Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Jun 2, 2010 11:28pm
kayo;377484 wrote:See, it's exaggerations like this that drive me nuts. Take a look at the pictures on page one and tell me he was out by 'a full step'. A full step means he was just starting his last stride before reaching the bag, and the second picture shows Donald's foot to be about 12-18 inches from the bag.
Its not an exaggeration in baseball terms. They say half step when the guy is about to touch the bag (ie, both feet are off the ground) and the first baseman just catches it. A fell step is when the guys foot is still on the ground, and it was (that picture is a little after Armando actually caught the ball). Out by a mile, I will stand by that statement. I can recall plays in THIS GAME ALONE that were much closer and the calls were made without hesitation. It isnt that hard. Joyce had time to watch the ball into the glove and then look down to see Donalds foot hit the bag.
GOONx19
Posts: 7,147
Jun 2, 2010 11:28pm
Haha, that's awesome.ts1227;377462 wrote:Here is how Don Denkinger's Wikipedia page now starts out:
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Manhattan Buckeye
Posts: 7,566
Jun 2, 2010 11:29pm
"and just beating the runner to the spot doesnt mean anything."
I agree if Joyce's defense is he didn't think Galarraga had possession. To his credit he admits it was a blown call so I'm not going to beat the guy up.
But to say this wasn't an obvious blown call baffles me, HS track sports have much closer calls. Even on replay, at real time, Galarraga is in front of the runner, as the announcers said just after the play, how was it possible that the runner beat Galarraga?
I agree if Joyce's defense is he didn't think Galarraga had possession. To his credit he admits it was a blown call so I'm not going to beat the guy up.
But to say this wasn't an obvious blown call baffles me, HS track sports have much closer calls. Even on replay, at real time, Galarraga is in front of the runner, as the announcers said just after the play, how was it possible that the runner beat Galarraga?
Strapping Young Lad
Posts: 2,453
Jun 2, 2010 11:35pm
The real issue here is MLB could have this kind of shit be avoided should they just implement INSTANT REPLAY.
On second thought I just couldn't stand to not have the human element fucking up perfect games.....
On second thought I just couldn't stand to not have the human element fucking up perfect games.....
killer_ewok
Posts: 11,379
Jun 2, 2010 11:36pm
Wow. That's gotta make Galarraga sick to his stomach.
Laley23
Posts: 29,506
Jun 2, 2010 11:37pm
Strapping Young Lad;377514 wrote:The real issue here is MLB could have this kind of shit be avoided should they just implement INSTANT REPLAY.
On second thought I just couldn't stand to not have the human element fucking up perfect games.....
To play devils advocate: Would it really be worth it (if it was an actual close call) if this is in the 3rd inning to go into the tunnel and watch the replay?
IggyPride00
Posts: 6,482
Jun 2, 2010 11:41pm
They have been playing organized baseball since 1869 (141 years now). There have been I think 20 perfect games in that time.All I can say is wow - you guys are too wrapped up in this perfect game.
Getting to the bottom of the 9th with 2 outs with one intact is statistically an amazingly rare event when you look at how often it occurs, so it is a big deal that history was denied by a bad call. It deserves the massive amount of attention it is getting because it is not just a run of the mill occurrence, and for all we know it could be another decade before the next one as that has happened plenty of times in history.
Strapping Young Lad
Posts: 2,453
Jun 2, 2010 11:45pm
Laley23;377517 wrote:To play devils advocate: Would it really be worth it (if it was an actual close call) if this is in the 3rd inning to go into the tunnel and watch the replay?
Can't they just have a war room similar to what the NHL has in Toronto where officials are monitoring every play of every game so when the umpire can just check it quickly if there is a major dispute.
I mean, I'm sure they could figure out a way to have this done without holding up the game. Or maybe this is better???
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jun 2, 2010 11:46pm
I would fuckin' attacked him if I was the pitcher. That was absolutely terrible. I really don't think I have seen a call that was missed THAT bad.
It will never happen, but I would LOVE to see Bud come out and take a stand and change the call. Take away any pitches he threw to the next batter, take away the hit, and make it 3 to 1 put out.
It will never happen, but I would LOVE to see Bud come out and take a stand and change the call. Take away any pitches he threw to the next batter, take away the hit, and make it 3 to 1 put out.
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Jun 2, 2010 11:49pm
i believe that is what the MLB does. but i think it should be more like the NFL where the umpires get to watch it themselves. not some guy in New York i think.Strapping Young Lad;377529 wrote:Can't they just have a war room similar to what the NHL has in Toronto where officials are monitoring every play of every game so when the umpire can just check it quickly if there is a major dispute.
I mean, I'm sure they could figure out a way to have this done without holding up the game. Or maybe this is better???
dwccrew
Posts: 7,817
Jun 2, 2010 11:49pm
Why would you be more upset if it were a playoff game? A perfect game is a perfect game no matter when it is played. The winning result of the game was uneffected, so if it was in the playoff's or just now, I'd be pissed that he was robbed of the perfect game.Manhattan Buckeye;377291 wrote:Agreed, what can you do? I'd be a bit more upset as a coach if it happened in a playoff series as opposed to an early June game. In a weird way Galarraga may become more famous as a result of this. Mike Witt pitched a perfect game and I wonder what percentage of baseball fans even know who he is. Galarraga is going to be like Harvey Haddix.
