I'm a Notre Dame fan. Like it or not. More than likely, the first few posts on here will be from the several ND haters on this site. Please insert your ND hate quickly, as to get it over with. This is not the place for blind ND hatred. Its a place for me as a lifelong Notre Dame fan to say I'm sick of the arrogance.

I'm not talking about the "we're better than you cuz we've won 11 National Championships" arrogance. Thats called "winner's arrogance" every major college football team has this type. If you're a non-OSU fan and you live in Ohio you know that Buckeye fans are some of the worst. Its a simple fact of life. We cannot stop this unstoppable force.

The arrogance I'm speaking of is the "we're not joining the Big10 because we don't need it" arrogance.

Let me say first off.....I could give a shit whether Notre Dame joins the Big 10 or not. Shocking....right? An ND fan that feels indifferent towards the B10 situation? Shocking. Here's the thing......if ND joins the Big 10 then *GASP* we play Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State (oh wait we play them anyways). Plus we play potential cash cow/s Ohio State (played them 3 times in the past 15 years), Nebraska (twice in the past 10 years), Northwestern (played em), and the rest of the crew. Great......a filled out schedule....plus probably a cream puff and USC. Great.

If we DON'T join the B10......we go on as is.

So.....why don't they? I can't really seam to find a reason other than "wanting to maintain our independence". WTF?! This isn't Revolutionary War America.....this is the 21st century.....independence is so 18th century.

Please.....ND fans.......lets not kid ourselves. If someone asks you why you don't want to join the B10, please say something to the effect of "we think we're better than you and we don't want to be officially associated with you." Or else say "you dicked us over like 80 years ago or something and we're still holding a grudge". Those are the 2 real most likely reasons. Or else be a man and say "I'm a big pussy and I'm scared of Notre Dame playing Ohio State every year cuz my friends are Ohio State fans and they'll make fun of me worse than they already do."

Maintaining independence is not a fucking tradition. Neither is "no names on the jerseys" or "no designs on the field". This is all fucking bullshit. WINNING is a tradition, and given the right coach, the right players, and the right situation.....Notre Dame can win again. Lets continue....or rather RE-INITIATE that tradition and forget this bullshit living in the past "tradition" pussy whining.

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IRISH!!!!!

Mooney44Cards;391162 wrote:... Neither is "no names on the jerseys" or "no designs on the field". ...

These are about the only things that are appealing to me as a bystander. It's interesting you mention them.

If they almost play a Big10/11 schedule why does it matter to you as a fan if they join?

rock,whaddya' say,brother??

Finally an ND fan who has had the scales lifted from his eyes! Good post Mooney...your gonna get kicked in the nutz by all the other blind potato eaters on here...but I give you big credit for telling it like it is.

LOL.I asked this same question probably a month or so ago.the answer that I got is "nobody is saying that dipshit" even though basically every Notre dame fan says they don't need the big 10

It's not really about arrogance. ND feels it needs to maintain it's independence to remain "competitive" (I know, that sounds funny) in the world of college football. If you make ND a regional school, which would be the case when/if joining the Big 10, then you lose the national appeal and eventually lose a huge portion of your fan base (subway alumni). Notre Dame has an extremely small enrollment, and plays in a town that is not nearly big enough to support them as a regional team. Notre Dame NEEDS the national presence and appeal to make the money they deem necessary to be successful. On top of this, recruiting would take a major hit as well if Notre Dame is not playing a national schedule every year. If they start playing a regional schedule, they will start primarily getting only regional recruits - which is not good enough with the high standards they continue to carry (see Northwestern). There is very little appeal for a kid in California to come play at ND and a Big 10 schedule. As an ND fan I'm against joining a conference, and enjoy playing a nice variety schedule every year - it's great for the fans and subway alumni - these are the people that ND relies on to continue it's national appeal. If ND joins the Big 10, you might as well kiss all dreams of national titles, etc away. They will just become a carbon copy of Northwestern - good academic school and average football.

You can't compare ND to OSU in any way whatsoever. OSU is similar to a pro team in Columbus and Ohio, and the city/state is big enough to support that univeristy without a need for a national presence.

Lighten up Rudy.............

Sorry you feel that way Mooney but I disagree. It's not arrogance at all but it's in fact tradition. The only way ND would ever join a conference is if their hand was forced and that obviously didn't happen with all the conference realignment we've seen lately. They obviously don't need the extra money and playing a national schedule.....who ever, when ever is a big advantage. There's a few ND fans on here that want to see ND in the Big 10 but I'm not one of them.

BTW, your comment about being afraid to play OSU annually is way off base.

who ever, when ever is a big advantage.

It sure is.

I'm not a Notre Dame fan, but I respect their tradition a lot. I don't think they *need* the Big 10. They need to start winning and then everything else won't matter. (Maybe more conference realignment, but so far I think they're ok.)

