IggyPride00;377328 wrote:Timmy K says that umpires get that call right 100,000 out of 100,001 times and that he clearly blew it tonight. As he said, Jim Joyce, and Jim Joyce alone deprived him of the perfect game he threw tonight because he did retire 27 out of 27 he just didn't get credit for it.

He threw the first 28-out perfect game in MLB history, that's for sure.

Maybe moreso in Ohio....but I'll bet the AVERAGE baseball fan doesn't know either...which was the point of the poster above......I was just saying I knew Witt.......he was a pretty good pitcher for a while......I rememeber Barker for his inclusion in the trade to teh Braves back when I first began watching baseball....hello Brett Butler!

justincredible;377331 wrote:He threw the first 28-out perfect game in MLB history, that's for sure.

Haddix threw one that was broken up after like 30 some batters....not a perfect game since he lost it in like the 12th or 13th...but still awesome.

18-10 2.84 ERA 269 innings 3rd in CY Young 5 straight 13+ win seasons

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wittmi01.shtml

19 wins with a 4.12 era in that era of 1980.....WOW

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/barkele01.shtml


Witt was better.

Yeah I would hate to be this ump

Ironman92;377354 wrote:18-10 2.84 ERA 269 innings 3rd in CY Young 5 straight 13+ win seasons

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wittmi01.shtml

Not bad stats, but not awesome. The 80's were a bit of a different era, as I'm sure you know. He finished his career a .500 pitcher. It was a bit easier to get double digit wins (and losses for that matter) in those days. I still think if you were to list all of the PG pitchers since 1968, he'd be the guy most people wouldn't have heard of.

For everyone saying he should be fired. should he be fired if it was a half a step the other way and he was called out when he should have been safe?

Glory Days;377383 wrote:For everyone saying he should be fired. should he be fired if it was a half a step the other way and he was called out when he should have been safe?

That is a fair point, I'm not arguing he should be fired, but on the other hand the circumstances are difficult to judge....if the runner was safe by that amount it would be unfathomable to me how anyone could possibly blow the call. The runner would be well past the bag after Galarraga was even close. At least in this situation the call was made on the far end of his vision, rather than the short end.

I've seen lots of comments about this being the worst call in the past (fill in the blank) years. All I can say is wow - you guys are too wrapped up in this perfect game. I feel bad for the kid, but the call WAS bang-bang and it wasn't obvious until we saw it in slow motion. And the thing is, it had absolutely no bearing on the game whatsoever.

I know there have been calls much more obvious than this that have been blown, but with MLB forbidding footage from being on Youtube I can't find anything. I'm pretty sure Denkinger's call was much worse because, as had been said, he only had to listen for the ball and watch the base.

As for Joyce being fired, give me a break. Are you also in favor of firing a guy that goes 0-for-6 at the dish in a playoff game?

The call wasn't bang-bang even in real time (to my earlier point, the only question is whether Galarraga simply missed the bag which you couldn't tell on tv), did you see the Cleveland runner's reaction after the play? Even he knew he was out. A bang-bang play is when you think you should have got the call, but maybe didn't. Yeah, you can be upset about it but a replay can prove you wrong. This didn't even need to go to replay.

Sure it wasn't the worst call in MLB history, but it was one of the most important blown calls.

come on, it was bang bang, i dont think it can get much closer. i have seen the replay a bunch of times now, and even though i know he was out, it is still hard to tell. had Galarraga got to the base earlier, it might have been more clear. but since he had to catch the ball then step on the base, it made it look even closer.

You can't be serious. The photos are on the first page. It could easily and often does get much closer. The feet could come down in near unison. It wasn't hard to tell at all. Again I don't think the ump should be fired but it was a horrifically blown call, if it wasn't we wouldn't be discussing it. Are you related to Joyce?

Manhattan Buckeye;377454 wrote:You can't be serious. The photos are on the first page. It could easily and often does get much closer. The feet could come down in near unison. It wasn't hard to tell at all. Again I don't think the ump should be fired but it was a horrifically blown call, if it wasn't we wouldn't be discussing it. Are you related to Joyce?

the photos? haha you just made my point. its easy to see in photos and replays. the only full speed replay it is kinda easy to tell is the angle from the first base coach's view.

Here is how Don Denkinger's Wikipedia page now starts out:

Donald Anton Denkinger (pronounced /ˈdɛŋkɨndʒər/, born August 28, 1936 in Cedar Falls, Iowa) is a former Major League Baseball umpire who worked in the American League from 1969 to 1998.[1] Denkinger wore uniform number 11, when the AL adopted uniform numbers in 1980. He is best remembered for an incorrect call he made at first base in Game 6 of the 1985 World Series, known as the second worst call in MLB history, behind Jim Joyce's safe call to ruin Armando Galarraga's perfect game on June 2, 2010.[2]

Manhattan Buckeye;377454 wrote:You can't be serious. The photos are on the first page.

