Jon Diebler

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just_a_swimmer's avatar

just_a_swimmer

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674 posts
Mar 27, 2010 8:41 AM
SQ_Crazies wrote:
just_a_swimmer wrote: They were just out played physically and with the refs letting them play it put OSU at a disadvantage because Tennessee was way more physical then OSU.
Very true. And OSU's depth hurts them in that type of game as well. That's on Matta to get more than 6 guys prepared over the course of the season if you ask me.
exactly
Mar 27, 2010 8:41am
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Mar 27, 2010 8:44 AM
I mean there is really no excuse when you consider that UT lost one of their best players and had 3 other suspended and they could still go that deep. That's a big part of the argument of why anyone is saying that OSU overachieved. To even make the Sweet 16 with literally no depth is a small miracle in itself. I understand any sort of disappointment in the loss, but IMO OSU exceeded expectations and their fan base should be pretty happy with the result of the season. I mean, I know a lot of you probably picked them on your bracket as a homer pick (I've done the same with IU, worked out well for me in 2002 ;)) but how many of you actually thought they'd contend for a title this year?
Mar 27, 2010 8:44am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Mar 27, 2010 9:20 AM
I definitely think they overachieved, but that doesn't mean you have to be satisfied when they lose a game that they could have won. I thought OSU was the bettter team heading into the game, but that didn't mean that OSU was going to win.
Mar 27, 2010 9:20am
M

mward31

Junior Member

21 posts
Mar 27, 2010 9:24 AM
thedynasty1998 wrote:

Laughable that peple are putting Diebler in the same boat as the other two. If I'm Evan Turner, David Lighty or Buford, I'm kicking Diebler's ass after this game. And I really mean that. When you are a team and one guys completely fails to do his job and you lose by 2, you need to make it known that it's not acceptable.
When your hatred of one player is as strong as yours is for Diebler, why don't you root for another team? His teammates should be "kicking Diebler's ass." Really? Should have the Nova players kicked Scottie Reynolds ass (4-26 FG, 1-11 3 PFG in the tourney)? How about Sherron Collins (4-15 FG, 0-6 3PFG, 5 TO in the loss to Norhtern Iowa)? I'm not comparing him to two All-Americans, but I am pointing out that plenty of players end their season with a horrible game.

There is no doubt he had his poor shooting games and it's not like he contributes a ton to the rest of his stat line. Hell, I'm pretty certain you posted his stat line on every one of his poor games on here. But he is a shooting specialist who averaged 13 pts a game, shot 43% from 3's, and 87% at the line. He was a key contributor to many big wins (Florida State, @Illinois, the Big Ten Tourney, 1st two games of the NCAA tourney, etc.).

I don't think it was ideal that Diebler played nearly 40 minutes a game, but his biggest competition off the bench was a similar shooting specialist who is 4 inches shorter and struggled all season with an eye problem (Simmons). Diebler's the 4th best player on our team and if you compare him to the 4th best player on other teams across the country, he stacks up just fine IMO. Despite his flaws, he had a pretty solid season and the Buckeyes had a great year. Let go of the hatred or find a new team.
Mar 27, 2010 9:24am
M

mward31

Junior Member

21 posts
Mar 27, 2010 9:39 AM
SQ_Crazies wrote:
just_a_swimmer wrote: They were just out played physically and with the refs letting them play it put OSU at a disadvantage because Tennessee was way more physical then OSU.
Very true. And OSU's depth hurts them in that type of game as well. That's on Matta to get more than 6 guys prepared over the course of the season if you ask me.
I was pretty critical of Matta last year with how stubborn he was with playing zone, but I can't knock him this year. It would have been nice to have a deep team, but obviously he didn't have faith in his bench. And from the glimpses I saw from Kecman, Z, etc. in garbage time, it doesn't shock me that he lacked faith in them. And maybe he would have had more trust in Simmons if he didn't have the eye issue (5 for his last 30 on 3's leading up to the Tennessee game), but guard/wing depth wasn't the problem with this team IMO. They needed at least 1 more capable big man, preferrably one that was a legitimate scoring threat inside.

