ohiotiger33 wrote: To me, it makes sense. You are brought to the island so that you can learn to love somebody/let go of your life's baggage. It is for the people that have horrible lives, so they can let go. When they then die, they go to the alt, and atone for their problems.

Ben didn't move on, because he felt he didnt move on.

i am not a religous man, but isnt that purgatory?

^^ But they aren't dead I don't think. That is the only real difference.

If anyone just watched Kimmel, I think he got it right.

He showed a clip from the first episode of this season when they are on the plane and feel turbulance and Jack is clutching to the arm rest. Rose tells him, "You can let go now" and he does.

That is when he dies down below on the island as he sees the plane fly over. Then, he moves to purgatory (the flash sideways) and the plane lands for his second chance at life and where he must "remember and let go" like Christian told him. He was the last one to remember so he is the last one in the church. Everyone is waiting for him and they all move on together.

Perfect IMO. I am totally at peace with this show and the ending.

patriots34 wrote: Alright it didn't ruin the series, but it was definitely a terrible last 10 minutes, especially when all the writers claimed that they weren't dead for the past 6 years, when in fact they were.

See below comments.

ohiotiger33 wrote: No they werent dead, I am discussing this with friends. The island is real, and it was all real. The alt universe is where you go when you die, no matter what the time. It was obviously in the future (hurley said, you were a good number 2 ben, and he said you were a great number 1). When you die, you get to go to LA X, and "move on" in your life.

Exactly how I interpreted it. I knew before he opened the coffin that they were dead. Did anyone notice the stain glass window in the background had symbols of all major religious faiths. IE the JEwish star of David, Islamic moon and star, Christian cross, etc.? That's when I knew they were going to Heaven, or whatever is next....

ptown_trojans_1 wrote: So, the wreckage at the end, was the plane that Lipedious, Sawyer, Kate, Richard, Claire and Miles took off?
Also, when did everyone die-the initial crash or the H-bomb?
What about the Dharma Initiative, was that a creation too?

Not necessarily. We don't know when the people on the plane died.

ohiotiger33 wrote: It didnt matter when they died. Jack's dad said that to jack. That is why Kate told him he missed him so much. I am sure she went on to live the rest of her life without him. But in Alt-universe purgatory/thing they all meet up and atone for their lives.

This is how I interpreted it as well.

jtownclassics wrote: I am glad some of you actually listened while watching the show. The island was real, everything was real. After they died, they went to purgatory, which was the flash sideways, until everyone could remember about their time on the island. Once that happened, they could all go cross over, or whatever.

That's the thing about LOST. Some people don't pay enough attention. You have to notice every little detail, it all means something. I mean think about JAck's dad's name. Christian Shephard. Kate even asks Desmond if he is serious and is that his name. Desmond was the Shephard leading the flock to the church.

Great way to end the serious, but man was it sad seeing it all come to a close.

dwccrew wrote: That's the thing about LOST. Some people don't pay enough attention. You have to notice every little detail, it all means something. I mean think about JAck's dad's name. Christian Shephard. Kate even asks Desmond if he is serious and is that his name. Desmond was the Shephard leading the flock to the church.

or you could be looking too much into it and most of that means nothing. you'll never know and that equals more discussion which means more viewers/ratings for the show.

Glory Days wrote:

dwccrew wrote: That's the thing about LOST. Some people don't pay enough attention. You have to notice every little detail, it all means something. I mean think about JAck's dad's name. Christian Shephard. Kate even asks Desmond if he is serious and is that his name. Desmond was the Shephard leading the flock to the church.

or you could be looking too much into it and most of that means nothing. you'll never know and that equals more discussion which means more viewers/ratings for the show.

You're right, I could be (however I don't think I am). That is the great thing about this show, it left it open for interpretation.

I thought the ending was pretty obvious and evident. IMO it was a perfect ending to the show. The writers always said it was about the characters, not the Island. After watching The End, you forget about alot of the unanswered questions and just feel good knowing the characters resolved all their issues happily (well, most of them). The Island stuff was real, the alt timeline was what they created in thier minds once they died. Christian explained it...they all spent the best years of thier lives on that Island and whatever together, so when they died (whenever in time that was - 2004 or 2050) they revert back to those times. The reason there are so many characters showing up in the alt timeline (Keamy, Omar, Alex, Rousseau, Art, etc.) is because those were the same cahracters that were on the Island. Once they ALL come to the conclusion that they have resolved their issues or whatever, then they can move on. So the entire ALT timeline we have been seeing this 6th season has been a fabrication, in thier minds; whereas everything else happened.

pinstriper wrote: I thought the ending was pretty obvious and evident. IMO it was a perfect ending to the show. The writers always said it was about the characters, not the Island. After watching The End, you forget about alot of the unanswered questions and just feel good knowing the characters resolved all their issues happily (well, most of them). The Island stuff was real, the alt timeline was what they created in thier minds once they died. Christian explained it...they all spent the best years of thier lives on that Island and whatever together, so when they died (whenever in time that was - 2004 or 2050) they revert back to those times. The reason there are so many characters showing up in the alt timeline (Keamy, Omar, Alex, Rousseau, Art, etc.) is because those were the same cahracters that were on the Island. Once they ALL come to the conclusion that they have resolved their issues or whatever, then they can move on. So the entire ALT timeline we have been seeing this 6th season has been a fabrication, in thier minds; whereas everything else happened.

