug 28, 2010 11:14am
Why should I change my name to Al Sharpton?
Im dying to hear some more of your usual garbage. Its been a while.
Im dying to hear some more of your usual garbage. Its been a while.
stroups
Posts: 3,223
Aug 28, 2010 11:18am
Ender Wiggin;464405 wrote: When fellow cops say that cop was wrong then you know something is not right.
You are basing that on the fact that we believe you that you know 3 cops from the LAPD with 10 + years of experience. Then they all commented that it was too much force.
Fly4Fun
Posts: 7,730
Aug 28, 2010 11:19am
The police officers job isn't to make sure the individual wielding a weapon doesn't get hurt. First they worry about the safety of those around and their own safety. I'd say the officer did a damn good job of taking care of the situation. Would you prefer the officer come in swinging around a pillow to take down the woman?Ender Wiggin;464405 wrote:That lady couldnt even move fast enough to be a threat to anyone other than herself. Like I said, when does common sense come in to play?
I just dont get it. If "lesser force" for an 87 year old woman with Alheimers that can hardly move is what happened then I really question the training methods of the police department.
When fellow cops say that cop was wrong then you know something is not right.
Sorry, but the officer asked her to put down the knife, the woman refused and the officer dealt with the problem in a reasonable fashion.
Ender Wiggin
Posts: 1,124
Aug 28, 2010 11:29am
Stroups, that makes no sense. What are you trying to say? Honestly, ask yourself, could you not think of a better way to handle the situation with a 87 year old woman who is not very mobile, she would be a threat to others.....if people were around her at the time. No one is within 15 feet of her and if you look at the video it looks like she even turns her back to the cop.
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Aug 28, 2010 11:35am
I'm not crying that the cops were in the wrong on this one. They made a decision in a situation and it did work.
However, I don't see why they couldn't have just had a second officer grab the lady's knife arm from behind while the first distracted her. Or they couldn't have just hit the knife out of her hand. But it didn't end terribly anyway so it doesn't really matter.
However, I don't see why they couldn't have just had a second officer grab the lady's knife arm from behind while the first distracted her. Or they couldn't have just hit the knife out of her hand. But it didn't end terribly anyway so it doesn't really matter.
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Aug 28, 2010 11:36am
I'm not crying that the cops were in the wrong on this one. They made a decision in a situation and it did work.
However, I don't see why they couldn't have just had a second officer grab the lady's knife arm from behind while the first distracted her. Or they couldn't have just hit the knife out of her hand. But it didn't end terribly anyway so it doesn't really matter.
However, I don't see why they couldn't have just had a second officer grab the lady's knife arm from behind while the first distracted her. Or they couldn't have just hit the knife out of her hand. But it didn't end terribly anyway so it doesn't really matter.
Heelz
Posts: 780
Aug 28, 2010 11:38am
The police tell you to do something you do it, if you don't then you get delt with, like Sherm said it was pretty nice of the police to not use the tazer. If the lady had cut someone than everyone would be screaming why didn't the police do something? Well they did this time, they told her to put the knife down 2-3 times ...she didn't ..they made her. Do you want the police to just keep asking ,say pretty please? That was probably the safest way possible for the police to disarm someone without getting harmed themselves.
Ender Wiggin
Posts: 1,124
Aug 28, 2010 11:39am
Exactly, no one said the cops shouldve just let her go on her merry way. The situation needed to be handled. People are upset that it was handled in that way.
The lady turned her back to the cop, are you telling me a trained cop cant subdue an 87 year old lady with Alzheimers who cant move very fast AND had her back toward her?
REally?
The lady turned her back to the cop, are you telling me a trained cop cant subdue an 87 year old lady with Alzheimers who cant move very fast AND had her back toward her?
REally?
Art Modell
Posts: 2,338
Aug 28, 2010 11:40am
They could of shot her Wiggin. So I guess the outcome wasn't that bad.
Ender Wiggin
Posts: 1,124
Aug 28, 2010 11:43am
Ya slamming an 87 year old with Alzheimers who had her back turned to a trained cop isnt that bad at all. Youre right. Couldve been worse.
