For the 1st time in 32 years the conference has only ONE team ranked in the AP Top 25.

They will still have 4-8 tournament teams. Down year sure, but it just seems more visible with UNC waaaaay down.

1st time in 32 yrs with just 1 team ranked in the top 25 is more than just UNC being down. I question how good Duke really is too. It wont surprise me to see Tulsa knock them off tomorrow night.

The ACC might get 6 or 7 bids (no shot in hell at 8), but all of them but Duke are going to be 6 seeds or lower. It's definitely not a great conference this year.

Any conference that gets seven teams in the tournament out of 12 is a solid conference. And the ACC, right now, is looking at that many in.

september wrote:It wont surprise me to see Tulsa knock them off tomorrow night.

Still with this? Lol.

Cool.

It wont surprise me to see Tulsa knock them off tomorrow night.

Tulsa has lost 3 straight and 4 of their last 5. They have ZERO chance of beating duke in CIS.

As for the ACC, it is a solid conference, but not exceptional like it has been in the past.

Virginia Tech is a five loss team who is unranked.
Maryland has 7 losses, as does Florida State and Clemson.
None of these teams are ranked.

Georgetown has 7 losses, they are ranked as are Ohio State, Michigan State, and Wisconsin who also have 7 losses.


The point I am belaboring, is that rankings are inefficient in ranking conferences. Teams in the ACC simply haven't passed the eye test against opponents when they are in primetime (Duke, ACC/Big Ten Challenge, Early Season tournaments). Just because they have faltered on a few occasions, that doesn't put them squarely behind other conferences. I would argue the ACC is in the same boat as the Big Ten and the Big Twelve. Lots of teams who beat up on each other in the conference season, and as a result their records have plummeted.

This is the impetus behind many coaches wanting the NCAA tournament field expanded.

Virginia Tech is a five loss team who is unranked.
Maryland has 7 losses, as does Florida State and Clemson.
None of these teams are ranked.

VT's OOC schedule was pathetic. Both Wake Forest and Maryland lost at home to William and Mary, a 19-8 team that has lost 3 straight. Clemson and Florida State should probably be ranked.

The perception may have a lot to do with duke. In high profile games against Wisky and Georgetown duke was handled. In high profile games at CIS, which are usually televised, duke throttles their ACC opponents.Maryland being a prime example.

I would agree that the ACC is in the same boat as the Big Ten and the Big Twelve. The only league I have been remotely impressed with is the Big East.

The ACC has certainly seen better days, but it's still a decent conference this season. As others have said, the ACC will most likely end up with 7 NCAA bids and that's great. The downfall is that the conference has very few teams that are likely to advance deep into the tournament, which others have also alluded to in previous posts.

Duke is probably the only ACC squad that is nearly a lock to advance to the Sweet 16 unless there are some pretty major upsets or favorable draws. Duke's recent tournament struggles don't bode well for the ACC's reputation when it has to rely on the Blue Devils to carry the ACC banner in the post-season. I think they'll get over the hump somewhat this year, but even with the improved inside presence, I think their ceiling may be the Elite 8. If they catch a bad matchup earlier in the tournament, then they could make an earlier exit as well.

Wake, Va Tech, Clemson, Maryland, and FSU are all teams that could be dangerous, but they're not consistent enough to do any real damage in the NCAAs, in my opinion. GT is a talented team, but I'm not a big fan of them either.

The ACC is not as top heavy, but the middle teams havent fallen off at all, and may actually be stroner. But because Wake, UNC and Maryland are down it makes them not as strong.

The B10 is having a better year by most accounts. But they arent even that great. Only going to get 5 teams in and Wisky and Illinois are not very good. MSU, OSU, and Purdue have carried this conference.

september63 wrote: 1st time in 32 yrs with just 1 team ranked in the top 25 is more than just UNC being down. I question how good Duke really is too. It wont surprise me to see Tulsa knock them off tomorrow night.

I'll certainly take some of that action! Duke will win by double digits.

prescott wrote:In high profile games against Wisky and Georgetown duke was handled. In high profile games at CIS, which are usually televised, duke throttles their ACC opponents.Maryland being a prime example.

In other high profile games, Duke pounded current No. 15 Gonzaga by nearly 40 in Madison Square Garden as well as then-No. 12 Connecticut in that same building by nine, a game that was much, much less of a game than the final score indicated. Duke also knocked off Clemson 60-47 in Death Valley when the Tigers were in the top 20. And Duke was trailing Wisconsin in the Kohl Center by three with less than a minute to go. I wouldn't exactly call that "getting handled." The Badgers had won something like 113 of 121 games in Madison when Duke made the trip up there.