I don't hate ND, i'm really indifferent to them. but I understand their importance. I'd love to see them play OSU every year, not because I think they'd get killed by OSU every year, but because I think that would be a great rivalry. I don't care if they join the big ten or not. I understand that they won't until they have to for whatever reason. the fact remains that they make pretty good money where they're at, they have an automatic BCS bid, and they're not locked into a conference schedule, i don't blame them for not wanting to be in any conference at this point.

Maybe some of you didn't read my post.....I'm not saying they SHOULD join the B10, just that ND fans seem to give bullshit reasons not to join.

See: Hamp89's post. The WHOLE THING is bullshit. So Notre Dame is going to lose its national fanbase all of a sudden because 1-2 games a year are on the B10 Network?! WTF?! Its independent status has nothing to do with its popularity, being a traditional winner DOES.

Again........independence is not a tradition. Its something ND was forced into long ago.

And the money?! They would probably make more money in an expanded B10 network.

Let me say it one more time.....I'm not arguing for joining the Big10....just hoping that all the bullshit excuses end.

BTW.....i was hammered when I wrote that last night.....pretty good though huh?

ahhhh potatoes! nom nom nom



Okay anywho....yeah I want them to join the Big Ten. I do not think it would make them a regional school. They'd probably have one non-rivalry OOC game, and could play it in a mega-match up anywhere. I do think they're weary of playing big names in a OOC game if they joined the Big Ten; but that's understandable as the schedule of Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, plus Southern Cal would be brutal to begin with.

I want to see Notre Dame win, end of story. If it takes them joining the Big Ten, fine. If all it takes is independence and Brian Kelly, fine. But at the end of the day I think joining the Big Ten is inevitable. Add Missouri and Notre Dame and go to fourteen for forever.

rock_knutne;391247 wrote:Sorry you feel that way Mooney but I disagree. It's not arrogance at all but it's in fact tradition. The only way ND would ever join a conference is if their hand was forced and that obviously didn't happen with all the conference realignment we've seen lately. They obviously don't need the extra money and playing a national schedule.....who ever, when ever is a big advantage. There's a few ND fans on here that want to see ND in the Big 10 but I'm not one of them.

BTW, your comment about being afraid to play OSU annually is way off base.

I'm curious how you perceive playing a national "whoever, whenever" schedule as being an advantage the past 15 years. An advantage monetarily? Maybe. An advantage with national exposure? Probably, but with cable and the internet all of the top team are on national television almost every week. An advantage with recruiting? It certainly doesn't seem like it. An advantage in winning national championships? It's been 22 years since you last won one of those, so it has been an advantage there. I'll agree that playing a national schedule used to be a big advantage for ND. Recently though I see few advantages to it.

Damn a post by a Notre Dame fan that I have to give props to.
Nice post and for me to say this to you was hard but well deserved.

Mooney44Cards;391162 wrote:I'm a Notre Dame fan. Like it or not. More than likely, the first few posts on here will be from the several ND haters on this site. Please insert your ND hate quickly, as to get it over with. This is not the place for blind ND hatred. Its a place for me as a lifelong Notre Dame fan to say I'm sick of the arrogance.

I'm not talking about the "we're better than you cuz we've won 11 National Championships" arrogance. Thats called "winner's arrogance" every major college football team has this type. If you're a non-OSU fan and you live in Ohio you know that Buckeye fans are some of the worst. Its a simple fact of life. We cannot stop this unstoppable force.

The arrogance I'm speaking of is the "we're not joining the Big10 because we don't need it" arrogance.

Let me say first off.....I could give a shit whether Notre Dame joins the Big 10 or not. Shocking....right? An ND fan that feels indifferent towards the B10 situation? Shocking. Here's the thing......if ND joins the Big 10 then *GASP* we play Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State (oh wait we play them anyways). Plus we play potential cash cow/s Ohio State (played them 3 times in the past 15 years), Nebraska (twice in the past 10 years), Northwestern (played em), and the rest of the crew. Great......a filled out schedule....plus probably a cream puff and USC. Great.

If we DON'T join the B10......we go on as is.

So.....why don't they? I can't really seam to find a reason other than "wanting to maintain our independence". WTF?! This isn't Revolutionary War America.....this is the 21st century.....independence is so 18th century.

Please.....ND fans.......lets not kid ourselves. If someone asks you why you don't want to join the B10, please say something to the effect of "we think we're better than you and we don't want to be officially associated with you." Or else say "you dicked us over like 80 years ago or something and we're still holding a grudge". Those are the 2 real most likely reasons. Or else be a man and say "I'm a big pussy and I'm scared of Notre Dame playing Ohio State every year cuz my friends are Ohio State fans and they'll make fun of me worse than they already do."