This is how I interpreted it.

In the end, Lost is about letting go. Each of the characters had a bad past, but they blamed themselves for everything, when it wasn't always there fault. When they finally let go, they could move on to the after life.

ptown_trojans_1 wrote: Spoiler:

I thought the writers said it wasn't purgatory?
Not a fan of the last 5 minutes.
What about Ben outside? Did he not pass on?
Still the rest of it was awesome.

Ben passed...the church was the "gates to Heaven"...Unfortunately for Ben, his destination was elsewhere. He had a few too many bad moments to make it through the gates.

patriots34 wrote: Alright it didn't ruin the series, but it was definitely a terrible last 10 minutes, especially when all the writers claimed that they weren't dead for the past 6 years, when in fact they were.

The writers HAD to say that or the ending would have been spoiled 3 seasons before it happened. They were preserving their show.

ohiotiger33 wrote: No they werent dead, I am discussing this with friends. The island is real, and it was all real. The alt universe is where you go when you die, no matter what the time. It was obviously in the future (hurley said, you were a good number 2 ben, and he said you were a great number 1). When you die, you get to go to LA X, and "move on" in your life.

The island is only real in the sense that they crashed on it. The key moments of the show are the closing credits and right before them when they show the "eye opening" moment that started the series. At the beginning, the eye opens and you see the whole story. At the end, it opens then closes...Jack died at that moment. The entire 6 seasons happened in that blink of an eye. No one survived the crash...that is evident by showing the original plane crash scene with no one alive during the credits. The flashbacks were for the people to reconcile the life they lived. The flash forwards were nothing but a way to speed up the show and what happened for the time they were in "purgatory'. The parallel universe was indeed the actual purgatory (I didn't actually believe this until I started typing. It is amazing how things are making sense to me as I write, but didn't as I just thought about it).

They all died in the crash. As some have mentioned it took longer for a few to come to terms with it, therefor some were on the "island" longer (Ben/Hurley). The others were people who were in purgatory for a long time as well (which makes the island part of purgatory in my mind...now I'm wavering). Having the island be part of purgatory is a way to explain the others.

ptown_trojans_1 wrote: So, the wreckage at the end, was the plane that Lipedious, Sawyer, Kate, Richard, Claire and Miles took off?
Also, when did everyone die-the initial crash or the H-bomb?
What about the Dharma Initiative, was that a creation too?

The Dharma Initiative...in Hindu religion, people who live their lives in what is considered dharma (essentially a good and just life) will attain nirvana (essentially the afterlife) easier. The existence of the Dharma Initiative was just a hint at these people moving on to the afterlife.

jtownclassics wrote: I am glad some of you actually listened while watching the show. The island was real, everything was real. After they died, they went to purgatory, which was the flash sideways, until everyone could remember about their time on the island. Once that happened, they could all go cross over, or whatever.

Not everything was real. Jack died in that brief moment he was laying in the woods on the island after the first crash. He opened his eye, closed it, and died. The entire 6 seasons was the collective consciousness of the people on the plane and their spiritual journey to the afterlife. The island was simply the last thing their consciousness new and their minds told their closing story from that point.

With Jack dying there in the woods after the crash, there is no way the entire show was real. He would be dead in the woods and any story including him (the entire series) would not have happened. He clearly died in the woods and there were no survivors of Oceanic 815 as evidenced by the last scene of the show and the crash scene during the credits.

Several seasons ago we all heard someone from the mainland tell us "There were no survivors of Oceanic 815". We've known for years they were all dead.

Also, Purgatory had to be the ending. It was the only way to tie everything together. Unless you went with the Gilligans Island ending and they all go home safe. This wouldn't work though due to the multitude of supernatural events on the island.

What I don't like about the series was the existence of Jacob and the MIB. You can't explain them away with the purgatory ending. In my mind, they are the ONLY loose end. What was the MIB? Why was he a smoke monster? How did it happen to him and not to Jack or Desmond who also went into the golden light? Why does the island need a "protector"? If the MIB makes it "off the island" does that mean he comes back to life in the real world? Too many questions surrounding these two characters.

purple_rein wrote: If anyone just watched Kimmel, I think he got it right.

He showed a clip from the first episode of this season when they are on the plane and feel turbulance and Jack is clutching to the arm rest. Rose tells him, "You can let go now" and he does.

That is when he dies down below on the island as he sees the plane fly over. Then, he moves to purgatory (the flash sideways) and the plane lands for his second chance at life and where he must "remember and let go" like Christian told him. He was the last one to remember so he is the last one in the church. Everyone is waiting for him and they all move on together.

this was my interpretation also....btw,what was the deal with Jack having/not having a son?
IMO,I believe Ben was like Moses--his penance for killing Jacob is never being able to see the promised land that he was instrumental in leading the Israelites (ie passengers) to.

ksig, the final scene with the plane and everything is something ABC added, not the writers. I don't believe they were dead the whole time, and there were tons of hints of that throughout the finale.

