killer_ewok;392654 wrote:That's fine. I maintain my stance though. Because, as I said, some on here lump us all together and the entire fan base is criticized for the views/behavior of a few on here. And it's a fact that some on here lump us ND fans together and it's way off base. Not everybody does that though....hence the "some" that I typed in that last post. But I don't think you or anyone else can deny that some unfairly lump us all together and make blanket statements.

I agree that some people lump all ND fans together, but I think that happens to fans of all teams. There are idiot fans for every fanbase and they give the good fans a bad name.

Ewok...are you so starved for attention from your fat Italian Catholic girlfriend with the mustache, you need to steal some of Mooney's cred by "claiming" to have said all this previously? I don't lump you ALL together...there is definitely a distinct difference between Mooney and the rest of the OC Shamrock Shaggers.

Tiernan, you do realize you are inches away from a ban, do you not?

How about ND to the Big 12:

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2010/jun/16/notre-dame-arkansas-come-down/

"now here's a team that'll fill my stadium"

All that article proves to me is how valuable Notre Dame's brand is. Also there is no way in hell Notre Dame does that. They would lose more rivalries than if they joined the Big Ten.

Even without the white face paint doesn't Jerry Jones look like the Joker?

sleeper;392349 wrote:I'd love to see ND schedule another top notch program, like OSU, Florida, LSU, Alabama, Penn State, Texas, Oklahoma.

I almost forgot....Penn State won 77 games from 2000-2009, Notre Dame won 70. Penn State went to one BCS bowl, Notre Dame went to two. They were a collective 0-3 in BCS bowls. Is Penn State's program really top notch, or are you a biased fuck towards the Big Ten?

FatHobbit;392670 wrote:I agree that some people lump all ND fans together, but I think that happens to fans of all teams. There are idiot fans for every fanbase and they give the good fans a bad name.

Agreed that it happens to all fan bases and every school has their idiot fans. I just think that happens to ND fans quite a bit on here. I think it's bullshit that the good fans in any fan base get a bad name from the irrational fans. It's just easier to make generalizations and I think that's not the way to go about it. That's all.

Tiernan;392853 wrote:Ewok...are you so starved for attention from your fat Italian Catholic girlfriend with the mustache, you need to steal some of Mooney's cred by "claiming" to have said all this previously? I don't lump you ALL together...there is definitely a distinct difference between Mooney and the rest of the OC Shamrock Shaggers.

More ethnic insults? LOL. Wow, you're really something. I can tell when somebody is putting the bait out there. As for the other part of your post.....yes, a few of us have said similar things to what Mooney said. It's all there if you want to go look it up on here and JJ's. I've been in favor of them joining the Big 10 for some time now. And a few of my fellow Domers surely remember arguing with me about Weis when I criticized him. Not all of us agree with everything ND does and they aren't above criticism from us. So, you don't have to believe it.....we've said it before and it's out there.

I'm sure you'll continue with your bigotry now.

sjmvsfscs08;393041 wrote:I almost forgot....Penn State won 77 games from 2000-2009, Notre Dame won 70. Penn State went to one BCS bowl, Notre Dame went to two. They were a collective 0-3 in BCS bowls. Is Penn State's program really top notch, or are you a biased fuck towards the Big Ten?

Penn State went to 2 BCS games, going 1-1. They beat Florida State in the 2006 Orange Bowl and lost to USC in 2009 I think. Also, Notre Dame went 0-3 from 2000-2009, losing to Oregon State in 2001(with Ochocinco I believe), Ohio State, and LSU. But lets don't let facts get in the way.

Mooney44Cards;392387 wrote:So.....this thread about a Notre Dame fan sick of the bullshit excuses about not joining a conference turned into a thread filled with bullshit excuses about why not to join a conference.

Then I bitch about ND alumni being the worst and then comes athlete37 with this steamer of a post:

Seriously, read the bold part over again and tell me that if you heard that from any fan of any other team you wouldn't scream that it is the largest fucking load of horseshit ever. Dropping your fucking wallet?! Really?! How bout lets beat fucking Navy. Or win a bowl game after Christmas. When we can brag about football, then lets add in all the ancillary bullshit about ND being a great place, family oriented, Catholic school, blah blah blah. Until then it sounds like utter bullshit excuses to try and act holier-than-thou and give "reasons" why not to join a conference. Who gives a shit about the athletes living with the students?! I'm glad you were all one big happy family but THEY NEED TO WIN FOOTBALL GAMES and living with the fucking nerds isn't helping. So while Jimmy Clausen is jerking off with some bio-chemistry major talking about how great it is that the athletes are part of the student body, the rest of the college football world laps us like we're fucking standing still.