Also, why should I change my name to Al Sharpton? Still waiting on that gem Capone.
Also, why should I change my name to Al Sharpton? Still waiting on that gem Capone.
Heelz
Posts: 780
Aug 28, 2010 11:47am
Ender Wiggin;464424 wrote:Exactly, no one said the cops shouldve just let her go on her merry way. The situation needed to be handled. People are upset that it was handled in that way.
The lady turned her back to the cop, are you telling me a trained cop cant subdue an 87 year old lady with Alzheimers who cant move very fast AND had her back toward her?
REally?
They are trained to subdue her, which is what they did there is no seperate training for different age groups, race groups height and weight . They are trained to react a certain way maybe the old lady's "handler" shouldn' t have left a crazy old lady with a knife wander around the parking lot. Would you rather them put her in a rear naked choke when she turned her back?
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Aug 28, 2010 11:49am
I guess that would be okay for someone like you. Just shoot an old lady in the street.Art Modell;464425 wrote:They could of shot her Wiggin. So I guess the outcome wasn't that bad.
While they definitely had to remove the knife (and did and I think they used maybe not the best approach but it worked without much damage so whatever) they would have clearly been in the wrong for shooting or even tazing the lady. Context is key. If it was me running around with the knife then yes, a tazing would be in order. But this is a 87 year old lady that clearly wasn't going to be making any quick movements.
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Aug 28, 2010 11:50am
Heelz;464432 wrote:They are trained to subdue her, which is what they did there is no seperate training for different age groups, race groups height and weight . They are trained to react a certain way maybe the old lady's "handler" shouldn' t have left a crazy old lady with a knife wander around the parking lot. Would you rather them put her in a rear naked choke when she turned her back?
So you're saying police are too stupid to realize that different situations require different force/solutions?
They were fine here. But acting like the lady was lucky that she didn't get shot or something is absurd. If they had shot her they would clearly have been in the wrong.
Heelz
Posts: 780
Aug 28, 2010 11:53am
I Wear Pants;464437 wrote:So you're saying police are too stupid to realize that different situations require different force/solutions?
They were fine here. But acting like the lady was lucky that she didn't get shot or something is absurd. If they had shot her they would clearly have been in the wrong.
No I'm saying they are trained to react, they asked multiple times she did not comply they made her comply.
Ender Wiggin
Posts: 1,124
Aug 28, 2010 11:54am
Heelz, are you for real right now? Come on man, thats when the common sense thing I was talking about should come in to play. Ya, 100% if an 87 year old turns their back to you FOR SURE go for a choke hold. Nevermind grabbing the hand with the knife in it or anything crazy like that.
And like Pants said, are cops a victim of their own training if they cant differentiate between situations such as that? Come on man, be real here.
And like Pants said, are cops a victim of their own training if they cant differentiate between situations such as that? Come on man, be real here.
stroups
Posts: 3,223
Aug 28, 2010 11:55am
So the lady already cut herself with that knife, what if she had aids or hepatitis? If I'm a cop I'm not willing to take a chance at her potentially cutting me.
Heelz
Posts: 780
Aug 28, 2010 12:01pm
Ender Wiggin;464442 wrote:Heelz, are you for real right now? Come on man, thats when the common sense thing I was talking about should come in to play. Ya, 100% if an 87 year old turns their back to you FOR SURE go for a choke hold. Nevermind grabbing the hand with the knife in it or anything crazy like that.
And like Pants said, are cops a victim of their own training if they cant differentiate between situations such as that? Come on man, be real here.
Haha cops the victims? Definatly not, I'm just saying they are taught that a simple take down ( which honestly might not be that bad I can't tell with the camera shaking and ebonix being spoken) is the safest ( for the cop and potential assailent) and easiest way to subdue someone.
Ender Wiggin
Posts: 1,124
Aug 28, 2010 12:01pm
....Wait, what? She cut herself now? I didnt see that in there. And would she even make it to 87 with aids or hep?