Progressives, part 3...

In before " I don't know what you're talking about, I was just saying _______."

The point really has very little to do with slavery but rather that fact that the concept of “god” or religion in general is an interpretation from men. God will never talk to you, he didn’t write the bible, therefore all you have is the interpretation of god by men or government in this case. The Bible was translated many times by men so it really can’t be from god if that makes sense? 

At some point religion was used to say that black people were inferior was just one example of how men use god or religion for their own objectives. 

I will add what you wrote again as usual has very little to do with the conversation. Sometimes I wonder if you even actually read my posts or just google some response that is just slightly related. It’s not that I don’t understand what you are saying it’s just that it has nothing to do with the conversation or the point and I often don’t know why u said it 

I’m assuming a lot here but I’m going to assume that Justin hasn’t personally talked to god to know his wishes 

Yeah, that's enough of this conversation for me. Enjoy your day. 

Hmm ok I don’t think I said anything out of line or was saying anyone was right or wrong. Just stating from my perspective that what we know of god has came from men so it’s hard to be governed by god and not men 

Apparently, Christianity is the only religion.  Also, Jesus was a racist.

Learn something new every day.  Our children are in good hands.

posted by gut

Apparently, Christianity is the only religion.  Also, Jesus was a racist.

Learn something new every day.  Our children are in good hands.

Nailed it!

posted by iclfan2

Laken Riley gets murdered in Georgia by an illegal immigrant (caught and released). No one gives a shit bc she isn’t black. Yet half the country cries about Saint George Floyd. Clowns. But y’all tell me the parties are the same. They aren’t.

Nah, the other side just pretends a stupid rioting twat like that Babbitt chick was a "patriot" who was martyred for the cause or whatever.

posted by jmog

I think it sets a difficult precedent for sure, especially for cost/liability insurance for IVF facilities.

That being said...

The left argument for abortion is that it is ALWAYS the mother's choice, basically her choice if its a human/person or not. 

If  you don't buy this, that the woman chooses if the fetus is a human or not. Understand that in most states the woman can choose to kill the fetus (abortion) but if she WANTS the child and someone assaults her and the fetus dies, the assailant can be charged with homicide or manslaughter of the fetus.

So when the mother wants the fetus, it is counted as a human/person, when the mother doesn't want it, then it is not a human person.

In this Alabama case, the mother wanted those embryos, the IVF place (accident or negligence) allowed for them to be destroyed. So its the mother's choice if they were human/persons or not right?

I know that sounds like an asinine argument, but that just follows the "pro-choice" logic to the end.

I agree that the IVF facility should be held liable given this circumstance.

However, your last few sentences is what worries me. The issues on where life begins and when it is viable are religious, moral, ethical, and scientific questions. 

It is not a matter of government. I think many of here would agree with that. The last thing we want is one particular religious view dictating when life begins for all. 

posted by justincredible

Yeah, that's enough of this conversation for me. Enjoy your day. 

I got ya Justin. I agree with you know the foundation of this country and the concept of a higher power or God. 

The whole Christian National is taking one particular religious view and having it dominate over all others

That goes against what you are talking about. 

David Fench had a good take on it today. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/opinion/christian-nationalism.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I agree that the IVF facility should be held liable given this circumstance.

However, your last few sentences is what worries me. The issues on where life begins and when it is viable are religious, moral, ethical, and scientific questions. 

It is not a matter of government. I think many of here would agree with that. The last thing we want is one particular religious view dictating when life begins for all. 

So. There is some portion of you, also, that definitely is leaning into libertarianism lol!

Doesn't mean you have swan-dived into it, just some leanings. Which is what the majority of us on this site can agree to.

posted by iclfan2

I’ll let you know if I die before then. It’s a simple thing that can be minimized, and Biden didn’t  and then tried to blame the right (there is no detriment to blocking the border, but ok!). There are plenty of other reasons I won’t vote for that, but it’s easy shit like slowing the border that should have been done. I’m pretty sure you know what party is giving no bail or whatever in the name of equity too. 

I’m still willing to bet that your outrage will be focused - for you - on something different in 12 months.

posted by geeblock

However at some point “god” said black people did not qualify as real people which was decided by “men”? 

I promise slavery has not affected you at all, just like it hasn’t anyone who is alive right now.

posted by jmog

I promise slavery has not affected you at all, just like it hasn’t anyone who is alive right now.