The scene that tells me they were dead the whole time was Jack's eye closing at the end. That was the same scene as the opening of the show but instead of staying open and living the whole life on the island...it closes because he dies. They all died on the crash.

ohiotiger - where did you hear ABC added that? I haven't watched the Kimmel stuff yet...were there really 3 alternate endings? Don't tell me what they were...just if they really do exist. There are just as many clues throughout the series that could show they were dead the whole time too. The ultimate clue was what I mentioned above.

vball10set - That is a great thought...I hadn't thought of that. I think it could go either way though because I don't think Ben led the Oceanic passengers to the promised land...he stood in the way as much as he helped.

I think there will be enough speculation about this that in a year or two, the writers will clarify everything with a definitive answer. I think they will let speculation run wild for a while though.

Kimmel endings were just jokes.

One reason I believe the island was real, was the fact that they showed Jack's dad's shoes hanging from the tree, and they were worn out. They had obviously been there for a long time. When we first saw them, they looked brand new. This was there way of indicating the passage of time. Also, if they died on the crash, how in the world do ben/miles/juliet/etc. fit into it? They are clearly people (Ben and Hurley rule the island for a period of time after LOST).

PLUS, Kate's line of-- I missed you...so much. Was my proof that she flew off the island on the Ajira plane and lived out her life without Jack before dying.

They did not die in the crash. The Island and everything that happened on it was real. The alt timeline is the only thing tht wasn't real...they made it up in their minds (purgatory or whaever you want to call it). Once they realized they could let go and move on, the all met at the church and did so. If they all died in the original crash, then the whole Jack/Kate thing is bogus...the Sawyer/Juliet is ridiculous...because neither of them would have met each other. It's pretty evident. The only reason they had Jack lay int he bamboo and die by closing his eye is to bring the show "full circle"...nothing else.

We also know that the Ajira plane was wired with explosives. Her missing him could just be that she was ready to go before he was and she was waiting on him to come to terms. For all we know, the blink of an eye could be decades in the afterlife.

All I know is...I still have to think about this whole thing.

Count me in as someone who will buy the whole series on DVD when they release the version that has the writers explanations (I heard this on another forum...there is supposed to be a DVD collection where the writers explain all).

I was pretty sure they ruled out everyone being dead on the island in Ab Aeterno, when Jacob was dunking Richard's head in the water yelling, YOU STILL THINK YOU'RE DEAD!!! And then Richard said he wanted to live.

The eye closing scene was not in the bamboo field...it was identical to the eye opening from the start of the series. If they wanted the "full circle" idea, they would have just shown him closing his eyes in the panned back scene of the bamboo field. They instead cut to the close up view from the beginning of the series. There is more to the eye closing thing than just him dying. They actually showed it open...then close in the close up...not just close. If they all died in the crash, then the island could be purgatory and all of their souls could have easily met there, thus creating the storylines of Jack/Kate, Sawyer/Juliet and so on.

To me it makes more sense for the island to be purgatory with all of the supernatural things surrounding it rather than it being real.

That could also explain the many different cultures represented throughout the course of the island...The giant statue of Anubis could have been built by Egyptians in purgatory...the temple from this season had Aztec/Maya similarities...and so on. Maybe the island is where these souls have gone and they left impressions of their cultures behind before they passed.

To me that makes a heck of a lot more sense than an island with a hole that lets out evil, or a real life smoke monster.

Yet another thought...

The island is underwater at the start of season 6 as a result (we think) of the bomb detonating in 1977. There is a scene in an early season of the plane being underwater and a news report saying there were no survivors of 815. This could be proof that the plane crashed, settled under the sea on the now sunken island, and there were no survivors, thus making the island itself purgatory?

If they were dead the whole time i just dont see how people like Whidmore and Eloise Hawking come into play.

Whidmore and Eloise had been on the island as others...both were the leader of the others at some point.

I do think that if the writers would answer one single question...the whole thing would fall into place:

When exactly did Jack die?

Was it the crash, the stabbing by the MIB, or some other time?

I wanted to process what I saw before commenting: first off, what a tremendous finale, one of the most memorable in the history of television, period. When it ended, I was pleased; when I woke up this morning, my brain began to comprehend how special it was.

Second, I am loving everyone's comments in this thread, you guys are some sharp fans that really seem to get it -- it has been fun bantering with you during the course of this show, which I will miss dearly.

My take: originally, I thought it was Purgatory, and that everyone died in the plane crash. But in bed last night thinking about it, I changed my stance. Everything that we saw happen on the island DID happen, and the occurences on this island represented the most important times in the "survivors'" lives. Some eventually died, some eventually left the island, and some stayed behind to stand guard ... and all, eventually (and at different times) died as nature took its course. But like the island -- and what was stressed many times throughout the series -- EVERYONE needed to be together to "leave." In the afterlife, everyone had reconnected to their island persona after being "lost" ... except Jack. Even with hints, he fought it, until he saw his father. It was then that dead Jack, lost in his afterlife, finally let go ... and everyone was truly together again, allowed to leave.