Also, I wouldn't call Wake and Maryland "down." In fact, the Terps are having one of their best seasons in years and one could argue that Wake is a better overall team than last year's version, which at one point was ranked No. 1 in the country. Last year's Deacon squad struggled with individuality; this year's squad is a team. And that should make a huge difference come NCAA time. Laley, if you were comparing Maryland this season to Maryland of 2002, then, yes, Maryland is down. But Maryland hasn't been that Maryland since 2002. And Wake hasn't reached a Final Four since '60, so I'm not sure it's that relevant.

The reason the ACC gets no love in the polls, and sort of rightfully so, is half of the league played pathetic OOC schedules. Look at Miami, Virginia, Virginia Tech and N.C. State. Outside of VT, these teams are all pretty bad, but all of them, at one point or another had inflated records because of a horrible OOC schedule. That's why the ACC standings appear to have so many teams who are decent. In reality, Boston College, North Carolina, Virginia, Miami and N.C. State are all below average teams.

Not to take away from Tony Bennett, he's overachieved, and Boston College and N.C. State were replacing a lot and picked at the bottom. However, Miami and North Carolina, 2 teams who were ranked early on, have been flat out embarrassing. I myself have still been guilty of considering these teams "decent", but lets face it, they prove on a weekly basis that they aren't.

The ACC and the SEC are very similar this year. I could argue the SEC is better, because I think the top 7 in the SEC are close with the top 7 in the ACC, and Kentucky is better than Duke. I think with both leagues you have 1 dominant team, 4-6 teams after that who if they make the NCAA Tourney, will get 4 seeds at best and many of them will be in the 7-11 range. With that said, like the SEC, the league is pretty competitive, and the ACC, especially on the road, has far better basketball atmospheres. I think that gives them a slight nod as going on the road to a place like NCSU or Miami is much tougher than going to LSU or Auburn.

I do think the ACC is counting on teams like Florida State, Georgia Tech and Clemson who are perceived to be much better than they really are. As Rec said, Maryland and Virginia Tech don't really have the bad losses, and they have overachieved, and Wake Forest is a very solid 3rd or 4th team, but after that, the league gets more credit than they deserve.

Alas, unless Clemson, Florida State or Georgia Tech finishes horribly, the ACC is a 6-bid league, possibly 7.

And Duke was trailing Wisconsin in the Kohl Center by three with less than a minute to go.

Wisky was up 11 with 4 minutes left in the game. A flurry of 3's in the last 4 minutes made the game winnable for duke. Let's be honest, Dawkins hasn't had that kind of impact on a big game since that night in Madison.That shooting display was aberration for a player who has made (3) 3-point shots in the ACC.

Did duke have a chance to win? Sure they did, but they were handled for the better part of the game even though Singler had a great night shooting the ball.

Maryland and Virginia Tech don't really have the bad losses,

How is losing to William and Mary at home not a bad loss?? Losing on the road to a team like William and Mary might not be so bad, but losing at home is a bad loss.

That's 1 game out of 7. William & Mary is also not a bad team, playing in a good league, one of the top 10-11 leagues in the nation.

W&M has wins over Wake Forest, Richmond, Maryland, and of their 8 losses, 6 are to UConn, Harvard, VCU, Old Dominion twice and Iona.

We can nitpick on my statement, but I stand by it as it was meant to say that MD and VT are "excused" in a sense, and are clearly near the top of the ACC.

Laley23 wrote: The ACC is not as top heavy, but the middle teams havent fallen off at all, and may actually be stroner. But because Wake, UNC and Maryland are down it makes them not as strong.

The B10 is having a better year by most accounts. But they arent even that great. Only going to get 5 teams in and Wisky and Illinois are not very good. MSU, OSU, and Purdue have carried this conference.

I don't agree that Wisky and Illinois aren't very good, especially Wisconsin. They have home wins over Duke, Marquette, Purdue, MSU, and OSU (even though Turner was out) and a win on a neutral court against Maryland. They are certainly not elite, but if the tourney started today, they would be a 4-6 seed in my opinion. Illinois is definitely inconsistent and I would say they are a notch or two below Wisky, but they do have a couple of decent OOC wins (@Clemson, Vandy). I'd say that those two teams stack up pretty well against any other conference's 4th and 5th place teams, with the exception of the Big East.

If Minnesota can pull out a win (big if, I know) against Purdue tonight, I think they have an outside shot of making the tourney. It obviously depends on how they fare the rest of the way, but there is a lot of basketball to be played and they have a couple of decent wins under their belt (Butler, Wisky).

If we take away the conference victories for the top teams in each conference (Big Ten and ACC) the wins are equally unimpressive.