Notre Dame "fans" have become so obsessed with "tradition" that they forgot what precipitates tradition: WINNING. Nobody gives a fuck about the stupid traditions unless you're a winner.

Short of committing NCAA rule infractions, I will accept a Notre Dame winner at any cost. Pink jerseys, joining the Gateway Conference, giving away bobbleheads........whatever. JUST WIN and quit being so obsessed with how you're perceived by the rest of the college football world. Notre Dame is the douchebag at the bar that you can tell spent a lot of time putting gel in his hair, wearing gay Affliction shirts, fake tanning, and other bullshit but can't get the girl because he's not willing to do what's necessary to get the girl home: date rape drugs

You have no concept of what Notre Dame is and represents if you think everything is about football at that school.

And someone mentioned we haven't scheduled Texas, but we scheduled and beat them in 95 and 96

Tiernan;392545 wrote:You nailed it again Mooney...when I first read what will now go down in OC lore as "the Wallet Story" I was thinking what kind of pussy writes this as supportive evidence for his argument as to why his team should be taken seriously? But consider the source too...Athlete37 comes in a close third to Kock Rutne and Lotz in wishing their final moment will be in the Grotto taking it anally from the ghost of Johnny Lujack (now thats tradition!!!).

I really do hope you guys start winning again, its good for college football in general but it would even be better to win a conference title, something you guys have never done.

To answer your question of who writes something like that: someone who will make more money in his first year salary with degrees from ND and OSU than you have ever made in a year and a half of your life, maybe 2...

athlete37;393152 wrote:To answer your question of who writes something like that: someone who will make more money in his first year salary with degrees from ND and OSU than you have ever made in a year and a half of your life, maybe 2...

Are you suppose to be arguing AGAINST the fact that Notre Dame fans/grads are arrogant? You seem to be proving my point.

athlete37;393145 wrote:You have no concept of what Notre Dame is and represents if you think everything is about football at that school.

I can give a shit if NOTHING is about football at that school, as long as they WIN. The school would be Xavier University if it weren't for the football team (a small Catholic school with great academics but happens to be relatively obscure), so the school owes the football program big time. Meanwhile the fans/alumni aren't helping with their "we NEED independence, ITS TRADITION" attitude. I just want to win. If that means remaining independence then so be it. If it means joining the Big 10/11/12/13/14 whatever then I don't think it should be out of the question based on "tradition". If the players will play better if they have their own dorm and dining hall LET IT HAPPEN. Quit pretending they are there to get a degree, its insulting to the rest of the college football world. Frank Leahy is dead. So is Knute Rockne. This isn't the glory days, its the 21st century. Lets catch up.

sjmvsfscs08;393041 wrote:I almost forgot....Penn State won 77 games from 2000-2009, Notre Dame won 70. Penn State went to one BCS bowl, Notre Dame went to two. They were a collective 0-3 in BCS bowls. Is Penn State's program really top notch, or are you a biased fuck towards the Big Ten?

Compared to ND, a lot of programs are top notch. Navy comes to mind.

Mooney44Cards;393174 wrote:Are you suppose to be arguing AGAINST the fact that Notre Dame fans/grads are arrogant? You seem to be proving my point.

I can give a shit if NOTHING is about football at that school, as long as they WIN. The school would be Xavier University if it weren't for the football team (a small Catholic school with great academics but happens to be relatively obscure), so the school owes the football program big time. Meanwhile the fans/alumni aren't helping with their "we NEED independence, ITS TRADITION" attitude. I just want to win. If that means remaining independence then so be it. If it means joining the Big 10/11/12/13/14 whatever then I don't think it should be out of the question based on "tradition". If the players will play better if they have their own dorm and dining hall LET IT HAPPEN. Quit pretending they are there to get a degree, its insulting to the rest of the college football world. Frank Leahy is dead. So is Knute Rockne. This isn't the glory days, its the 21st century. Lets catch up.

