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Understanding the Cavs cap situation:

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SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
May 23, 2010 3:46 PM
I love how when you give someone credit for being what they are and someone disagrees that they are that good, you're instantly called a nuthugger.

For instance, I say LeBron James is the best player in the game and someone says, "you're a LeBron nuthugger". LOL
May 23, 2010 3:46pm
2quik4u's avatar

2quik4u

Senior Member

4,388 posts
May 23, 2010 4:04 PM
SQ_Crazies wrote: I love how when you give someone credit for being what they are and someone disagrees that they are that good, you're instantly called a nuthugger.

For instance, I say LeBron James is the best player in the game and someone says, "you're a LeBron nuthugger". LOL
no its when one, such as yourself will defend lebron to the death
May 23, 2010 4:04pm
2quik4u's avatar

2quik4u

Senior Member

4,388 posts
May 23, 2010 4:04 PM
also im gonna ask again where do you coach at? You know so much more then the rest of us
May 23, 2010 4:04pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
May 23, 2010 4:06 PM
LOL
May 23, 2010 4:06pm
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jpake1

Senior Member

2,389 posts
May 23, 2010 5:17 PM
Give me D12 24/7 over Andy. I think Andy is just a bit overpaid; probably by 5-7M over his whole contract. I need more offense out of that guy, and just not EASY buckets b/c of LeBron. He's an annoying defender (compliment) that's pretty good at it. I'd still take a few more PC/C type guys over him on defense.
May 23, 2010 5:17pm
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
May 23, 2010 9:45 PM
hoops23 wrote: Really? Then why were so many teams trying to sign his ass when he was a FA? Why is he inquired about during trade talks?

People here know Joakim Noah, who is pretty much the same player. Noah is a better offensive player, but Andy is still the better defender.
Why did Noah eat Varejao alive in their first round series?
May 23, 2010 9:45pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
May 23, 2010 10:17 PM
thedynasty1998 wrote:
hoops23 wrote: Really? Then why were so many teams trying to sign his ass when he was a FA? Why is he inquired about during trade talks?

People here know Joakim Noah, who is pretty much the same player. Noah is a better offensive player, but Andy is still the better defender.
Why did Noah eat Varejao alive in their first round series?
LOL! What? Game 1, the ONLY game where Andy was healthy he had a GREAT game. He also injured himself in the 4th quarter of game 1 and was suffering the rest of the postseason with severe back spasms.

I mean, by your posts, it's obvious what you're trying to do. I would suggest you top talking about the game of basketball though. You're letting your hatred of the Cavs blind you about a very good player in Andy Varejao. A player who is arguably one of the top 2 or 3 most important players on a team that's won 60 games the last two seasons.

Say what you want, but we're not the only ones pimping Andy up. John Hollinger, among many ESPN analysts were pimping him up.. Also, the AP must have felt he was a very good player, he was among top 5 for DPOY and 6th man.
May 23, 2010 10:17pm
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hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
May 23, 2010 10:20 PM
gibby08 wrote: Maybe because they have guys who are better than them in front of them...but they way you guys talk.Andy is the 2nd best player on the Cavs,so therefor he should start
Dude, are you SERIOUSLY this stupid? No wonder your site failed so damn miserably.

Manu Ginobli is the BEST player on the Spurs. he starts and comes off the bench for them. He's a glorified 6th man.

Same with Jason Terry. It could be argued that he's the 2nd best player on Dallas.

Andy is the same way, he starts some games but he also comes off the bench. He comes off the bench because he instantly provides a spark for the Cavs with his defense and intensity.
May 23, 2010 10:20pm
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thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
May 23, 2010 11:04 PM
First off, I'm a fan of the Cavs and want them to succeed. However I'm a very casual fan and can watch a game without being biased.

My observation of Varejao is that he plays really hard, is a good piece on a good team playing along a star, but isn't elite. He's an above average defender and below average offensive player.

One of my problems with the Cavs is that as you say, Varejao is one of the top 3 players for the Cavs. I don't think he is, but by you making that argument, you are proving how bad the rest of the roster is. How many teams in the NBA could you argue that Varejao is a top 3 player on that mean?

