Cadillac plans and a sweetheart deal for unions

The controversy over those cushy Cadillac insurance plans just keeps on running. Here are the details: The bill places a tax on high-cost employer-sponsored plans – specifically there’s a 40 percent tax on the value of plans above $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families, starting in 2018. The tax falls on insurers, but would be passed along to policyholders one way or another. First, the thresholds were increased after union leaders lobbied for them, which led Republican leaders to charge that the new tax was a sweetheart deal for labor — and they were increased again for the final bill. But the tax would affect mainly nonunion workers, according to an analysis partly authored by a former Bush adviser. Under even lower thresholds than the bill has now, union workers would have made up only 17 percent of those affected by the tax in 2019, the analysis said.

Of course, liberal groups and union leaders have made misleading claims about this Cadillac tax, saying it would really hit middle-class workers – lots of them. But economists in general back this idea, and the thinking behind it isn’t to raise money by slamming workers with a 40 percent tax. On the contrary, the Joint Committee on Taxation and the Congressional Budget Office believe the tax will boost paychecks. They say the existence of the tax will prompt employers and employees to choose less expensive health plans. In lieu of the higher cost benefits, employers will raise salaries. And that’s how the government really makes its revenue here: on payroll and income taxes on those higher paychecks.

BCSbunk wrote:
Too bad Insurance companies drove medical prices through the roof then denied coverage to the sick. That is the problem you cannot pay for yourself no matter how much you want to if you have a preexisting condition.

This bill is a step in the right direction.

Sage wrote:
I look at health care as a civil right, so yea.

I Wear Pants wrote: From FactCheck.org again:

Cadillac plans and a sweetheart deal for unions

The controversy over those cushy Cadillac insurance plans just keeps on running. Here are the details: The bill places a tax on high-cost employer-sponsored plans – specifically there’s a 40 percent tax on the value of plans above $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families, starting in 2018. The tax falls on insurers, but would be passed along to policyholders one way or another. First, the thresholds were increased after union leaders lobbied for them, which led Republican leaders to charge that the new tax was a sweetheart deal for labor — and they were increased again for the final bill. But the tax would affect mainly nonunion workers, according to an analysis partly authored by a former Bush adviser. Under even lower thresholds than the bill has now, union workers would have made up only 17 percent of those affected by the tax in 2019, the analysis said.

Of course, liberal groups and union leaders have made misleading claims about this Cadillac tax, saying it would really hit middle-class workers – lots of them. But economists in general back this idea, and the thinking behind it isn’t to raise money by slamming workers with a 40 percent tax. On the contrary, the Joint Committee on Taxation and the Congressional Budget Office believe the tax will boost paychecks. They say the existence of the tax will prompt employers and employees to choose less expensive health plans. In lieu of the higher cost benefits, employers will raise salaries. And that’s how the government really makes its revenue here: on payroll and income taxes on those higher paychecks.

I didn't post the quote to refute or support jmog, just saw that he mentioned the Cadillac plan thing and I had remembered reading this earlier.

jmog wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: From FactCheck.org again:

Cadillac plans and a sweetheart deal for unions

The controversy over those cushy Cadillac insurance plans just keeps on running. Here are the details: The bill places a tax on high-cost employer-sponsored plans – specifically there’s a 40 percent tax on the value of plans above $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families, starting in 2018. The tax falls on insurers, but would be passed along to policyholders one way or another. First, the thresholds were increased after union leaders lobbied for them, which led Republican leaders to charge that the new tax was a sweetheart deal for labor — and they were increased again for the final bill. But the tax would affect mainly nonunion workers, according to an analysis partly authored by a former Bush adviser. Under even lower thresholds than the bill has now, union workers would have made up only 17 percent of those affected by the tax in 2019, the analysis said.

Of course, liberal groups and union leaders have made misleading claims about this Cadillac tax, saying it would really hit middle-class workers – lots of them. But economists in general back this idea, and the thinking behind it isn’t to raise money by slamming workers with a 40 percent tax. On the contrary, the Joint Committee on Taxation and the Congressional Budget Office believe the tax will boost paychecks. They say the existence of the tax will prompt employers and employees to choose less expensive health plans. In lieu of the higher cost benefits, employers will raise salaries. And that’s how the government really makes its revenue here: on payroll and income taxes on those higher paychecks.

I didn't post the quote to refute or support jmog, just saw that he mentioned the Cadillac plan thing and I had remembered reading this earlier.

That's the problem, you see, I like my health insurance. The government just made a law that taxes my health insurance to the point that will cause my employer to choose a lesser/cheaper health insurance plan.

So much for "you can keep your health insurance" BS that Obama kept saying huh?

stlouiedipalma wrote: "The sky is falling". Chicken Little at his best.