Well they had to bring the national guard to the schools so my father could attend a decent school and there were riots when he attended college, my parents were married 9 months after interracial marriage was made legal in 1968, so yea I wouldn’t have to mention slavery.  That argument about no one being alive when there were slaves has to be the top 10 dumbest arguments someone could make. Great job  .

 However the driving force behind much of the hatred was backed by religion which was more my point than anything having to do with my life but thanks for chiming in with something that wasn’t said. 

The whole point had very little to do with slavery but the fact that religion all over the world was often used for man’s objectives. Weather we look at Israel/palestine, the crusades, nazis, manifest destiny or *gasp*slavery. I wasn’t alive for most of those but see how easy it is to reference something I wasn’t around for? Do better. 

Side note. White people telling black people how they haven’t had to experience racism will never not be funny to me. 

posted by geeblock

Well they had to bring the national guard to the schools so my father could attend a decent school and there were riots when he attended college, my parents were married 9 months after interracial marriage was made legal in 1968, so yea I wouldn’t have to mention slavery.  That argument about no one being alive when there were slaves has to be the top 10 dumbest arguments someone could make. Great job  .

 However the driving force behind much of the hatred was backed by religion which was more my point than anything having to do with my life but thanks for chiming in with something that wasn’t said. 

The whole point had very little to do with slavery but the fact that religion all over the world was often used for man’s objectives. Weather we look at Israel/palestine, the crusades, nazis, manifest destiny or *gasp*slavery. I wasn’t alive for most of those but see how easy it is to reference something I wasn’t around for? Do better. 

Slavery and racism aren't exactly the same as I think that is the disconnect. 

You are combining the two.

I also think you are being too general about slavery and religion in the Constitution. The founding fathers were all over the place faith wise, but all agreed in some sort of higher power. See Jeffersons Bible as one example. 

 If you have to condemn religion for slavery you must also acknowledge it had a big hand in its defeat here. The anti-slavery movement of the 19th century was mostly driven by Christians and people from the north. 

I get what you are saying, I think, but you are just combining a lot and making broad generalizations.

posted by geeblock

Well they had to bring the national guard to the schools so my father could attend a decent school and there were riots when he attended college, my parents were married 9 months after interracial marriage was made legal in 1968, so yea I wouldn’t have to mention slavery.  That argument about no one being alive when there were slaves has to be the top 10 dumbest arguments someone could make. Great job  .

 However the driving force behind much of the hatred was backed by religion which was more my point than anything having to do with my life but thanks for chiming in with something that wasn’t said. 

The whole point had very little to do with slavery but the fact that religion all over the world was often used for man’s objectives. Weather we look at Israel/palestine, the crusades, nazis, manifest destiny or *gasp*slavery. I wasn’t alive for most of those but see how easy it is to reference something I wasn’t around for? Do better. 

I didn't say no one alive has been affected by racism or Jim Crowe laws. So before you call someone else stupid, actually read what they typed.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Slavery and racism aren't exactly the same as I think that is the disconnect. 

You are combining the two.

I also think you are being too general about slavery and religion in the Constitution. The founding fathers were all over the place faith wise, but all agreed in some sort of higher power. See Jeffersons Bible as one example. 

 If you have to condemn religion for slavery you must also acknowledge it had a big hand in its defeat here. The anti-slavery movement of the 19th century was mostly driven by Christians and people from the north. 

I get what you are saying, I think, but you are just combining a lot and making broad generalizations.

Ptown and I actually agree here.

Slavery has had zero to do with religion in most parts of the world. Slavery has existed in about every civilization ever, most of which weren't Christian.

Yes, some Christians used parts of the Bible to support slavery, while others properly used the Bible to fight against slavery during the Civil War and the Abolitionist Era before/after it. 

posted by geeblock

Side note. White people telling black people how they haven’t had to experience racism will never not be funny to me. 

Just admit when you say something stupid.

Where did ANYONE say, especially myself, that black people haven't had to experience racism?

I'm sorry Geeblock, but admit you just made that up or quote me or ANYONE on this board that has said that. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Slavery and racism aren't exactly the same as I think that is the disconnect. 

You are combining the two.

I also think you are being too general about slavery and religion in the Constitution. The founding fathers were all over the place faith wise, but all agreed in some sort of higher power. See Jeffersons Bible as one example. 

 If you have to condemn religion for slavery you must also acknowledge it had a big hand in its defeat here. The anti-slavery movement of the 19th century was mostly driven by Christians and people from the north. 

I get what you are saying, I think, but you are just combining a lot and making broad generalizations.

Technically I never mentioned slavery. That was cbsfan and jmog