Certainly not Boston, Lakers, Phoenix, Orlando, Utah, Denver, Atlanta and probably a majority of the other teams in the league.

Lebron has carried this team for the last few years and they lose to a better team and now everyone wants to be critical of him.
May 23, 2010 11:04pm
Z

ZeroCool

Senior Member

264 posts
May 24, 2010 12:27 AM
uh, actually av could be considered one of the top three on phoenix, orlando, utah, and atlanta maybe even denver. name three better players on those teams that i mentioned. phoenix, you have nash and everybody else(amare is as overated as howard), orlando, he might be their best player right now, definitely in the top 3, utah, williams, boozer and then you have everybody else(if ak47 would play up to his potential i would take them off of this list), atlanta, joe johnson and everybody else, putting atlanta in with this arguement was pretty dumb, denver, billups and anthony, so yes av could be a top three player for any of these teams. maybe i left out a player, if so, let me know. AV is overpaid but you cant replace his energy.(offensive rebounds/tips) i was surprised to see keep up is energetic pace after he signed that monster contract, usually after players get the contract of a lifetime, they mail it in.
May 24, 2010 12:27am
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
May 24, 2010 12:40 AM
People that talk down on Andy's game instantly kill their credibility in basketball arguments because it's very clear that you don't know the game that well and you're basically a casual fan parading as more to fit in with the discussion. Any good basketball mind that would watch the Cavs play without knowing anything about them would say 2 things FOR SURE:

1. This James guy is incredible.
2. That floppy haired guy is a player, what's his name?

If you can't see it, you need to sit down with someone who really understands the game and watch replays of Cavs games--they'll show you why Andy isn't overpaid and why he is a legitimate GOOD player in this league. It's shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that there was so much interest in him during his FA period. And players who are the kind of player that some of you seem to think Andy is don't often get long term contracts from one of the top franchises in the league. The guys that make these decisions know more than any of us, you can say whatever you want about me but to act as if you're smarter than the people in the business is fucking hilarious. And people say I'm arrogant.
May 24, 2010 12:40am
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

Son of the Sun

18,820 posts
May 24, 2010 2:45 AM
hoops23 wrote:Say what you want, but we're not the only ones pimping Andy up. John Hollinger, among many ESPN analysts were pimping him up.. Also, the AP must have felt he was a very good player, he was among top 5 for DPOY and 6th man.
Bill Simmons is another dude who gets Andy's value. He ALWAYS praises him and last year, he had him around the top 20 in Most Valuable Players in the league because of all the hustle/dirty work he does. To me, that's the most underrated attribute in the league because of fantasy sports and how they create an "if it's not on the stat line, who cares?!?!??" mentality.

If you watch and digest basketball, you would understand how a healthy Andy can completely disrupt things for the opposing team. He might finish with a line like 8/5/2, but will have more overall impact than the guy with a 17/6/5 line.
May 24, 2010 2:45am
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hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
May 24, 2010 2:52 AM
Exactly^

His hustle/scrappiness provides the Cavs with so many extra possessions because he's always ripping rebounds away from the other team or prying the ball loose in key situations.

I 100% agree with you about the fantasy sport line as well. People think you have to be a 20 point scorer to be a great basketball player, which is far from the truth. Andy is great at what he does, the fact that people don't see that is beyond comprehension.

It's the same way in baseball and how people use batting average to overrate or underrated a player. There are many, many ways to rate and value a player, and if you go by PPG or BPG on Andy, it may not look special, but when you actually sit down and digest EVERYTHING that Andy does, you'll see why he is so valued to the Cavs.

In fact, next to LeBron, he may be untouchable. (unless it's in part of a deal for a legit star player)
May 24, 2010 2:52am
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SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
May 24, 2010 7:34 AM
thedynasty1998 wrote: First off, I'm a fan of the Cavs and want them to succeed. However I'm a very casual fan and can watch a game without being biased.
What the fuck does that even mean?! I'm a fan but just a casual one????

