Nobody wants Tressel fired. Creativity is all we ask for.

devil1197 wrote:

jordo212000 wrote: Ohio State doesn't rebuild. Please. You act like we are some 2 bit program. One guy leaves for the NFL another replaces him.

Yeah, its not rebuilding when you replace a Heisman winner with a guy that threw 3 total passes the entire season in 2006.

Tee Martin stepped in to Tennessee after Peyton Manning left and led Tennessee to a national championship. Would Tennessee fans argue that that was a rebuilding year for them?

trep14 wrote:

devil1197 wrote:

jordo212000 wrote: Ohio State doesn't rebuild. Please. You act like we are some 2 bit program. One guy leaves for the NFL another replaces him.

Yeah, its not rebuilding when you replace a Heisman winner with a guy that threw 3 total passes the entire season in 2006.

Tee Martin stepped in to Tennessee after Peyton Manning left and led Tennessee to a national championship. Would Tennessee fans argue that that was a rebuilding year for them?

Most definitely

trep14 wrote:

devil1197 wrote:

jordo212000 wrote: Trep. There is no sense in arguing man. I still don't understand how you are rebuilding as you are playing in the National Championship. And if they were "rebuilding," I still don't understand how you end up playing in a lesser bowl the next year.

Because the experienced senior group choked and didn't show up the next season. Please don't be that arrogant in your posting to not realize the massive potential the 2008 team had and how bad they just simply choked.

If you lose this on offense along with a majoirty of the OL and DL plus other starters from the 2006 team.

2500+ passing yards, 30 TD passes/200+ rushing yards 1 TD
1200+ rushing yards, 14 TD runs
1800+ receiving yards, 19 TD receptions

Yeah, there is no rebuilding on offense there. You lose 75% of your offense production.

What "massive potential" did the 2008 team have? I just saw the same group of guys who sucked against Florida and sucked against LSU. And guess what? In 2008 they sucked against USC and sucked (albeit, sucked less) against Texas.

Its pretty clear that we were not one of the two best teams in 2007. However, that does not make it a "rebuilding" year. It's more of a testament to:
a) how terrible the Big Ten was that year
and
b) how much parity there was in college football that year

Exactly, the B10 was terrible that year and it led to a rebuilding OSU team, who will always have better talent than any B10 school, to win football games along with their terrible OOC schedule.

If you think OSU truly deserved to be in the NCG and was ready as a team to be there then I don't know what to tell you. They lost 75% of their offense from the previous season along with a host of starters. If you want to sit back and say that they deserved it for beating a weak OOC schedule with no good team and a sub par B10 conference then go ahead.

I am done arguing about the absurd statement that devil1197 made. Ohio state doesn't rebuild. Nor does any top program in the NCAA, they reload. And teams most certainly rebuild by playing in the National championship game.

This whole conversation just reeks of "whoops I made a silly comment, but I am going to continue to fight for it just to try and save face"

jordo212000 wrote: I am done arguing about the absurd statement that devil1197 made. Ohio state doesn't rebuild. Nor does any top program in the NCAA, they reload. And teams most certainly rebuild by playing in the National championship game.

This whole conversation just reeks of "whoops I made a silly comment, but I am going to continue to fight for it just to try and save face"

Do you think USC isn't rebuilding from what they lost especially on defense? It sure doesn't look like they are reloading to me giving up 30+ constantly to solid teams (Oregon State, Stanford, Oregon). Do you think Florida had to build what they lost on defense after playing OSU in the NCG? Tebow's SO year Florida had no defense at all, but yet they are an elite program that reloads right (oops 4 losses)? Now they have a defense that is experienced and basically 20+ deep but it wasn't at the moment in 2007. Both of these teams are top programs in the country but they have had to reload on certain sides of the football.