Bottom line though, they had a great season. After Turner's first full game back after his injury (double digit loss @ Minnesota), they went 18-3 with their 3 losses by a total of 12 pts to three really strong squads (@WVU, Purdue w/Hummel, and Tennessee). As a Buckeye fan, I don't know how you can complain about the results.
Mar 27, 2010 9:39am
krazie45's avatar

krazie45

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1,055 posts
Mar 27, 2010 9:43 AM
Matta's biggest mistake was leaving in Diebler when Simmons was shooting the lights out. That second half mistake in coaching cost Ohio State the game....
Mar 27, 2010 9:43am
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Mar 27, 2010 11:51 AM
Diebler is what he is, an open spot shooter. Anyone who thinks he is a piece of shit because of yesterday is wrong. Anyone who thinks he is a good all around player is wrong. He didn't have a chance yesterday because no one would attack the rim to draw a crowd inside so he could get an open look. He will never create his own open shot.
Mar 27, 2010 11:51am
thedynasty1998's avatar

thedynasty1998

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6,844 posts
Mar 27, 2010 12:16 PM
Yea that explains his lack of effort on defense.
Mar 27, 2010 12:16pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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16,351 posts
Mar 27, 2010 12:22 PM
I don't understand why Matta didn't pull Diebler and put Simmons in when Diebler was cold and forcing it in the 2nd half.
Mar 27, 2010 12:22pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Mar 27, 2010 12:24 PM
I'm not going to blame this game on Jon Diebler, but he is what he is, he's a 3-point shooter with minimum other skills. If anyone expects him to be out there being our best player, then they are retarded, and you can take that to the bank.
Mar 27, 2010 12:24pm
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

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35,632 posts
Mar 27, 2010 12:24 PM
LJ wrote: I don't understand why Matta didn't pull Diebler and put Simmons in when Diebler was cold and forcing it in the 2nd half.
It was your own fanbase saying all week that "OSU is winning with their 6 players, they don't need a bench, they don't need to change to beat Tennessee, just gotta play their game like they've been doing and they'll win.
Mar 27, 2010 12:24pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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16,351 posts
Mar 27, 2010 12:34 PM
SportsAndLady wrote:
LJ wrote: I don't understand why Matta didn't pull Diebler and put Simmons in when Diebler was cold and forcing it in the 2nd half.
It was your own fanbase saying all week that "OSU is winning with their 6 players, they don't need a bench, they don't need to change to beat Tennessee, just gotta play their game like they've been doing and they'll win.
How does that answer my question? Simmons played very well in the first half and was more productive than Diebler, so it would have made sense to switch them. It was their lack of a post prescence that got them beat, as Tenn. had 50 points in the paint. OSU already rotated 2 guys at Center and there isn't much more they could have done with the personnel they have at that position.
Mar 27, 2010 12:34pm
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SportsAndLady

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35,632 posts
Mar 27, 2010 12:53 PM
LJ wrote:
SportsAndLady wrote:
LJ wrote: I don't understand why Matta didn't pull Diebler and put Simmons in when Diebler was cold and forcing it in the 2nd half.
It was your own fanbase saying all week that "OSU is winning with their 6 players, they don't need a bench, they don't need to change to beat Tennessee, just gotta play their game like they've been doing and they'll win.
How does that answer my question? Simmons played very well in the first half and was more productive than Diebler, so it would have made sense to switch them. It was their lack of a post prescence that got them beat, as Tenn. had 50 points in the paint. OSU already rotated 2 guys at Center and there isn't much more they could have done with the personnel they have at that position.
I wasn't really trying to answer your question, just kinda saying that's been OSU's philosophy the last half of the year, so you had to think that's how Matta would keep it against Tennessee.
Mar 27, 2010 12:53pm
B