Maintaining independence is not a fucking tradition. Neither is "no names on the jerseys" or "no designs on the field". This is all fucking bullshit. WINNING is a tradition, and given the right coach, the right players, and the right situation.....Notre Dame can win again. Lets continue....or rather RE-INITIATE that tradition and forget this bullshit living in the past "tradition" pussy whining.

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IRISH!!!!!

No, they won't lose their national fan base "all of the sudden", but I guarantee you over time, people outside of the Midwest will lose interest in ND. Regional schools = regional fan bases. ND needs the national exposure ALL THE TIME to compete with the big dogs in recruiting and money. And, you're fuckin crazy if you don't think the independent status plays a huge role in ND's popularity. Are you serious? ND formed it's popularity on playing schools all across the country. Without the subway alumi, ND doesn't survive. Playing all of your games in the midwest takes a ton of of interest away from the subway alumni, and eventually over time you will lose them completely. ND/South Bend is not big enought to simply survive on it's own with a regional schedule/tv network. It's not rocket science. You might think the tradition is a joke, but it's in fact the tradition that made ND what it is today, and probably a big reason why YOU follow them.

Answer this: If ND is in the Big 10, does Jimmy Clausen, Golden Tate, Dayne Crist, etc. come to South Bend? No way in hell..

To me, there just isn't a compelling enough reason TO join a conference yet. #2 on the Forbes richest college football program, playing a schedule YOU want to play. Why would they join again?

Mooney44Cards;391307 wrote:BTW.....i was hammered when I wrote that last night.....pretty good though huh?

hahaha I knew it, I was going to suggest that you shouldn't make posts like this after you have been drinking during a 12-0 beat down which included a 2.5 hour rain delay

Hamp, you do realize that all Big Ten games that appear on ABC/ESPN are national broadcasts, right? So that means that for a school like Ohio State they play 2-3 games a year on the Big Ten Network and the rest are nationally televised. Do you really think that a 17 or 18 year old kid is going to pass on Notre Dame because they were only on TV in Texas 10 times instead of 12? Nope. And in recent years, the majority (and by that I mean more than half) of ND's games have been against teams from the Midwest and Northeast. That's pretty regional.

krambman;391349 wrote:Hamp, you do realize that all Big Ten games that appear on ABC/ESPN are national broadcasts, right? So that means that for a school like Ohio State they play 2-3 games a year on the Big Ten Network and the rest are nationally televised. Do you really think that a 17 or 18 year old kid is going to pass on Notre Dame because they were only on TV in Texas 10 times instead of 12? Nope. And in recent years, the majority (and by that I mean more than half) of ND's games have been against teams from the Midwest and North East. That's pretty regional.

Yeah I get that, as television exposure isn't as big of a deal as it once was - everyone has that opportunity now. I wouldn't lump the NE and MW together though, completely different animals there. The NE is a market that ND needs to stay a part of for sure - a huge majority of fans live in the NE. Joining the Big 10 would take a lot of that away as well.

I think it's more difficult for OSU fans to understand the philosophy, as the vast majority of your fan base lives right here, in state. There will never be a problem with having a lack of support or losing fans. Notre Dame fans are virtually equally sprinkled everywhere across the country - there is really no "Ohio" where the majority of ND fans live. In order to keep recruits interested and your national fanbase interested, you have to play a schedule with teams from all corners of the country, which ND has done a good job of doing over the years. It is what made ND what it is today. Call it bullshit, but I think ND would struggle mightily when/if they join a conference.

Hamp, I'm just curious how you think they would struggle or what losing some of the fan base would hurt? Are you talking in terms of recruiting? Most of their recruits are going to come out of the Midwest. The simple fact is that most kids stay close to home, but if they do go far away, it's to a school they feel comfortable at and one they feel gives them the best chance to win and get to the NFL. Recently, ND hasn't been one of those schools which is why, while getting some good recruiting classes, they haven't had #1 recruiting classes. I honestly don't think a kid from Florida, Texas, or California (the top HS football states) really cares too much if ND is going to play 2 games in their home state during their four years of college. Again, with all of the top teams being on national television every week, and the Internet, ESPN, and College GameDay, playing a national schedule doesn't expose Notre Dame to more recruits than any other top school.

As far as the fan base goes, you have to realize that a lot of their fan base is Catholic. Whether or not they play in Las Angels, Boston, or Miami every other year doesn't much matter to those fans. As long as Notre Dame remains Catholic they will have those fans. Again, the equality in national exposure has opened up fan bases across the country, and still, most people root for the school closest to them or the one they or a relative went to. I don't think there are many kids growing up today who randomly pick Notre Dame as their favorite team. If the fear is lack of revenue due to the loss of fan base then I can kind of understand. A smaller fan base means less merchandise sales which mean less revenue. However, I still don't think that playing a few games outside of their region every year does much to build their fan base much. If national football broadcasts didn't exist, then yes, it would be a big advantage because they would be exposed to people all around the country once or twice a year, whereas most teams would only ever be exposed in their region. The fact is though that isn't the case, so I don't see how it's a huge advantage. Maybe it is, I just need someone to explain to me how it is a huge advantage.