Its not a silly whoops comment, if you think putting a QB with 3 previous passes in college in for a Heisman winner isn't rebuilding at that position then ok lol. Boeckman was hardly a player that anyone would consider reloading at the QB position especially when you replace Smith. The only reason OSU didn't have 3+ losses that season was that they will continually have better talent in the B10, the B10 was terrible, and their OOC schedule was horrendous.

jordo212000 wrote: I am done arguing about the absurd statement that devil1197 made. Ohio state doesn't rebuild. Nor does any top program in the NCAA, they reload. And teams most certainly rebuild by playing in the National championship game.

This whole conversation just reeks of "whoops I made a silly comment, but I am going to continue to fight for it just to try and save face"

I agree. It's a good thing you're done arguing now.

Jordo; if every one knows what JT is going to run, why can`t they beat him

I still think Trep said it best when he asked if Tennessee was rebuilding the year they won the championship after Tee Martin replaced Peyton Manning and his records

woody wrote: Jordo; if every one knows what JT is going to run, why can`t they beat him

Do I really need to speak on the behalf of Florida, LSU, Texas, and USC?

woody wrote: Jordo; if every one knows what JT is going to run, why can`t they beat him

uhhh anybody not named Michigan, Iowa, or any of the other garbage in the Big 10 does

devil1197 wrote:

jordo212000 wrote: I am done arguing about the absurd statement that devil1197 made. Ohio state doesn't rebuild. Nor does any top program in the NCAA, they reload. And teams most certainly rebuild by playing in the National championship game.

This whole conversation just reeks of "whoops I made a silly comment, but I am going to continue to fight for it just to try and save face"

Do you think USC isn't rebuilding from what they lost especially on defense? It sure doesn't look like they are reloading to me giving up 30+ constantly to solid teams (Oregon State, Stanford, Oregon). Do you think Florida had to build what they lost on defense after playing OSU in the NCG? Tebow's SO year Florida had no defense at all, but yet they are an elite program that reloads right (oops 4 losses)? Now they have a defense that is experienced and basically 20+ deep but it wasn't at the moment in 2007. Both of these teams are top programs in the country but they have had to reload on certain sides of the football.

Its not a silly whoops comment, if you think putting a QB with 3 previous passes in college in for a Heisman winner isn't rebuilding at that position then ok lol. Boeckman was hardly a player that anyone would consider reloading at the QB position especially when you replace Smith. The only reason OSU didn't have 3+ losses that season was that they will continually have better talent in the B10, the B10 was terrible, and their OOC schedule was horrendous.

Youre bound to have a down year every once in awhile. USC is a terrible example. They have been reloading for years now. How many years have they won the rose bowl in a row now? Seriously, they had two heisman quarterbacks and a heisman running back and just plugged in players to keep the machine chugging.

As for Florida, they had a down year, but look what it resulted in it? They reloaded and won a national championship that next year.... and don't forget how good that Florida 2007 team was. They played every one of their games down to the wire and would have beaten LSU had LSU not gone 5/5 on fourth down conversions on their game winning drive....in Death Valley. Seriously, OSU "rebuilding" just comes off as a poor excuse for yet another poor performance in a game against an OOC team in the Tressel regime. It clearly wasn't rebuilding, as the team next year with all that returning "talent" didn't accomplish a thing. In fact, they responded after the pounding from LSU by getting embarrassed again at USC. Something else was wrong with that team, maybe a lack of heart, but it certainly wasn't "rebuilding". You could have put that group up that played USC last year against that same LSU team and the result would have been the same.

Its good we agree on the reasons they got there, but winning a weak big ten and there being parity in the college football world =/= a rebuilding year. Jordo said it best, rebuilding teams do not go to the nc game.

jordo212000 wrote: I still think Trep said it best when he asked if Tennessee was rebuilding the year they won the championship after Tee Martin replaced Peyton Manning and his records

Because UT returned a lot of their good weapons on offense outside of Manning. Its not like they lost everything on offense like OSU did.

Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, Peerless Price, Travis Stephens, Cedrick Wilson all returned on offense for UT along with several other starters from the 1996 team.