bulldog8

Senior Member

497 posts
Mar 27, 2010 1:01 PM
SportsAndLady wrote:
LJ wrote: I don't understand why Matta didn't pull Diebler and put Simmons in when Diebler was cold and forcing it in the 2nd half.
It was your own fanbase saying all week that "OSU is winning with their 6 players, they don't need a bench, they don't need to change to beat Tennessee, just gotta play their game like they've been doing and they'll win.
That's because CentralBucksFan and BigGain have been preaching all season about how all we need is 6 players. I've said from day one that this would be their achilles heel and no one wanted to hear it. They couldn't come to terms that it was possible for them to be wrong and that Diebler isn't all "that good." Similarly, they couldn't ever admit that sometimes Matta's decisions aren't the best. I think a little bench time might have done Diebler some good last night. However, not all of us OSU fans were saying all week that we don't need a bench and that we can make a run with just 6 guys. It was only a matter of time until a more physical team just wore us down, someone got into foul trouble (Lighty), and someone shot like a blind man from beyond the arc (Diebler). What I found most sad about Diebler's performance was his defensive effort and the 4 air-balls he threw up. Quite possibly the worst shot selection and some of the ugliest shots i've seen from him this year.
Mar 27, 2010 1:01pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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16,351 posts
Mar 27, 2010 1:11 PM
bulldog8 wrote:
SportsAndLady wrote:
LJ wrote: I don't understand why Matta didn't pull Diebler and put Simmons in when Diebler was cold and forcing it in the 2nd half.
It was your own fanbase saying all week that "OSU is winning with their 6 players, they don't need a bench, they don't need to change to beat Tennessee, just gotta play their game like they've been doing and they'll win.
That's because CentralBucksFan and BigGain have been preaching all season about how all we need is 6 players. I've said from day one that this would be their achilles heal and no one wanted to hear it. They couldn't come to terms that it was possible for them to be wrong and that Diebler isn't all "that good." Similarly, they couldn't ever admit that sometimes Matta's decisions aren't the best. I think a little bench time might have done Diebler some good last night. However, not all of us OSU fans were saying all week that we don't need a bench and that we can make a run with just 6 guys. It was only a matter of time until a more physical team just wore us down, someone got into foul trouble (Lighty), and someone shot like a blind man from beyond the arc (Diebler). What I found most sad about Diebler's performance was his defensive effort and the 4 air-balls he threw up. Quite possibly the worst shot selection and some of the ugliest shots i've seen from him this year.
Shot selection has always been a problem with this team.
Mar 27, 2010 1:11pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Mar 27, 2010 1:31 PM
Their achilles heel was not being able to rebound and score in the paint, a lack of a quality big.

It wasn't being tired, playing only six guys.

Pearl did what Tubby, Butler and a couple others did against the Bucks...deny Diebler the ball. Not many did it against them this season. That's why he looked so bad, he tried to make the best of what FEW opps he had.
Mar 27, 2010 1:31pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

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18,820 posts
Mar 27, 2010 1:45 PM
LJ wrote: I don't understand why Matta didn't pull Diebler and put Simmons in when Diebler was cold and forcing it in the 2nd half.
If there's one reason I'm pissed off about last night, it's this.

Simmons comes in due to Lighty's first half foul trouble and hits three three-pointers in about 13 minutes. Diebler isn't shooting worth a damn. Back-up guard never leaves bench in second half. Didn't make sense to me. At some point, I'd think a coach would have to think, "Hmm...Diebler's about worthless tonight and this guy on the bench really gave us a spark in the first half...maybe I should put him in instead."

But instead, Matta, for all intents and purposes, closed his eyes, crossed his fingers and was like, "By god, these are 40-minute men and that's that!!! If they're not in foul trouble, they're not coming out!!!".

And, well, the end result is that we'll all have a grand ol' time watching Tennessee playing Michigan State on Sunday.
Mar 27, 2010 1:45pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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16,351 posts
Mar 27, 2010 1:57 PM
Heretic wrote:
LJ wrote: I don't understand why Matta didn't pull Diebler and put Simmons in when Diebler was cold and forcing it in the 2nd half.
If there's one reason I'm pissed off about last night, it's this.

Simmons comes in due to Lighty's first half foul trouble and hits three three-pointers in about 13 minutes. Diebler isn't shooting worth a damn. Back-up guard never leaves bench in second half. Didn't make sense to me. At some point, I'd think a coach would have to think, "Hmm...Diebler's about worthless tonight and this guy on the bench really gave us a spark in the first half...maybe I should put him in instead."

But instead, Matta, for all intents and purposes, closed his eyes, crossed his fingers and was like, "By god, these are 40-minute men and that's that!!! If they're not in foul trouble, they're not coming out!!!".

And, well, the end result is that we'll all have a grand ol' time watching Tennessee playing Michigan State on Sunday.
Yep, my thoughts exactly. Simmons at worst, could have performed just as well as Diebler in the 2nd half. It was stupid to at least not try it.
Mar 27, 2010 1:57pm
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Red_Skin_Pride

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1,226 posts
Mar 27, 2010 2:03 PM
Heretic wrote:
LJ wrote: I don't understand why Matta didn't pull Diebler and put Simmons in when Diebler was cold and forcing it in the 2nd half.
If there's one reason I'm pissed off about last night, it's this.

Simmons comes in due to Lighty's first half foul trouble and hits three three-pointers in about 13 minutes. Diebler isn't shooting worth a damn. Back-up guard never leaves bench in second half. Didn't make sense to me. At some point, I'd think a coach would have to think, "Hmm...Diebler's about worthless tonight and this guy on the bench really gave us a spark in the first half...maybe I should put him in instead."