Hamp89;391338 wrote:No, they won't lose their national fan base "all of the sudden", but I guarantee you over time, people outside of the Midwest will lose interest in ND. Regional schools = regional fan bases. ND needs the national exposure ALL THE TIME to compete with the big dogs in recruiting and money. And, you're fuckin crazy if you don't think the independent status plays a huge role in ND's popularity. Are you serious? ND formed it's popularity on playing schools all across the country. Without the subway alumi, ND doesn't survive. Playing all of your games in the midwest takes a ton of of interest away from the subway alumni, and eventually over time you will lose them completely. ND/South Bend is not big enought to simply survive on it's own with a regional schedule/tv network. It's not rocket science. You might think the tradition is a joke, but it's in fact the tradition that made ND what it is today, and probably a big reason why YOU follow them.

Answer this: If ND is in the Big 10, does Jimmy Clausen, Golden Tate, Dayne Crist, etc. come to South Bend? No way in hell..

To me, there just isn't a compelling enough reason TO join a conference yet. #2 on the Forbes richest college football program, playing a schedule YOU want to play. Why would they join again?

Maybe you could get some good players to come instaed of the likes of Clausen, Tate and the next Who is That?

Hamp89;391338 wrote:No, they won't lose their national fan base "all of the sudden", but I guarantee you over time, people outside of the Midwest will lose interest in ND. Regional schools = regional fan bases. ND needs the national exposure ALL THE TIME to compete with the big dogs in recruiting and money. And, you're fuckin crazy if you don't think the independent status plays a huge role in ND's popularity. Are you serious? ND formed it's popularity on playing schools all across the country. Without the subway alumi, ND doesn't survive. Playing all of your games in the midwest takes a ton of of interest away from the subway alumni, and eventually over time you will lose them completely. ND/South Bend is not big enought to simply survive on it's own with a regional schedule/tv network. It's not rocket science. You might think the tradition is a joke, but it's in fact the tradition that made ND what it is today, and probably a big reason why YOU follow them.

Answer this: If ND is in the Big 10, does Jimmy Clausen, Golden Tate, Dayne Crist, etc. come to South Bend? No way in hell..

To me, there just isn't a compelling enough reason TO join a conference yet. #2 on the Forbes richest college football program, playing a schedule YOU want to play. Why would they join again?

Well umm.....there are 2 reasons why I'm a Notre Dame fan.......1)My dad grew up a Notre Dame fan. Not because they were a "national team" but because they were one of the most successful teams while my dad was growing up. Also we come from an Irish-Catholic family. 2)My sister went to school at St. Mary's and I got to see a lot of games while she was there.

So if ND had been in the Big10 all these years, especially while my dad was growing up and still been successful, I would still be an ND fan. Now maybe ND's independence back then helped them be successful and win all those national championships, but its a completely different world now. EVERY major team is a national team. You can't tell me that Ohio State is a "regional" school. There are thousands of Buckeye grads getting their degrees every year and moving to every corner of the country. You will find a Buckeye Bar in almost any city in the US if you look hard enough, and the same can be said for Notre Dame.

I think Notre Dame can still win as an independent, but lets not pretend its necessary for ND to be successful. If they want to win a national championship, they're gonna have to beat or be able to beat the likes of Ohio State, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, etc. Playing Washington State at the Alamo Dome doesn't help our cause, its fucking embarrassing is what it is.

krambman;391326 wrote:I'm curious how you perceive playing a national "whoever, whenever" schedule as being an advantage the past 15 years. An advantage monetarily? Maybe. An advantage with national exposure? Probably, but with cable and the internet all of the top team are on national television almost every week. An advantage with recruiting? It certainly doesn't seem like it. An advantage in winning national championships? It's been 22 years since you last won one of those, so it has been an advantage there. I'll agree that playing a national schedule used to be a big advantage for ND. Recently though I see few advantages to it.

Huge advantages! ND only plays three true road games this year. It also helps in recruiting......you can sell these kids on playing nationally instead of taking a three hour bus ride to a Big 10 location.

As for your remark concerning ND's struggles, you can blame the stupid decisions made by people like ND's former AD Kevin White. If anything, ND's national prescence has kept them in the spotlight during these pressing times.

BTW, your wrong as far as the Big 10 games being broadcast nationally on ESPN. Yes, some of the time slots (all the ABC games) are nationally televised but quite a few of those games are regional only.

I'd rather they just stay independent and irrelevant.