The 2007 UF team was talented on offense but as a team they weren't that good because their defense was terrible. What, I cannot use USC as an example? Jordo said elite teams do not rebuild, they reload. But once I use USC, who is a very good example, it is thrown away because they were "bound" to have an off year? But I thought elite teams never rebuild! With the talent USC and Florida pull in every year they shouldn't have those type of seasons correct, based on the comment that elite teams do not rebuild.

devil1197 wrote:

jordo212000 wrote: I still think Trep said it best when he asked if Tennessee was rebuilding the year they won the championship after Tee Martin replaced Peyton Manning and his records

Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, Peerless Price, Travis Stephens, Cedrick Wilson all returned on offense for UT along with several other starters from the 1996 team.

Too bad that in 1997 Peyton Manning was still there. Martin led the Vols during the '98 season, winning the NC in January of '99.

BTW, you're claiming OSU lost so much offense from 2006, which is true. But they also gained Beanie Wells as a full-time starter, who would be at least 50% of their offense for the next two years, so your point about them having to "rebuild" is very watered down, especially when you consider that Robiskie and Hartline stepped in as starters, and are both in the NFL now.

Red_Skin_Pride wrote:

devil1197 wrote:

jordo212000 wrote: I still think Trep said it best when he asked if Tennessee was rebuilding the year they won the championship after Tee Martin replaced Peyton Manning and his records

Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, Peerless Price, Travis Stephens, Cedrick Wilson all returned on offense for UT along with several other starters from the 1996 team.

Too bad that in 1997 Peyton Manning was still there. Martin led the Vols during the '98 season, winning the NC in January of '99.

BTW, you're claiming OSU lost so much offense from 2006, which is true. But they also gained Beanie Wells as a full-time starter, who would be at least 50% of their offense for the next two years, so your point about them having to "rebuild" is very watered down, especially when you consider that Robiskie and Hartline stepped in as starters, and are both in the NFL now.

Sorry, I typed 1996 instead of 1997. They all returned the year UT won the title, just a typo.

Yes, Robo and Hartline are in the NFL total: 15 catches 262 yard 1 TD. Robo cannot even get PT on the worst NFL team, as a 2nd rounder.

We are lucky to be in a great age of Buckeye football. This is one of the best decades that the Bucks have ever had. We probably won't truly appreciate it until Tressel is gone. Thanks for another title, Coach Tressel.

Al Bundy wrote: We are lucky to be in a great age of Buckeye football. This is one of the best decades that the Bucks have ever had. We probably won't truly appreciate it until Tressel is gone. Thanks for another title, Coach Tressel.

Exactly, Tressel has given us more than we could ever have hoped for. We became spoiled earlier on with BCS victories against Miami, KSU, ND. A couple tough losses lately but if Jan 1st ends in a W then the tide changes again.

Red_Skin_Pride wrote:

devil1197 wrote:

jordo212000 wrote: I still think Trep said it best when he asked if Tennessee was rebuilding the year they won the championship after Tee Martin replaced Peyton Manning and his records

Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry, Peerless Price, Travis Stephens, Cedrick Wilson all returned on offense for UT along with several other starters from the 1996 team.

Too bad that in 1997 Peyton Manning was still there. Martin led the Vols during the '98 season, winning the NC in January of '99.

BTW, you're claiming OSU lost so much offense from 2006, which is true. But they also gained Beanie Wells as a full-time starter, who would be at least 50% of their offense for the next two years, so your point about them having to "rebuild" is very watered down, especially when you consider that Robiskie and Hartline stepped in as starters, and are both in the NFL now.

Plus Jamal Lewis was out from the middle of the season on with a torn ACL the year they won the NC.

It's pretty clear that the "rebuilding" excuse is being used so we can overshadow Jim Tressel's lack of adjustments or a gameplan and the lack of discipline on that team.

devil1197 wrote: Yes, Robo and Hartline are in the NFL total: 15 catches 262 yard 1 TD. Robo cannot even get PT on the worst NFL team, as a 2nd rounder.