But instead, Matta, for all intents and purposes, closed his eyes, crossed his fingers and was like, "By god, these are 40-minute men and that's that!!! If they're not in foul trouble, they're not coming out!!!".
Anyone who knows anything about basketball will tell you that if you have a pure shooter, especially a spot up shooter, which both labels fit Deibler to a T, no matter how cold he is you keep shooting. The worst thing Matta could have done last night was pull Deibler in the middle of a cold spell. Because it screws with his confidence. Had Deibler been pulled out of the game last night and OSU would have won, you would have been minus Deibler for the next 3 games. It takes FOREVER to get back in rhythm as a pure shooter if the coach pulls you and doesn't allow you to keep shooting. Some nights players have off nights and are cold, it happens. Everybody was shooting a load in their first two games when he lit it up from outside, and now when he's off everyone wants to blame him. Why not blame what was clearly our biggest problem? Defense? (or lack thereof) I wasn't nearly as disappointed with Deibler's shooting (because he got very few open looks) as I was with the virtual disappearance of our defense in the paint. I'm pretty sure I could score in double fucking digits if all I had to do was run down to the block, catch the ball, and turn around and make a layup. That's likely the easiest game Chism has played in his 12 year career at Tennessee. Lauderdale gets in foul trouble to easily, Madsen would likely struggle to make a MAC roster, and Turner isn't built to play down low. So we might as well have not even put anybody in the lane last night, because it didnt look like we did anyway. As I said on the other thread, OSU was lucky to have kept it as close as they did. It could have been 15-20 or more without Turner trying to save us, yet again, in the second half.
Mar 27, 2010 2:03pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Mar 27, 2010 2:05 PM
Second guessing is easy, but Diebs is just as likely to go off like Simmons did in the first half. You don't pull Lighty because he's the better defender by quite a long shot. A few minutes to see couldn't have hurt but oh well.

Biggest mistake Matta made imo, was down 2 no shot clock, cross mid court and didn't take a time out. Set up Turner for a last shot drive to the rim/foul shoot 2 go to OT.
Mar 27, 2010 2:05pm
T

TheMightyGators

Senior Member

438 posts
Mar 27, 2010 2:19 PM
Red_Skin_Pride wrote:
Heretic wrote:
LJ wrote: I don't understand why Matta didn't pull Diebler and put Simmons in when Diebler was cold and forcing it in the 2nd half.
If there's one reason I'm pissed off about last night, it's this.

Simmons comes in due to Lighty's first half foul trouble and hits three three-pointers in about 13 minutes. Diebler isn't shooting worth a damn. Back-up guard never leaves bench in second half. Didn't make sense to me. At some point, I'd think a coach would have to think, "Hmm...Diebler's about worthless tonight and this guy on the bench really gave us a spark in the first half...maybe I should put him in instead."

But instead, Matta, for all intents and purposes, closed his eyes, crossed his fingers and was like, "By god, these are 40-minute men and that's that!!! If they're not in foul trouble, they're not coming out!!!".
Anyone who knows anything about basketball will tell you that if you have a pure shooter, especially a spot up shooter, which both labels fit Deibler to a T, no matter how cold he is you keep shooting. The worst thing Matta could have done last night was pull Deibler in the middle of a cold spell. Because it screws with his confidence. Had Deibler been pulled out of the game last night and OSU would have won, you would have been minus Deibler for the next 3 games. It takes FOREVER to get back in rhythm as a pure shooter if the coach pulls you and doesn't allow you to keep shooting. Some nights players have off nights and are cold, it happens. Everybody was shooting a load in their first two games when he lit it up from outside, and now when he's off everyone wants to blame him. Why not blame what was clearly our biggest problem? Defense? (or lack thereof) I wasn't nearly as disappointed with Deibler's shooting (because he got very few open looks) as I was with the virtual disappearance of our defense in the paint. I'm pretty sure I could score in double fucking digits if all I had to do was run down to the block, catch the ball, and turn around and make a layup. That's likely the easiest game Chism has played in his 12 year career at Tennessee. Lauderdale gets in foul trouble to easily, Madsen would likely struggle to make a MAC roster, and Turner isn't built to play down low. So we might as well have not even put anybody in the lane last night, because it didnt look like we did anyway. As I said on the other thread, OSU was lucky to have kept it as close as they did. It could have been 15-20 or more without Turner trying to save us, yet again, in the second half.
Diebler took 8 shots in 40 minutes. That's 1 shot every 5 minutes. Certainly there was time to take him out even if it's just to give him a breather. There wouldn't be ONE Ohio State fan on here today complaining had Simmons come in for a few minutes in the 2nd half to try and give the team a spark much like he did in the 1st half with three 3 pointers. At the very least it gives Deibler time to step away, rest and gather himself. A very poor coaching decision in my opinion.
Mar 27, 2010 2:19pm
K

