Intresting.........

BigAppleBuckeye wrote: PS, I was hoping for an appearance from Mr. Eko (remember him?). That guy rocked! Oh well ...

The producers offered the actor who played Eko a bunch of money to appear, but he asked for something like five times what they were offering.

Eko was supposed to be a much bigger character, but the actor hated living in Hawaii (how that is possible, I couldn't tell you). And Ben Linus was only supposed to be on for three episodes. But once Eko wanted off, they had all of this stuff to fill and they filled it with Ben.

And to chime in to previous posts, they were not dead all along. Christian made it clear that everything that happened on the island really happened.

RiverRat13 wrote: And to chime in to previous posts, they were not dead all along. Christian made it clear that everything that happened on the island really happened.

Yup and that it also made clear by the line by Miles (I think?) who said whatever happened, happened a while back.

Which brings me to ...

The H-bomb did not reset the events as we were led to believe but did serve as a means to jump everyone back to the present. I think when Juliet said "it worked," I believe she had a near-death glimpse of her life in the alt. universe and not realizing that what she saw was the afterlife, she assumed that it was in fact the world without the plane crash.

I saw a really cool theory where one guy basically said the island is more or less a "living purgatory" while Jacob is the ruler. He brings people to prove that they are actually good "able to go to the light" as our 815ers do in the alt-universe. If you pass the island test and prove yourself good (and survive temptation and corruption from the evil "black smoke/mib") you can redeem yourself in the alt-uni and move on with the most important people to you(alt-dead-uni).

Was a cool theory I thought. Basically there are two levels of purgatory. One in the living world for people that have lost their way (nice pun!)-- a place they can prove themselves good despite their pasts, and one where those that die can meet up and move-on together (only after proving their goodness on the island).

Perhaps I completely missed this, but how did Eloise Hawking know how to get Jack, Kate, Hurley, etc BACK to the island the second time on that plane (where they basically all vanished mid-air, then reappeared on the island)? I know she used to be one of the others (and pretty damn hot in her youth, I must say haha), but what gave her that insight? Was that ever addressed?

This song will always remind me of LOST

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BigAppleBuckeye wrote: Perhaps I completely missed this, but how did Eloise Hawking know how to get Jack, Kate, Hurley, etc BACK to the island the second time on that plane (where they basically all vanished mid-air, then reappeared on the island)? I know she used to be one of the others (and pretty damn hot in her youth, I must say haha), but what gave her that insight? Was that ever addressed?

I don't think it was ever completely explained, but I'm guessing as the one-time leader of the Others, she knew how to get off and come back to the island even after it moved. But I don't believe a definitive answer was ever given.

I read an interesting post on a LOST message board, asking if Kate, Sawyer, Claire, etc. got married once they left the island on the plane flown by Lipitas ... you would have to assume that they lived their lives post-island. Assuming even one of them got married, why wouldn't they later cross over with their spouse? My guess is that the importance of the island relationship trumped this, but kindof a cool point I thought.

Would also love to know what the Hurley lottery numbers represented, why Walt was so important, etc ... gonna miss this show!

Here is a really good recap to read: http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/05/all-roads-lead-here-end-recap-by.html


As for the numbers, they were revealed in the Alternate Reality Lost game (between season 3-4 I think, and is CANON to the show's story) that the Dharma Initiative hired a guy named Valenzetti to calculate when the world would end. His equation came up with core human and environmental core factors showing that the world would end 100 percent sure within 30 years or something. The core values were 4 8 15 16 23 42.

The Alternate Reality Game showed that the Dharma folks came to the island with the goal of researching to change one of these core values, so they could save the world from destruction.

Now, lets look at the candidates, who happen to all have these same values as their numbers. Coincidence? I think not. The end of the world calculated by valanzetti is the same end that is caused by smokie being set free from the island.

But one of these factors was changed by our variable, number 23, Jack Shepherd. Hell, even Faraday tells Jack that humans are the variables in the equations. So Jack, with his ballsy move to kill smokie, actually changed one of these core numbers, thus changing the date of the end of the world.

That is my theory and I am sticking to it.

ohiotiger33 wrote: Here is a really good recap to read: http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/05/all-roads-lead-here-end-recap-by.html


As for the numbers, they were revealed in the Alternate Reality Lost game (between season 3-4 I think, and is CANON to the show's story) that the Dharma Initiative hired a guy named Valenzetti to calculate when the world would end. His equation came up with core human and environmental core factors showing that the world would end 100 percent sure within 30 years or something. The core values were 4 8 15 16 23 42.

The Alternate Reality Game showed that the Dharma folks came to the island with the goal of researching to change one of these core values, so they could save the world from destruction.

Now, lets look at the candidates, who happen to all have these same values as their numbers. Coincidence? I think not. The end of the world calculated by valanzetti is the same end that is caused by smokie being set free from the island.

But one of these factors was changed by our variable, number 23, Jack Shepherd. Hell, even Faraday tells Jack that humans are the variables in the equations. So Jack, with his ballsy move to kill smokie, actually changed one of these core numbers, thus changing the date of the end of the world.

That is my theory and I am sticking to it.

