posted by O-Trap

Really?  He's giving props to China? The country whose minimum wage is the equivalent of $322 per month?

Sounds like Biden isn't the only one forgetting things.

I only watched the last 20 minutes, but Biden looked competent and sharp.  Really hit Bernie on single payer - "that's what they have in Italy...it's not working".

None of it really matters.  Everyone has turned the coronavirus into a referendum on Trump.  I think it's a pretty big misstep to already be declaring it a disaster and failure.  It could get a lot worse and still not come close to the typical flu season.  And then when what you were convinced would happen doesn't...how do you criticize Trump in the biggest test of leadership since 9/11?

Here's you October surprise: Cov19 vaccine in mass production.

Biden basically lied about everything he has ever done in politics.  

Bernie roasted him on how bad Joes former record in DC really is.  That all doesnt matter.  Dems are blind sheep that want status quo.

posted by gut

I only watched the last 20 minutes, but Biden looked competent and sharp.  Really hit Bernie on single payer - "that's what they have in Italy...it's not working".

None of it really matters.  Everyone has turned the coronavirus into a referendum on Trump.  I think it's a pretty big misstep to already be declaring it a disaster and failure.  It could get a lot worse and still not come close to the typical flu season.  And then when what you were convinced would happen doesn't...how do you criticize Trump in the biggest test of leadership since 9/11?

Here's you October surprise: Cov19 vaccine in mass production.

I honestly don't think he's handled it as poorly as many are saying, and I'm the furthest thing from a fan.

He's seemingly put competent people in charge of handling it.  I suppose Pence's inclusion was a bit of a head-scratcher, but I'm guessing Pence is mostly just acting as a glorified note-taker and liaison between the Oval Office and the task force.  The addition of Dr. Fauci has been an excellent move, as he's really quite apt at communicating clearly with the press without making it sound sensationalized.

Trump's self-aggrandizing when speaking about it isn't a great look, but at this point, that's par for the course.  Whether he does good things or bad things in office, he always sounds like an idiot talking about them.  Actions are more important, of course, so you take the win when you can get it.

I've avoided the primary debates, but I'm surprised that Joe sounded as competent as he did if that's the case.  REALLY glad he used the single-payer system as a barb at Bernie.  Not because I think he'd sway Bernie's opinion on the matter (Bernie has a long history of maintaining support for historically failed policies, after all), but because the public needs to see that.

IF Trump doesn't do something public to completely botch the COVID-19 outbreak, I think how he's handled it thus far pretty much guarantees his re-election.

Then again, I thought Hillary was a shoo-in, so what do I know?

posted by O-Trap

IF Trump doesn't do something public to completely botch the COVID-19 outbreak, I think how he's handled it thus far pretty much guarantees his re-election.

Again, the Left has pushed all-in that this is not containable.  It either ends-up being perfectly manageable and we have a return [mostly] to normalcy, the markets rebound and the Left will have basically handed him the election by "losing their shit" prematurely, once again.  Or it does spiral out-of-control....and that will just be the beginning of our problems once the Dems have a supermajority and all 3 branches (edit: holy shit that's way scarier than the coronavirus - a MANDATE to then push thru the Green New Deal and tens of trillions in handouts).

It's hard to see a middle ground where this isn't a decisive event for most voters.

posted by gut

Again, the Left has pushed all-in that this is not containable.  It either ends-up being perfectly manageable and we have a return [mostly] to normalcy, the markets rebound and the Left will have basically handed him the election by "losing their shit" prematurely, once again.  Or it does spiral out-of-control....and that will just be the beginning of our problems once the Dems have a supermajority and all 3 branches (edit: holy shit that's way scarier than the coronavirus - a MANDATE to then push thru the Green New Deal and tens of trillions in handouts).

It's hard to see a middle ground where this isn't a decisive event for most voters.

Perhaps, though I'm not sure I'm as confident on the "spiral out of control" scenario as you are.  Other than maybe getting a faster jump on it, which is admittedly a fault, his management hasn't been substantially less than you'd expect from a president.  Well, that and, again, sounding like an idiot.

Even if it gets bad, I can actually see that being used to explain away the market free fall, even though there were underpinnings of a recession prior to the outbreak.  It might still keep him out of the doghouse for the situation itself, for better or worse.

I'm not saying both scenarios aren't the most likely outcomes.  I'm only saying that I could see the latter one having a few different ones, depending on how things go.

posted by O-Trap

I'm not saying both scenarios aren't the most likely outcomes.  I'm only saying that I could see the latter one having a few different ones, depending on how things go.

The market and the economy are pretty good predictors of re-election, and that was all he really had going for him.  If people are still scared and uncertain about Cov-19 come election time, I think it will be a bloodbath for Republicans.  I don't see "everyone else is just as bad" or even "we did better than most other countries" being a winning campaign argument.

It doesn't sound like there's a middling outcome here.  This will either be under control in a few months, or you've lost control.  It sounds, to me, like we're mostly talking a binary outcome - controlled, or not.  If it's controlled, I think Trump gets re-elected as that leaves plenty of time for markets and the economy to recover.

posted by gut

The market and the economy are pretty good predictors of re-election, and that was all he really had going for him.  If people are still scared and uncertain about Cov-19 come election time, I think it will be a bloodbath for Republicans.  I don't see "everyone else is just as bad" or even "we did better than most other countries" being a winning campaign argument.