Congrats on being the cool, edgy ND fan on the OC..it's a big accomplishment. The only problem is that you really aren't saying anything new, or proposing how things could and should change. You just want to WIN? No shit?! Revelation! We all want to fucking win. I could care less about a lot of the ongoings on ND's campus as well, as long as they win on Saturdays, I'm cool with it. I'm just not sure where joining or not joining a conference, or Rockne has to do with it? So ND has a lot of tradition behind it, big deal - that's not what is preventing them from winning football games. Terrible coaching decisions and an even worse adminstration is what has prevented ND from being competitive year in and year out. It has NOTHING to do with arrogance, greed, tradition, or a conference. That's just an easy scapegoat for ND haters or edgy ND fans who think they have it all figured out. Let's catch up? How do you propose they do so? They've finally fired a coach with a monster contract and hired a coach who has experience winning college football games, so I'm thinking they are currently doing anything and everything possible to "catch up". I could see this post coming after week 6 of the 2010 season and ND's record being 1-5, but for now, you're just spouting off a bunch of shit that we already know. Trust me, even us ND "homers" want to win.

I've not bothered to read this entire thread, it's probably a mistake, and I'll read up on it later but just say this for now, if already covered forgive.

I certainly can't claim to be an ND fan, though I respect a lot of the tradition, Knute, the Gipper, Rudy and all that shit. You only need to be a fan of the college game to have a spot for it in your heart. Check. Mooney44 is no different than any fervent fan expressing the desire to see his team do well, though I think there are a couple things that need mentioned (see haven't read entire thread) to help clarify the issue.

ND holds dearly to several "traditional" things that frankly they need to update. Stoops wanted to have control over the players dietary intake, but was denied (correct me if I'm wrong). How the hell is that not a negotiable issue? How the hell is a players dorm not a negotiable issue for that matter? I'm all for customary "tradition", but sorry, those two just don't fly. Yeah, catch up here at least. You don't need an ND PhD to recognize the benefit of either. There are other things also but these two have always stuck out in my mind.

Now we come to the killer tradition, academic standards. Let's face it, it wasn't an issue when the ND "mojo" was in full swing, you can bet your golden domer ass it is now. I don't mean to be facetious but it is a fact. With so many "other" football schools willing to allow lesser student athletes attend and play with much less rigors than they'd encounter at ND why put yourself through the agony? Be honest with yourself when considering today's yutes before you answer.

The academic standards thing I get, I understand why ND might hold onto this with the ole Kung Fu grip. But ND fans have to be willing to accept quite a few less blue chippers and a lot more mediocrity if this one holds fast. Joining the Big 10 won't change those things, but it might allow for a few players more willing to take the risk, knowing they're guaranteed a big stage more than a couple times a season. ND fans have tuned in NBC for a lot of years, the rest of the college football fan base, not so much.

Hamp89;393219 wrote:Congrats on being the cool, edgy ND fan on the OC..it's a big accomplishment. The only problem is that you really aren't saying anything new, or proposing how things could and should change. You just want to WIN? No shit?! Revelation! We all want to fucking win. I could care less about a lot of the ongoings on ND's campus as well, as long as they win on Saturdays, I'm cool with it. I'm just not sure where joining or not joining a conference, or Rockne has to do with it? So ND has a lot of tradition behind it, big deal - that's not what is preventing them from winning football games. Terrible coaching decisions and an even worse adminstration is what has prevented ND from being competitive year in and year out. It has NOTHING to do with arrogance, greed, tradition, or a conference. That's just an easy scapegoat for ND haters or edgy ND fans who think they have it all figured out. Let's catch up? How do you propose they do so? They've finally fired a coach with a monster contract and hired a coach who has experience winning college football games, so I'm thinking they are currently doing anything and everything possible to "catch up". I could see this post coming after week 6 of the 2010 season and ND's record being 1-5, but for now, you're just spouting off a bunch of shit that we already know. Trust me, even us ND "homers" want to win.

Well, perhaps you failed reading comprehension. Read the title of the thread and then come back with a response. WHERE did I say that this is a thread about how Notre Dame is going to win again? Nowhere.

So, congrats on being the cool, edgy guy who wants to pretend that I'm not making a good point while commenting on some tangent that the thread has skewed in and ignoring the original post.

The point of this thread was to call out Notre Dame fans for being arrogant motherfuckers who pretend like their tradition precludes them from anything that applies to the other 115 or whatever other D1A college football programs.