k_boogy

Member

91 posts
Mar 27, 2010 2:26 PM
Did jon have a bad game sure but i love how some people act like he is absolutely terrible. I think most on here understand the hype coming out of high school was because of the system and jon is a spot up 3 shooter. Well last night they were in denial the whole night of jon, just like u guys say jon relies on lighty and turner. Him being on the floor helps them as well because it takes away that help defender, it goes both ways here.

You can compare the stat lines all you want and if u want to get technical yes buford had 15 well he scored 9 before the first tv timeout, as someone already said, on two wide open layups a wide open 3 and jumper. Then for the rest of the game he goes 1-8 from the field, wierd cuz that stat looks similar to jons shooting, but everyone doesnt see that cuz they see the 5-13 shootin when the ones he did make were gimmes. If jon got those looks at the beginnin and knocked them down people would still be on here shitting on him saying exactly what I said about buford.
Mar 27, 2010 2:26pm
Heretic's avatar

Heretic

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18,820 posts
Mar 27, 2010 2:29 PM
Red_Skin_Pride wrote:Anyone who knows anything about basketball will tell you that if you have a pure shooter, especially a spot up shooter, which both labels fit Deibler to a T, no matter how cold he is you keep shooting. The worst thing Matta could have done last night was pull Deibler in the middle of a cold spell. Because it screws with his confidence. Had Deibler been pulled out of the game last night and OSU would have won, you would have been minus Deibler for the next 3 games. It takes FOREVER to get back in rhythm as a pure shooter if the coach pulls you and doesn't allow you to keep shooting. Some nights players have off nights and are cold, it happens. Everybody was shooting a load in their first two games when he lit it up from outside, and now when he's off everyone wants to blame him. Why not blame what was clearly our biggest problem? Defense? (or lack thereof) I wasn't nearly as disappointed with Deibler's shooting (because he got very few open looks) as I was with the virtual disappearance of our defense in the paint. I'm pretty sure I could score in double fucking digits if all I had to do was run down to the block, catch the ball, and turn around and make a layup. That's likely the easiest game Chism has played in his 12 year career at Tennessee. Lauderdale gets in foul trouble to easily, Madsen would likely struggle to make a MAC roster, and Turner isn't built to play down low. So we might as well have not even put anybody in the lane last night, because it didnt look like we did anyway. As I said on the other thread, OSU was lucky to have kept it as close as they did. It could have been 15-20 or more without Turner trying to save us, yet again, in the second half.
Anyone who knows anything about basketball also knows that this stat line (1-8 from field, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 1 steal, 0 blocks, 2 fouls, 3 points) shouldn't compute to 40 minutes of play. As you said, post defense was the primary problem that led to the loss, but getting next-to-no production from a key player couldn't have been beneficial to the team. If getting subbed out for a few minutes while he's not performing is traumatic enough to him that it would ruin him for the rest of the national tournament, dude doesn't have the fortitude to play high-level basketball. Or does every pure, spot-up shooter in college basketball play the entire game regardless of how they're performing? At some point, doesn't a coach have to look for what's best for his team at the moment instead of riding the "he's going to find his range...ANY TIME NOW!" ship straight to the bottom of the ocean?
Mar 27, 2010 2:29pm
V

vball10set

paying it forward

24,795 posts
Mar 27, 2010 2:30 PM
I agree with both Gators and Heretic...what good was Simmons' hot hand if he's sitting on the bench? I like Coach Matta,and I think he's an excellent coach,but IMO his stubborness hurt the Buckeyes tonight.
Mar 27, 2010 2:30pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

Bold faced liar...

6,978 posts
Mar 27, 2010 2:38 PM
I guess the point is if Matta had listened to all us hindsight is 20/20 guys early on in the season, this discussion would have been done and over with 2 weeks ago.

He made the call and it didn't work out. Shockingly it's not the first time and I'm willing to guess it won't be the last. This team under Matta's tuteledge made it to the sweet 16, a fuckin' far cry from what any rational Buckeye fan woulds thunk...lol
Mar 27, 2010 2:38pm