Translation: I say I'm a fan so if they win a title I can feel the thrill of it and claim my fanhood for a championship team! If they lose, I can argue with all the real fans and say I'm unbiased because i'm not ACTUALLY a fan...
May 24, 2010 7:34am
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thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
May 24, 2010 8:35 AM
SportsAndLady wrote:
thedynasty1998 wrote: First off, I'm a fan of the Cavs and want them to succeed. However I'm a very casual fan and can watch a game without being biased.
What the fuck does that even mean?! I'm a fan but just a casual one????

Translation: I say I'm a fan so if they win a title I can feel the thrill of it and claim my fanhood for a championship team! If they lose, I can argue with all the real fans and say I'm unbiased because i'm not ACTUALLY a fan...
Honestly, that's just about right. I enjoy watching the NBA, but don't really get into it. I only watch the national games on the holidays during the regular season and love the playoffs. If ther Cavs are in the playoffs, or are not, I enjoy the playoffs just as much. However, I root for the Cavs, but am not that disappointed when they lose.

And those who question my basketball knowledge should know that my basketball resume is likely better than yours.
May 24, 2010 8:35am
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thedynasty1998

Senior Member

6,844 posts
May 24, 2010 8:44 AM
ZeroCool wrote: uh, actually av could be considered one of the top three on phoenix, orlando, utah, and atlanta maybe even denver. name three better players on those teams that i mentioned. phoenix, you have nash and everybody else(amare is as overated as howard), orlando, he might be their best player right now, definitely in the top 3, utah, williams, boozer and then you have everybody else(if ak47 would play up to his potential i would take them off of this list), atlanta, joe johnson and everybody else, putting atlanta in with this arguement was pretty dumb, denver, billups and anthony, so yes av could be a top three player for any of these teams. maybe i left out a player, if so, let me know. AV is overpaid but you cant replace his energy.(offensive rebounds/tips) i was surprised to see keep up is energetic pace after he signed that monster contract, usually after players get the contract of a lifetime, they mail it in.
If you really want me to list players more valuable, I will:
Phoenix - Nash, Stoudemire and Richardson
Orlando - Howard, Carter and Nelson
Utah - Williams, Boozer, Millsap (or Okur or AK47)
Atlanta - Johnson, Crawford, Smith (or Horford)
Denver - Anthony, Billups, Martin (just for arguments sake, although I think Smith is the better player)

I don't think anyone understands how much Lebron does for AV. If Lebron leaves, Varejao's value immediately declines, because he will get exposed more offensively.
May 24, 2010 8:44am
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SportsAndLady

Senior Member

35,632 posts
May 24, 2010 10:06 AM
thedynasty1998 wrote:
SportsAndLady wrote:
thedynasty1998 wrote: First off, I'm a fan of the Cavs and want them to succeed. However I'm a very casual fan and can watch a game without being biased.
What the fuck does that even mean?! I'm a fan but just a casual one????

Translation: I say I'm a fan so if they win a title I can feel the thrill of it and claim my fanhood for a championship team! If they lose, I can argue with all the real fans and say I'm unbiased because i'm not ACTUALLY a fan...
Honestly, that's just about right. I enjoy watching the NBA, but don't really get into it. I only watch the national games on the holidays during the regular season and love the playoffs. If ther Cavs are in the playoffs, or are not, I enjoy the playoffs just as much. However, I root for the Cavs, but am not that disappointed when they lose.

And those who question my basketball knowledge should know that my basketball resume is likely better than yours.
If you dont really care all that much about the Cavs, why even call yourself a fan? Why not just say you're a fan of the NBA, not just one specific team..because it seems to me that's how it sounds.

And where did I question your basketball IQ? What do I look like, SQ??
May 24, 2010 10:06am
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
May 24, 2010 11:16 AM
I don't question anyones "basketball resume", any thing I've ever said has been based on what you've spewed on here.

It's funny that you say that LeBron does so much for AV and that is value will decline if he goes anywhere else--because he plays so well off of LeBron. I said literally the same thing months ago, now you say that as if you're trying to inform us of something. But guess what? As long as he's playing along side LBJ, he's incredible. I don't understand what difference it makes considering he DOES play with LeBron. Also, we're both just making a huge assumption anyways considering we've never seen AV play without LeBron. Neither of us can say for certain that he wouldn't possibly be better.
May 24, 2010 11:16am