Purdue (Tennessee, WVU)
Duke (Gonzaga, UConn)
Virginia Tech (zero)
Ohio State (zero, no, I don't consider Cal a quality win)
Maryland (zero)
Wisconsin (Maryland, Duke, Marquette (maybe)
Michigan State (Gonzaga)

Together, these conferences haven't done much outside of their own.

The big east
Syracuse (Florida)
Georgetown (Duke, Butler)
Villanova (Maryland, Ole Miss?)

Big 12
Texas (Pitt, Michigan State)
Kansas (Temple, Cornell?)

Kentucky (Louisville, Connecticut)
Tennessee (Kansas, Memphis, Charlotte)
Vanderbilt (St. Mary's, Missouri)
Florida (Florida State, Michigan State)
South Carolina (Richmond, South Florida)
Georgia (Illinois, Georgia Tech, St. Louis)
Mississippi (Kansas State, UTEP)

Maybe the SEC, especially OOC, isn't as weak as some day. Some of their average and even lower tier teams have some nice wins. What does it say when a team like Georgia, who is going to finish last in the East, has 3 OOC wins like that?

swamisez wrote:
Duke (Gonzaga, UConn)
Ohio State (zero, no, I don't consider Cal a quality win)

Both Pomeroy and the RPI have Cal ranked higher than either Gonzaga or UConn.

Heck, Pomeroy has Florida State over both Gonzaga and UConn and Florida State has an identical RPI to UConn.

If you are going to consider both UConn and Gonzaga as quality wins for Duke, you have to consider Cal and Florida State quality wins for OSU.

Here is a link to a site that ranks the teams based by compiling the results of many ratings. I don't know how accurate it is, but it is interesting.

http://mratings.com/cb/compare.htm

RiverRat13 wrote:

swamisez wrote:
Duke (Gonzaga, UConn)
Ohio State (zero, no, I don't consider Cal a quality win)

Both Pomeroy and the RPI have Cal ranked higher than either Gonzaga or UConn.

Heck, Pomeroy has Florida State over both Gonzaga and UConn and Florida State has an identical RPI to UConn.

If you are going to consider both UConn and Gonzaga as quality wins for Duke, you have to consider Cal and Florida State quality wins for OSU.

I dont know. Cal is raking in the RPI because they get the bonus points for all the road wins. But those road wins are against the freaking Pac-10. Cal doesnt even have a shot at the NCAA without the Pac-10 tourney.

mward31 wrote:

I don't agree that Wisky and Illinois aren't very good, especially Wisconsin. They have home wins over Duke, Marquette, Purdue, MSU, and OSU (even though Turner was out) and a win on a neutral court against Maryland. They are certainly not elite, but if the tourney started today, they would be a 4-6 seed in my opinion. Illinois is definitely inconsistent and I would say they are a notch or two below Wisky, but they do have a couple of decent OOC wins (@Clemson, Vandy). I'd say that those two teams stack up pretty well against any other conference's 4th and 5th place teams, with the exception of the Big East.

If Minnesota can pull out a win (big if, I know) against Purdue tonight, I think they have an outside shot of making the tourney. It obviously depends on how they fare the rest of the way, but there is a lot of basketball to be played and they have a couple of decent wins under their belt (Butler, Wisky).

Im probably underestimating the B10 because I am more critical of the teams I watch the most. But Illinois has loses to Georgia, Mizzou, Utah, and Bradley. That isnt very good. I mean, they have talent to win, but I just dont see it. I dont think they are very good.
Wisky is different. They are as good as usual in the regular season. They always have the numbers and the wins. But then the NCAA comes and they play team who actually have athletes and they will lose. It is as much a certainty as the sun rising tomorrow. I just have so little faith in that team every year it incredible. They take a huge step down away from home as it is, then you factor in an athletic team and it almost always spells doom for the Badgers.

When looking at these schedules we are seeing fewer and fewer coaches who are going on the road or to neutral sites and playing road games. It doesn't help them that much in terms of NCAA selection and it seems to only help in terms of an eye test. We could say this is a big change, but if we look back i would be we find over time few marquee teams have traveled much to play games when they weren't ordered to.

Duke stands atop Pomeroy's pyth rankings with the strongest strength of schedule in the country. Along with the Blue Devils' blowout wins over top 15 teams Gonzaga (this is an understatement) and Connecticut, I'd add their 101-59 trashing of Charlotte (a projected NCAA Tournament team from the strong A-10 who has wins AT Louisville and AT Wisconsin) to Duke's list of notable OCC wins. Had Duke won by five, or even 15, it wouldn't be that big of a W. But a 42-point shellacking of an A-10 team that has victories on the road against Louisville and Wisconsin is impressive, IMO.