I just want cocky Notre Dame fans to be honest and quit making all of us look bad with their bullshit reasons and bullshit attitudes. It just makes losing worse.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE NOTRE DAME GOOD AGAIN, BUT I AM UNWILLING TO ACCEPT THAT THINGS HAVE TO STAY THE SAME OR NOTRE DAME WILL NO LONGER BE NOTRE DAME! MAYBE THEY CAN WIN WITH THINGS AS THEY ARE AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN, MAYBE NOT, BUT HOW WILL WE FIND OUT IF FANS AND ALUMNI ARE TOO ARROGANT TO CHANGE?! I don't know how to make my point any clearer without smartass after smartass trying to pretend I'm making some other point. I am not advocating change as a solution. I am advocating that we quit acting like its out of the question because it would change Notre Dame somehow into.....what was it.....a regional school? LOL Yes the highly regarded international academic institution that is seared into the annals of College Football lore is somehow going to become Northwestern because they join one of the most popular, most successful, and oldest collegiate athletic conference in the country. Right.

Again, who cares what the fans think? Who cares if the alumni is arrogant? Being any more or less arrogant is not going to help them win football games. Funny how you aren't arrogant and only care about winning football games and then say "the highly regarded international academic institution". LOL, because that really matters in the scheme of college football and winning games. The only tradition I would like see broken is the standards set for admitting student athletes - make this equal to the other top college football programs and ND starts getting more talent, and winning more games.

I'm all for change, if it makese sense. I just can't find any compelling reason as to how joining the Big 10 will help ND win any more games. Nothing more, nothing less. No one can answer that question, and all you want to do is spout off about arrogance and traditon, etc to make yourself look like you've made some great revelation on ND football. As I said, change is awesome, if it makes sense.

Hamp89;393293 wrote:.

I'm all for change, if it makese sense. I just can't find any compelling reason as to how joining the Big 10 will help ND win any more games. Nothing more, nothing less..

OK...can you come up with any compelling reasons to stay independent other than tradition? Because the compelling reason to join a conference other than a championship game and a possible difficulty in quality OOC scheduling to me might be the loss of a lucrative NBC contract. Keep up the poor field performance and it could happen...just sayin'.

ytownfootball;393320 wrote:OK...can you come up with any compelling reasons to stay independent other than tradition? Because the compelling reason to join a conference other than a championship game and a possible difficulty in quality OOC scheduling to me might be the loss of a lucrative NBC contract. Keep up the poor field performance and it could happen...just sayin'.

I gave my opinions on staying independent earlier in the thread so there's no need to re-type them. Don't kid yourself on the NBC contract though - NBC could give a shit about poor field performance - all they want is ratings, and they continue to get them at a high level regardless of how ND plays. Fans are all across the country and there are a lot of people who hate ND because of arrogance etc, and they tune is to see them get beat. Hell, it almost seems ND is even MORE relevant when they're losing.

No way, ND is way more relevant when winning, you know it. Point is, long term, continued lackluster performance will lead to irrelevance (even more so) than currently. I personally don't even think it's debatable.

Not only that, I wouldn't be surprised to see the BCS change their stance on ND and other at large contenders, I just don't think ND can bank on their history forever.

ytownfootball;393339 wrote:No way, ND is way more relevant when winning, you know it. Point is, long term, continued lackluster performance will lead to irrelevance (even more so) than currently. I personally don't even think it's debatable.

Not only that, I wouldn't be surprised to see the BCS change their stance on ND and other at large contenders, I just don't think ND can bank on their history forever.

Yeah I meant that tongue-in cheek. But I agree,If the "super conferences" ever really do occur, ND will have to join, or will be left out in the cold.

Hamp89;393354 wrote:Yeah I meant that tongue-in cheek. But I agree,If the "super conferences" ever really do occur, ND will have to join, or will be left out in the cold.

This is the compelling reason to join now. Yeah, every conference wants ND, but being complacent is not in ND's favor as it was years ago. I hope to see them in the Big 10.

ytownfootball;393373 wrote:This is the compelling reason to join now. Yeah, every conference wants ND, but being complacent is not in ND's favor as it was years ago. I hope to see them in the Big 10.

ND can afford to be complacent because in the end (whether they stink or are great) everyone will want them. I'll say it again, ND doesn't need the Big 10 or any other conference, they need ND for the money and it's quite obvious ND isn't in it totally for money. As mentioned above, the only way ND joins a conference is if their hand is forced and that is unlikely to happen after recent events.