That's fantastic stuff right there ohiotiger ... I tip my cap to this theory, great post. Another mind bender to contend with, my brain has been doing cartwheels ever since 9pm last night ...

BigAppleBuckeye wrote: Perhaps I completely missed this, but how did Eloise Hawking know how to get Jack, Kate, Hurley, etc BACK to the island the second time on that plane (where they basically all vanished mid-air, then reappeared on the island)? I know she used to be one of the others (and pretty damn hot in her youth, I must say haha), but what gave her that insight? Was that ever addressed?

She was in the Dharma staion, The Lamp Post or whatever it's called. She had connections to Dharma and Widmore, which had revealed that Jacob had come to him and expressed what he needed to do to save the Island (kill smokey). Dharma found the Island before, they did again thru Hawking. There is a lot of loose science in the show, which made it so great.
Obviously a ton of stuff on the Island didn't make sense and cannot be explained, but that's sci-fi stuff and you just go with it. The Island was found though using science, according to Hawking.

I just finished watching and I loved it. I'm still not sure which theory I'm going to go with yet.

I'm bummed out, I really enjoyed Lost.......sad to see it go

jsig - While I won't argue all of the points you have made, I will argue one. You keep bringing up the plane they found in the ocean and think everyone died. That was refuted in an episode where Lipedus said the captain was not the captain and when Widmore admitted to planting the plane there. Everyone was alive on the island after the plane crash.

Really enjoyed the finale as everything came full circle. Matthew Fox's explanation on Jimmy Kimmel pretty much summed everything up that people have mentioned on here. The alternate reality was the chance for the Losties to let go so they could move on, a purgatory of sorts. Jack took Jacob's place, kept the MIB from leaving and then died. Hurley took Jack's place with Ben as the new Alpert. Everyone had died at some point in time and tried to find themselves and eventually did in the church. Jack's Dad explained it perfectly when talking to Jack in the church. I am satisfied with how the show ended, the important aspects were answered and the show came full circle.

Not sure about anyone else, but I teared up a little when Vincent came and laid down neck to Jack at the end. Thought is was very touching.

Scenes like this are what made LOST addictive to people. This is from Season 1, Ep. 3 - Tabula Rasa.




It's things like this that make me want to watch the whole series again, and I'm sure I will. Writing was pure genius. This show was always about the characters, what made them tick, forgiving themselves, letting go of thier past discrections, and moving on towards a better place...it's just funny that the story was set on a magical Island of sorts.

BigAppleBuckeye wrote: I read an interesting post on a LOST message board, asking if Kate, Sawyer, Claire, etc. got married once they left the island on the plane flown by Lipitas ... you would have to assume that they lived their lives post-island. Assuming even one of them got married, why wouldn't they later cross over with their spouse? My guess is that the importance of the island relationship trumped this, but kindof a cool point I thought.

Kimmel had a good theory that makes this marriage point not matter. He said that the end was Jack's personal way of moving on and not the whole crew moving on together. If that was just Jack's way, then he saw those most important to him. If Kate got off the island and married to someone else, then maybe her moving on experience was different.

So, the question is was that really all of the Losties waiting for Jack so they can move together or was it just Jack seeing those most important to him before he moved on?

So I just watched the last 30 minutes of last night's finale again on my TiVo ... what a PERFECT ending. I think the shock value of last night blurred some of its impact the first time around. I admit, I felt a little tear welling up, especially when Vincent laid down next to Jack. I wouldn't change a thing ... perfect!

any person who has lost their father had to feel the emotion of Jack and his dad's embrace..what a powerful moment...

Hopefully Richard gets to live forever off the island and they make a lost movie about him being a superhero.

Rotinaj wrote: Hopefully Richard gets to live forever off the island and they make a lost movie about him being a superhero.

Doubtful, since Miles found a gray hair on him when they took the canoe over to Hydra island.

Once Jacob faded away, Richard lost his immortality.

vball10set wrote: any person who has lost their father had to feel the emotion of Jack and his dad's embrace..what a powerful moment...

I agree. The scene that moved me the most was the birth scene with Claire, Kate and Charlie. Maybe its a female thing but that really got to me.

GUYS! Someone at Bad Robot Productions wrote this, and it is PERFECT.

Beware: Long.

First ...
The Island:

It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.

Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.

Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...

Now...

Sideways World:

Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).

A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

Awesome. Thanks, what a great read.

Something else I have been thinking about. The idea that there is no time in the alternate reality makes a lot of things more clear:

The one thing that was confusing me a bunch was the visions Hurley has of the dead people after they leave the island, especially Charlie. Charlie obviously seemed enlightened and "moved on" at the Santa Rosa scene, and it didn't make sense to me because Charlie hadn't moved on yet.

But when I got to thinking about it, there really is no time in the after life (only fools are slave to time and space) and this scene now makes perfect sense. Charlie, ana lucia, etc. knew Hurley was destined to run the island, most likely because they already knew him in the alt (yes I know he hadn't died yet, but I get the feeling that doesn't make a difference).

Makes sense to me!

ptown_trojans_1 wrote: Awesome. Thanks, what a great read.

I concur..thanks tiger!!!