Hartline gets a lot of PT and Robo is in the NFL, which is really something considering something like 90+% of the guys in college do not make it. Face it your point that Ohio State was rebuilding holds no water

jordo212000 wrote:

devil1197 wrote: Yes, Robo and Hartline are in the NFL total: 15 catches 262 yard 1 TD. Robo cannot even get PT on the worst NFL team, as a 2nd rounder.

Hartline gets a lot of PT and Robo is in the NFL, which is really something considering something like 90+% of the guys in college do not make it. Face it your point that Ohio State was rebuilding holds no water

Why doesn't it? I thought you weren't going to talk about it anymore. Hartline gets a lot of PT but doesn't do shit and Robo cannot even break the starting lineup for the season unless guys are hurt or traded on a piss poor team. At least Gonzo has been productive in the NFL when playing and Ginn, who is more of a returner than WR, has made more plays then Hartline and Robo will ever make.

You say all elite teams don't rebuild, but USC seems to be rebuilding their defense and QB play (Barkley is nowhere near as good 11 TD's 10 INT's) while we all know Florida did rebuild their defense in 2007 not just reload.

If you think OSU reloaded with Boeckman and the offensive line then good for you. I mean, Smith won a Heisman while Boeckman was replaced by a true Freshman a year later.

Playing in the National championship doesn't equal a rebuilding year. I'm sorry

And again, LOL at USC being used as an example of "rebuilding". USC had a run of what, seven years in a row finishing in the top 5? Along the way they won two national championships, won numerous BCS bowls, played (competitively) in another national championship game, and replaced three heisman winners without losing a step (and also never got blown out in any bowl games). They were bound for a down year.

There is a difference between reloading and rebuilding in college football. Reloading is what USC, Florida, and LSU do (and what Ohio State is supposed to do). Rebuilding is what Michigan is going through.

And I guarantee that USC would never lose by more than 30 points in the brightest of spotlights. Heck, this "down" USC team came into the Horseshoe and beat the Big Ten champions.

trep, that's not what Jordo said. He said elite teams do not rebuild, they just reload.

Go read his comment, nowhere does it say teams are bound for a down year. Sorry.

LSU? Yes, they won their bowl game last year but I'd say a 5 loss year isn't reloading off their NCG victory. Along with 3 losses this year with Arkansas still on the schedule and their bowl game. It could be 3-5 losses the way they are playing.

devil1197 wrote: trep, that's not what Jordo said. He said elite teams do not rebuild, they just reload.

Go read his comment, nowhere does it say teams are bound for a down year. Sorry.

LSU? Yes, they won their bowl game last year but I'd say a 5 loss year isn't reloading off their NCG victory. Along with 3 losses this year with Arkansas still on the schedule and their bowl game. It could be 3-5 losses the way they are playing.

Yes they just reload. (or try to at least). Down years happen and some years you win more and sometimes you win less.

However, let's get back on track here. This whole argument started when you claimed that the year Ohio State played LSU they were rebuilding, yet were playing in the championship. That is where I came in. You really seem confused about the difference between a down year and "rebuilding".

Even in the B10 as weak as it was, OSU had the talent while rebuilding to win in the B10 because it was horrible. Then you throw the OOC schedule into the mix and it becomes worse. Ohio State, with how great they recruit, should be in the title picture for the B10 every year. Now in 2007, the B10 was terrible and it enabled a not so good Buckeyes team to slide into the NCG.

Yes, OSU made it to the national championship because of a horrible conference and OCC schedule. Add that too 4+ teams losing after the UM game and you have OSU back dooring into a title game they didn't deserve. That resulted in a young, inexperienced (in big time games since they had little to no big time games that year) getting stomped by an experienced LSU team. That LSU team then went on to lose 5 games the next season, but that's just a down year no rebuilding right?

Florida didn't have a down year in 2007 on the defensive side. They were very bad and had to rebuild their unit into what it is today. USC is having to rebuild their defense after losing the best LB core in the history of college football along with several other NFL talent.