Cleveland Buck wrote: U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 17 Nov 2009 at 08:21:08 PM GMT is:



The estimated population of the United States is 307,304,972
so each citizen's share of this debt is $39,070.65.

Cleveland Buck wrote: Well, how much would oil (and therefore gas) cost if the dollar hadn't lost 40% of its value since 2002? Does our debt have an impact on the value of the dollar? In a recession, with weak demand, should oil be $80/bbl?

Also, I'm not talking about the overnight price jump. I'm talking about oil/gas prices in general.

LJ wrote:

Cleveland Buck wrote: Well, how much would oil (and therefore gas) cost if the dollar hadn't lost 40% of its value since 2002? Does our debt have an impact on the value of the dollar? In a recession, with weak demand, should oil be $80/bbl?

Also, I'm not talking about the overnight price jump. I'm talking about oil/gas prices in general.

I really don't want to go deep into it, but oil is a commodity. Commodities increase in value over time, as they should.

In short answer, yes, oil at $80 is reasonable.

ohiotiger33 wrote: Higher gas prices show the recovering state of our economy.

Cleveland Buck wrote:

LJ wrote:

Cleveland Buck wrote: Well, how much would oil (and therefore gas) cost if the dollar hadn't lost 40% of its value since 2002? Does our debt have an impact on the value of the dollar? In a recession, with weak demand, should oil be $80/bbl?

Also, I'm not talking about the overnight price jump. I'm talking about oil/gas prices in general.

I really don't want to go deep into it, but oil is a commodity. Commodities increase in value over time, as they should.

In short answer, yes, oil at $80 is reasonable.

I understand that you are more knowledgeable than I am about the inner workings of the oil industry, but this statement is just wrong. They don't just go up because that is what they are supposed to do. They go up or down based on the market. At our current demand level, $80 oil is insane. The reason it is $80 is because investors are buying oil as opposed to dollars, and because a dollar buys less oil than it should and used to. Oil was around $25/bbl (or like $30/bbl adjusted for inflation) during the last recession in 2000-01, and that wasn't nearly as severe as this recession.

Cleveland Buck wrote:

ohiotiger33 wrote: Higher gas prices show the recovering state of our economy.

No, higher demand would be a sign of recovery (albeit not a foolproof one). Demand is not driving the price of oil right now.

newarkcatholicfan wrote: I remember a time when they who knew so much said it was all about supply and demand and when that was proven to be a lie they would come up with reason after reason and all has been proved to be a lie.

They charge what they want because they can and our government refuses to cut ties with the oil people it’s nothing but a money thing.

ohiotiger33 wrote: Higher gas prices show the recovering state of our economy.

Cleveland Buck wrote: It's too late to get into all of this, but I do want to continue this when I have a minute. All I know is, oil is priced in dollars and when a dollar is worth less it buys less oil, raising the price. I know that in '08 when oil was $147 or whatever it was, there were stories everywhere about record demand. Then our economy crashed and oil fell to $40 (not coincidentally at the same time the dollar had a big rally because the rest of the world looked as bad as we did). Obviously supply and demand have an effect on oil prices. Obviously the value of the currency does too.

If oil is reasonably priced now, why was it so underpriced during the last recession?

And yes, the value of the dollar on the currency market does dictate if you can buy more or less oil, I didn't dispute that, but that is a market where the supply and demand of the dollar worldwide dictates the exchange rates. We could be running high inflation here, but still have the dollar priced well on the currency exchange. The overall national debt isn't going to change our exchange rates overnight.