Uh, you mean still photos, right? It wasn't bang-bang in the sense that the ball and the foot got there at the same time, but the added element of having to process whether or not he had his foot on the bag made it more difficult for the umpire. Pluswhich, I wonder if Joyce saw the ball in Galarraga's upturned glove. Even on the replay it almost appears that the ball is moving in his glove, thought I don't believe it was.

ts1227;377462 wrote:Here is how Don Denkinger's Wikipedia page now starts out:

hahahahahahahahaha

Glory Days;377460 wrote:the photos? haha you just made my point. its easy to see in photos and replays. the only full speed replay it is kinda easy to tell is the angle from the first base coach's view.

In real time on tv it was obvious Galarraga had possession of the ball and beat the runner to the bag...he actually was deliberate in his movement toward the bag. Could you tell if he touched it? I couldn't. But I could tell he beat the runner to the spot. How the umpire could miss this is unfortunate, are you even watching espn now?

Glory Days;377460 wrote:the photos? haha you just made my point. its easy to see in photos and replays. the only full speed replay it is kinda easy to tell is the angle from the first base coach's view.

ok, but there are literally 5 plays a game that are closer. This wasnt a close play. The runner was out by a full step. A bang bang play is when the runner is out by stuff you can barely tell by replay.

I mean, play that is a half step is routine for these guys. This was more than that. I can think of routine grounders that end up closer than this play. Dont let Galarraga running over confuse you. Donald was out by a mile.

Laley23;377471 wrote:The runner was out by a full step.

Donald was out by a mile.

See, it's exaggerations like this that drive me nuts. Take a look at the pictures on page one and tell me he was out by 'a full step'. A full step means he was just starting his last stride before reaching the bag, and the second picture shows Donald's foot to be about 12-18 inches from the bag.

^^ Correct. There are many closer plays that happen throughout a season. The plays where even replay can't tell are bang-bang plays. When replay shows the guy out by a step, that's not close.

When a guy who has been covering baseball for 30 years says it was perhaps the worst call ever, it probably is. And to someone who said it had no bearing on the game, HELLO!! That call cost someone a perfect game so obviously it had a huge bearing on the game. Found out about the whole thing while watching a movie at the theatre and was wondering how close it was. Get home to see that and it's not close and is embarassing to a guy from Toledo no less (Central grad so that explains a lot ) who has been around a long time to blow that.

Feel so bad for Armando who just had a once in lifetime game and it was wrongfully taken away. Can't punish the ump sadly but you will see a huge cry for instance replay after this but Bud will take about 8 years to decide on that.

Manhattan Buckeye;377469 wrote:In real time on tv it was obvious Galarraga had possession of the ball and beat the runner to the bag...he actually was deliberate in his movement toward the bag. Could you tell if he touched it? I couldn't. But I could tell he beat the runner to the spot. How the umpire could miss this is unfortunate, are you even watching espn now?

i have watched a bunch of replays at full speed. like i said, the only one that is sorta easy to tell is from the side view. anything from the umpire's view for from the homeplate or reverse of the umpire's view is pretty hard to tell. and just beating the runner to the spot doesnt mean anything. if he really beat the runner to the spot, he would have had time to put his foot on the base before he caught the ball.

Laley23;377471 wrote:ok, but there are literally 5 plays a game that are closer. This wasnt a close play. The runner was out by a full step. A bang bang play is when the runner is out by stuff you can barely tell by replay.

I mean, play that is a half step is routine for these guys. This was more than that. I can think of routine grounders that end up closer than this play. Dont let Galarraga running over confuse you. Donald was out by a mile.

this wasnt a routine half step play though. like i said earlier, he had to make sure he caught the ball(which he barely did even sorta juggled), then he had to make sure he stepped on the base. he cant watch all of those at the same time(like a runner tagging up).

KnightXC1;377495 wrote:^^ Correct. There are many closer plays that happen throughout a season. The plays where even replay can't tell are bang-bang plays. When replay shows the guy out by a step, that's not close.

When a guy who has been covering baseball for 30 years says it was perhaps the worst call ever, it probably is.

when an umpire that is trained to make these calls thought the runner was safe, it probably was a close call.

kayo;377484 wrote:See, it's exaggerations like this that drive me nuts. Take a look at the pictures on page one and tell me he was out by 'a full step'. A full step means he was just starting his last stride before reaching the bag, and the second picture shows Donald's foot to be about 12-18 inches from the bag.

The play wasn't even as close as it looks in the photo. You should watch it.

KnightXC1;377495 wrote:Can't punish the ump sadly but you will see a huge cry for instance replay after this but Bud will take about 8 years to decide on that.

Hopefully Leyland's comments will hold more sway than the 'huge cry' from the nattering nabobs of negativism: "I'm sure somebody is going to say, 'if we had replay on that play, that kid would have a perfect game.' Somebody will say something about that, but not me," Leyland said. "That's the human element. Umpires do a great job. There's no question about that. They're a whole lot right more than they are wrong. They make some unbelievable calls on bang-bang plays."