ytownfootball;393339 wrote:No way, ND is way more relevant when winning, you know it. Point is, long term, continued lackluster performance will lead to irrelevance (even more so) than currently. I personally don't even think it's debatable.

Not only that, I wouldn't be surprised to see the BCS change their stance on ND and other at large contenders, I just don't think ND can bank on their history forever.

rock_knutne;393404 wrote:Let's remeber one thing, these things seem to go in cycles. ND struggled mightly before Lou Holtz arrived and have gone back in the tank again. It wasn't long ago that schools like OSU, USC, Oklahoma and Texas went through a similar type of spell. That fact alone will keep ND relevant.......win or lose and there wil always be a spot at the BCS table for them because of their draw.

ytownfootball;393401 wrote:Don't kid yourself, the Big 10 wants ND, but a quick perambulation through the numbers would, at least to the nose breathing average fan, suggest they don't NEED ND.

ytownfootball;393411 wrote:I agree about cycles rock, but let's be honest, ND has un-leveled the playing field against themselves with fervent rigidity.

ytownfootball;393401 wrote:Don't kid yourself, the Big 10 wants ND, but a quick perambulation through the numbers would, at least to the nose breathing average fan, suggest they don't NEED ND.

ytownfootball;393425 wrote:rock,

True, but their obstacles were not those of academic admissions/difficult course curriculum. As I said, I could live with those as a fan but would also have to accept the resulting product, something most ND fans are (also understandably so) unwilling to swallow.

rock_knutne;393460 wrote:The obstacles have been poor decisions from the former AD and administration, that's what's hindered them. You can't continually make hiring mistakes with the position of head football coach. One thing Weis proved is ND can still attract the highly sought after blue chipper and Kelly has continued on with that type of success.

You've had guys in charge that couldn't coach, couldn't recruit, couldn't develop players, who couldn't coach, recruit or develop and for a week or so, one that was a liar. That's been the problem, hopefully it's been solved this time with Brian Kelly.

Hamp89;393293 wrote:Again, who cares what the fans think? Who cares if the alumni is arrogant? Being any more or less arrogant is not going to help them win football games. Funny how you aren't arrogant and only care about winning football games and then say "the highly regarded international academic institution". LOL, because that really matters in the scheme of college football and winning games. The only tradition I would like see broken is the standards set for admitting student athletes - make this equal to the other top college football programs and ND starts getting more talent, and winning more games.

I'm all for change, if it makese sense. I just can't find any compelling reason as to how joining the Big 10 will help ND win any more games. Nothing more, nothing less. No one can answer that question, and all you want to do is spout off about arrogance and traditon, etc to make yourself look like you've made some great revelation on ND football. As I said, change is awesome, if it makes sense.

rock_knutne;393404 wrote:Let's remeber one thing, these things seem to go in cycles. ND struggled mightly before Lou Holtz arrived and have gone back in the tank again. It wasn't long ago that schools like OSU, USC, Oklahoma and Texas went through a similar type of spell. That fact alone will keep ND relevant.......win or lose and there wil always be a spot at the BCS table for them because of their draw.

killer_ewok;393880 wrote:It's a message board. If numerous replies consistute a nerve being struck then I guess all of us on here who conversate and debate are on edge.

Minus the blatant bigotry....I think there's some good debate/conversation taking place on this thread for the most part.

centralbucksfan;393868 wrote:When exactly has OSU gone thru a spell like ND did prior to Holtz, and yet again the past 10yrs? They have had an off season here or there...but over the past 50+yrs....OSU has been as consistant a winner as any college program. The longevity of each coach they have had, 10+yrs, and not the constand turnover is proof of that. Only 4 coaches over 50+yrs. Woody, Bruce, Coop and Tress. USC and OLK, yes they went thru extended dry spells. I think Texas has been pretty consistant winner overall as well.

vball10set;393835 wrote:^^^I wasn't talking to you---just move along...better yet,go watch the soccer game

vball10set;393934 wrote:my point exactly,and there's nothing wrong with that...isn't that what message boards are for? this isn't frickin' The View !!!