You're serious? You think it is still hard to tell if he was out on the replay? You don't think it can get much closer? Are you just playing devil's advocate?Glory Days;377450 wrote:come on, it was bang bang, i dont think it can get much closer. i have seen the replay a bunch of times now, and even though i know he was out, it is still hard to tell. had Galarraga got to the base earlier, it might have been more clear. but since he had to catch the ball then step on the base, it made it look even closer.
He was clearly out on the replay and I'm sorry, but on the field as a professional ump with 30 years experience, he is clearly out. Even Donald knew he was out on the field. How did he know but the ump didn't?
Even if it is close, you call the out. The Indians wouldn't have bitched.
No, it means he fucked up monumentally, which he has clearly admitted to.Glory Days;377500 wrote:when an umpire that is trained to make these calls thought the runner was safe, it probably was a close call.
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jun 2, 2010 11:51pm
Glory Days;377535 wrote:i believe that is what the MLB does. but i think it should be more like the NFL where the umpires get to watch it themselves. not some guy in New York i think.
The only thing the MLB does is have a little HD TV in the tunnel to one of the clubhouses, that will show a replay of an questionable HR call. But it is decided by the Umps and only the Umps. And the manager can't technically ASK for a replay to be used.
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jun 2, 2010 11:52pm
He beat the runner by a step and a half almost, that is not even close at all.
dwccrew
Posts: 7,817
Jun 2, 2010 11:53pm
wildcats20;377539 wrote:He beat the runner by a step and a half almost, that is not even close at all.
I agree. It looked like it was about a yard difference.
Strapping Young Lad
Posts: 2,453
Jun 2, 2010 11:57pm
However they decide to do it, this should be a wake up call. They always talk about how MLB will wish they had replay when the blown call effects the world series winner.
Well, this as close to something of that magnitude as you'll see at this point in the season.
Well, this as close to something of that magnitude as you'll see at this point in the season.
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Sonofanump
Jun 2, 2010 11:59pm
wildcats20;377532 wrote:I would fuckin' attacked him if I was the pitcher.
That's a quick way to loose your career.
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Manhattan Buckeye
Posts: 7,566
Jun 2, 2010 11:59pm
"Why would you be more upset if it were a playoff game? A perfect game is a perfect game no matter when it is played. The winning result of the game was uneffected, so if it was in the playoff's or just now, I'd be pissed that he was robbed of the perfect game."
I should have been more specific, I meant I would be very upset if it affected the results of a playoff game (a la Denkinger).
I should have been more specific, I meant I would be very upset if it affected the results of a playoff game (a la Denkinger).
wildcats20
Posts: 27,794
Jun 3, 2010 12:02am
Sonofanump;377553 wrote:That's a quick way to loose your career.
Yeah it was also a little bit of sarcasm.
dwccrew
Posts: 7,817
Jun 3, 2010 12:03am
Manhattan Buckeye;377554 wrote:"Why would you be more upset if it were a playoff game? A perfect game is a perfect game no matter when it is played. The winning result of the game was uneffected, so if it was in the playoff's or just now, I'd be pissed that he was robbed of the perfect game."
I should have been more specific, I meant I would be very upset if it affected the results of a playoff game (a la Denkinger).
Gotcha. Makes much more sense.
Here is a great clip from ESPN. Tim Kirkjian even says it wasn't that close of a call
http://espn.go.com/mlb/notebook/_/page/bbtn100603/baseball-tonight-clubhouse
dwccrew
Posts: 7,817
Jun 3, 2010 12:06am
Wikipedia has this under perfect game list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_game
On June 2, 2010, Armando Galarraga of the Tigers gave up an infield single to Jason Donald of the Cleveland Indians on a blown call by first base umpire Jim Joyce. After the game, Joyce acknowledged that he had missed the call: "I just cost that kid a perfect game. I thought he beat the throw. I was convinced he beat the throw, until I saw the replay."[64] The New York Times game report by Tyler Kepner called it "easily the most egregious blown call in baseball over the last 25 years."
dwccrew
Posts: 7,817
Jun 3, 2010 12:07am
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mhs95_06
Posts: 8,167
Jun 3, 2010 12:09am
wildcats20;377532 wrote: It will never happen, but I would LOVE to see Bud come out and take a stand and change the call. Take away any pitches he threw to the next batter, take away the hit, and make it 3 to 1 put out.
I think there is a reasonable chance for Selig to do something like that, or maybe make an executive decree to put in the record book in the list of perfect games with an asterisk and stating that the ump ruled safe, but immediately after the game admitted he was in error and he should have been given credit for a perfect game.
dwccrew
Posts: 7,817
Jun 3, 2010 12:13am
I hope Selig overturns this and gives Gallaraga the credit of perfect game that he deserves. He earned it.
Although I don't see that happening. It is about as likely to happen as the ump blowing that call.
Although I don't see that happening. It is about as likely to happen as the ump blowing that call.
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Jun 3, 2010 12:17am
mhs95_06;377569 wrote:I think there is a reasonable chance for Selig to do something like that, or maybe make an executive decree to put in the record book in the list of perfect games with an asterisk and stating that the ump ruled safe, but immediately after the game admitted he was in error and he should have been given credit for a perfect game.
haha you cant do that. where do you draw the line then? do we then go back through every game that was ever recorded on video also?
Jughead
Posts: 1,261
Jun 3, 2010 12:21am
Sure it was a class act to go to the locker room and tell the kid that he was sorry, but the next step for Mr. Joyce should be to step down...that call is inexcusable at any level of competition, regardless of the perfect game status.