I hope all of the Republicans who are hanging their hats on this bill for the Midterm elections have sack enough to tell everyone that not one of them was willing to vote for health care reform, that each and every one of them was willing to turn their backs on Americans who have no health insurance and that, given the chance, they would be perfectly happy to return to the status quo, not to mention their support of complete deregulation of business and the financial markets and the "rich get richer" mentality which has permeated Republican policy for years. I doubt they will fess up to any of this, though, as the truth is something which gets in the way of their agenda.

stlouiedipalma wrote: "The sky is falling". Chicken Little at his best.


I hope all of the Republicans who are hanging their hats on this bill for the Midterm elections have sack enough to tell everyone that not one of them was willing to vote for health care reform, that each and every one of them was willing to turn their backs on Americans who have no health insurance and that, given the chance, they would be perfectly happy to return to the status quo, not to mention their support of complete deregulation of business and the financial markets and the "rich get richer" mentality which has permeated Republican policy for years. I doubt they will fess up to any of this, though, as the truth is something which gets in the way of their agenda.

That we as a nation can't afford it has no place in your discussion

tk421 wrote:

stlouiedipalma wrote: "The sky is falling". Chicken Little at his best.


I hope all of the Republicans who are hanging their hats on this bill for the Midterm elections have sack enough to tell everyone that not one of them was willing to vote for health care reform, that each and every one of them was willing to turn their backs on Americans who have no health insurance and that, given the chance, they would be perfectly happy to return to the status quo, not to mention their support of complete deregulation of business and the financial markets and the "rich get richer" mentality which has permeated Republican policy for years. I doubt they will fess up to any of this, though, as the truth is something which gets in the way of their agenda.

*Sigh* Have you even read this thread? The bill is not going to help 30 million Americans get insurance. It is going to create another government welfare program that we can not afford. Are you okay with that?

I love how anyone who doesn't agree with this bill is greedy and doesn't care about America. It's because we care about this country that we think this bill blows. It will do nothing but bring about the end of this country. Burying your head in the sand will not make it better. Typical democratic thinking.

I Wear Pants wrote:

tk421 wrote:

stlouiedipalma wrote: "The sky is falling". Chicken Little at his best.


I hope all of the Republicans who are hanging their hats on this bill for the Midterm elections have sack enough to tell everyone that not one of them was willing to vote for health care reform, that each and every one of them was willing to turn their backs on Americans who have no health insurance and that, given the chance, they would be perfectly happy to return to the status quo, not to mention their support of complete deregulation of business and the financial markets and the "rich get richer" mentality which has permeated Republican policy for years. I doubt they will fess up to any of this, though, as the truth is something which gets in the way of their agenda.

*Sigh* Have you even read this thread? The bill is not going to help 30 million Americans get insurance. It is going to create another government welfare program that we can not afford. Are you okay with that?

I love how anyone who doesn't agree with this bill is greedy and doesn't care about America. It's because we care about this country that we think this bill blows. It will do nothing but bring about the end of this country. Burying your head in the sand will not make it better. Typical democratic thinking.

I love how anyone in support of health care reform has their head buried in the sand and anyone who doesn't is a greedy asshole.

But just fyi, this bill isn't the end of the country/world. Calm down.

Sage wrote: I don't see "everything" as a civil right, but health care is definitely one of them. Sorry, we're all human beings, and living in the richest country in the history of the world, I think we can afford this. Tens of millions of people are one ambulance away from bankruptcy.

Sage wrote:Also, love how you're all fiscal conservatives now. I must have missed that call during the Iraq War drum up and the subsequent tax-cuts.

Sage wrote:We're the richest country in the world guys. I think we can afford it.

Captain Cavalier wrote: The thing that disturbs me the most is that with the apparent majority of Americans AGAINST this bill, our elected officials, who are to REPRESENT the people in a Republic, voted for it. If the will of "We The People" is ignored in Washington, we are in serious trouble.

Captain Cavalier wrote: The thing that disturbs me the most is that with the apparent majority of Americans AGAINST this bill, our elected officials, who are to REPRESENT the people in a Republic, voted for it. If the will of "We The People" is ignored in Washington, we are in serious trouble.

stlouiedipalma wrote: "The sky is falling". Chicken Little at his best.


I hope all of the Republicans who are hanging their hats on this bill for the Midterm elections have sack enough to tell everyone that not one of them was willing to vote for health care reform, that each and every one of them was willing to turn their backs on Americans who have no health insurance and that, given the chance, they would be perfectly happy to return to the status quo, not to mention their support of complete deregulation of business and the financial markets and the "rich get richer" mentality which has permeated Republican policy for years. I doubt they will fess up to any of this, though, as the truth is something which gets in the way of their agenda.

I Wear Pants wrote: What the economists have said would happen with these is that you'll get a lower tier plan but will be paid more in salary. This way if you really want those higher tier benefits you could personally get them.

The problem with that is that you'll be taxed on that extra income (obviously) so it might end up costing you a bit. I don't like that part of this.

gibby08 wrote: Have any of you been listening to every analyst that isnt a complete fucking partisan hack?

They have all said this bill be completely impossible to repeal. So if your party uses that as their main platform for the midterms,they will be just what they are calling us, LIARS!