It doesn't sound like there's a middling outcome here.  This will either be under control in a few months, or you've lost control.  It sounds, to me, like we're mostly talking a binary outcome - controlled, or not.  If it's controlled, I think Trump gets re-elected as that leaves plenty of time for markets and the economy to recover.

You may be right.  My alternative thought was merely to point out that this virus does make an awfully convenient scapegoat for an economy that had been trending positively up until it made landfall in the US.

posted by O-Trap

You may be right.  My alternative thought was merely to point out that this virus does make an awfully convenient scapegoat for an economy that had been trending positively up until it made landfall in the US.

If this is under control, globally, in a few months then the recession is basically over and done with.  Cov-19 would have sucked all the excess out of the markets (and then some), and probably resulted in pent-up demand that would be better than any stimulus you could provide.

Basically, you end-up with a recession that doesn't have the associated job losses or reduced capacity.  That would be something else.  Although that probably leads to a double-dip in 12-24 months.

We are coming out of this by summer.  The economy is going to ramp back up to where it was.  Stock market will be back to 27,000.  Election time the economy will be banging and Trump wins in a landslide.

This corona thing plays into the hands of the party in control right now.  

posted by Spock

We are coming out of this by summer.  The economy is going to ramp back up to where it was.  Stock market will be back to 27,000.  Election time the economy will be banging and Trump wins in a landslide.

 

This corona thing plays into the hands of the party in control right now.  

I don't think you understand how the economy works. The impacts of this will be with us for months....The R word is entirely possible. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I don't think you understand how the economy works. The impacts of this will be with us for months....The R word is entirely possible. 

I mean, spock says some pretty stupid stuff, but I wouldn't call him...the R word.

Never forget during these times that the media still hates you. Multiple blue checks misquoting Trump about hospitals getting their own ventilators and other supplies (including the NYT and HuffPost). Not to mention the media spreading Chinese propaganda that they aren't to blame and trying to say calling it Chinese Virus or Wuhan virus is racist. You'd think in a pandemic they might tone it down, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I don't think you understand how the economy works. The impacts of this will be with us for months....The R word is entirely possible. 

I know a little about this.  Economy indicators are to strong for this to last that long.

posted by justincredible

I mean, spock says some pretty stupid stuff, but I wouldn't call him...the R word.

LOL.

Recession.....that R word 

posted by Spock

I know a little about this.  Economy indicators are to strong for this to last that long.

Ok Larry Kudlow...

posted by ptown_trojans_1

LOL.

Recession.....that R word 

I know, but it was a decent setup for a spock joke.

Cuomo is a jackass....Struggling to keep it under control in NY, so the past few days he's basically advocating martial law and crying about Trump not implementing it.

Typical liberal attitude expecting the Feds to get heavy-handed when a more nuanced state/local response is what's needed.

posted by gut

Cuomo is a jackass....Struggling to keep it under control in NY, so the past few days he's basically advocating martial law and crying about Trump not implementing it.

Typical liberal attitude expecting the Feds to get heavy-handed when a more nuanced state/local response is what's needed.

he would bitch about Trump if he did lock down the city.  Either way.  

posted by Spock

I know a little about this.  Economy indicators are to strong for this to last that long.

Are you actually suggesting that we're expected to believe you know a little something about a pandemic's influence on macroeconomic trends?
 

posted by gut

Cuomo is a jackass....Struggling to keep it under control in NY, so the past few days he's basically advocating martial law and crying about Trump not implementing it.

Typical liberal attitude expecting the Feds to get heavy-handed when a more nuanced state/local response is what's needed.

Cuomo is a twat waffle.

posted by O-Trap

Cuomo is a twat waffle.

 

Never heard that one

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/26/former-uk-pm-gordon-brown-time-for-global-government-to-tackle-coronavirus/

Man people like this are scary...."global government"??????  Yea sure I know a guy name Adolf that would like to be in charge.

posted by Spock

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/26/former-uk-pm-gordon-brown-time-for-global-government-to-tackle-coronavirus/

 

 

Man people like this are scary...."global government"??????  Yea sure I know a guy name Adolf that would like to be in charge.

LOL.

I love how that article twists those words man. What do you think he meant a New World Order? 

He is talking about the typical responses we had in previous worldwide heath crisis like Ebola, Zika, etc. There groups like the G7 and G20 coordinated with the WHO and UN to help fight the issue. 

I'd even say it is more like how we, as a world, eliminated polio back in the day. That was a UN led effort and is widely seen as the greatest accomplishment by the UN. 

Yeah, the fact some people look at Breitbart articles as having more worth than simply being something that could be printed out to use as emergency toilet paper in these times is pretty scary.

posted by Heretic

Yeah, the fact some people look at Breitbart articles as having more worth than simply being something that could be printed out to use as emergency toilet paper in these times is pretty scary.

Ironically, it's is often people who constantly complain about the evil media bias that highlight articles from places like Breitbart. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

LOL.

I love how that article twists those words man. What do you think he meant a New World Order? 

He is talking about the typical responses we had in previous worldwide heath crisis like Ebola, Zika, etc. There groups like the G7 and G20 coordinated with the WHO and UN to help fight the issue. 

I'd even say it is more like how we, as a world, eliminated polio back in the day. That was a UN led effort and is widely seen as the greatest accomplishment by the UN. 

Regardless what was meant, little Ohio is doing far better than the U.S. as a whole and better than a number of countries all over the world. Perhaps a local approach may be better.