Ohio Chatter
Ohio Chatter

Forums

All Threads Serious Business Sports Politics Archive Pick 'ems Wordio
Log In Create Account

Big Red turns down ECOL invite

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Football ▸ Big Red turns down ECOL invite
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 3, 2010 2:34 PM
our goals are Regional Championships, not league titles. We already have a league that we care nothing about.
Mar 3, 2010 9:34am
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Mar 3, 2010 7:21 PM
ManO'War wrote: our goals are Regional Championships, not league titles. We already have a league that we care nothing about.
Does anyone care about the OVAC? How do you determine a league champion with 30 teams?
Mar 3, 2010 2:21pm
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 3, 2010 9:12 PM
Most schools do make a big deal about winning a title, but we have been screwed over so many times that it has become a joke to our fans. We have only won the football title a few times in the last decade, but realistically Big Red was the best team for the last decade.
Mar 3, 2010 4:12pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 3, 2010 11:06 PM
I think the icing on the cake came in 2008 when Wheeling Park won the OVAC AAAA championship despite the fact that Big Red went undefeated in the regular season and beat Park 41-7. That proved what a farce the OVAC is.
Mar 3, 2010 6:06pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 3, 2010 11:09 PM
Wooball wrote: I don't get why you think Big Red will not be able to play the big name teams they have been playing in their OOC schedule should they join the ECOL. You would only have 5 locked games per year, leaving you 5 open dates to schedule whoever you want.
It is my understanding that each of the big schools would also have to play a crossover game with one of the smaller schools. That would mean six conference games every year with three of them on the road. Since Big Red always wants seven home games, the only teams we could schedule would be schools like St. Joe's and Buchtel who are willing to drive to Steubenville every year. Unless we agreed to only playing six home games, we could not schedule Massillon or Ursuline or any of the other good schools.
Mar 3, 2010 6:09pm
GoChiefs's avatar

GoChiefs

Resident Maniac

16,754 posts
Mar 3, 2010 11:43 PM
So..the only reason you don't want in the league is b/c you wouldn't have 7 home games a year???
Mar 3, 2010 6:43pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 3, 2010 11:51 PM
GoChiefs wrote: So..the only reason you don't want in the league is b/c you wouldn't have 7 home games a year???
No. The reason I don't want us in the league is because we probably wouldn't play the good OOC teams any more. I would rather play Massillon and Ursuline than Marietta and Cambridge.
Mar 3, 2010 6:51pm
Wooball's avatar

Wooball

Senior Member

1,325 posts
Mar 4, 2010 2:10 AM
FairwoodKing wrote:
GoChiefs wrote: So..the only reason you don't want in the league is b/c you wouldn't have 7 home games a year???
No. The reason I don't want us in the league is because we probably wouldn't play the good OOC teams any more. I would rather play Massillon and Ursuline than Marietta and Cambridge.

It is truly amazing that other teams in leagues are able to schedule quality non-conference opponents, but being in a league that would lock in 5-6 games would prevent Big Red from doing so. I guess I don't understand?

I wonder if one of the stipulations that Big Red reportedly is asking for is not to be forced to play the crossover game? I would imagine most of the small school division schools would not have a problem with that stipulation.
Mar 3, 2010 9:10pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 4, 2010 3:18 AM
Wooball wrote:
FairwoodKing wrote:
GoChiefs wrote: So..the only reason you don't want in the league is b/c you wouldn't have 7 home games a year???
No. The reason I don't want us in the league is because we probably wouldn't play the good OOC teams any more. I would rather play Massillon and Ursuline than Marietta and Cambridge.

It is truly amazing that other teams in leagues are able to schedule quality non-conference opponents, but being in a league that would lock in 5-6 games would prevent Big Red from doing so. I guess I don't understand?

I wonder if one of the stipulations that Big Red reportedly is asking for is not to be forced to play the crossover game? I would imagine most of the small school division schools would not have a problem with that stipulation.
The other ECOL teams don't play seven home games every year. That is the issue. If we join the league, we will have to make a compromise somewhere. We will either have to play four road games every year in order to schedule quality OOC teams, or we will have to drop the good OOC teams and play garbage like Buchtel that are willing to come to Harding Stadium on a regular basis.

I'm speaking from the school's point of view, not my own. I personally don't care how many away games we play because I rarely get to come home to see the games anyway. They could play all ten games away and it would be no skin off my nose. I "attend" every game by sitting in my home office and listening to The River webcasts on my computer. I am trying to say that the school has had a policy for so long about only playing three away games (and sometimes fewer) that I don't know what they are going to do about this. This policy was in effect even back when I was in school in the 1960's. Again, a compromise will have to be made.
Mar 3, 2010 10:18pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 4, 2010 3:24 AM
Wooball wrote:
FairwoodKing wrote:
GoChiefs wrote: So..the only reason you don't want in the league is b/c you wouldn't have 7 home games a year???
No. The reason I don't want us in the league is because we probably wouldn't play the good OOC teams any more. I would rather play Massillon and Ursuline than Marietta and Cambridge.

It is truly amazing that other teams in leagues are able to schedule quality non-conference opponents, but being in a league that would lock in 5-6 games would prevent Big Red from doing so. I guess I don't understand?

I wonder if one of the stipulations that Big Red reportedly is asking for is not to be forced to play the crossover game? I would imagine most of the small school division schools would not have a problem with that stipulation.
It seems to me that these teams don't schedule many good OOC opponents. That's one of the reasons why New Philly went 9-1 last year and didn't make the playoffs. I think the only reason why the ECOL wants Big Red is to upgrade everyone's schedule.
Mar 3, 2010 10:24pm
GoChiefs's avatar

GoChiefs

Resident Maniac

16,754 posts
Mar 4, 2010 3:30 AM
I highly doubt the ECOL is going to let them play 7 games a year just say they join the league. And obviously Big Red feels there is some kind of advantage to joining this league or else it would never happen. I'm sure in the end..it will be good for both Steubenville and the ECOL..otherwise..you know Big Red wouldn't do it.
Mar 3, 2010 10:30pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 4, 2010 3:31 AM
A poster on one of the other threads said that Steubenville Central will definitely join the ECOL in their lower division in 2011. I wonder if this will affect Big Red's decision to join.
Mar 3, 2010 10:31pm
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 4, 2010 3:42 AM
Yea, what teams in these big leagues play quality non conference games?? I know Dover has tried a few, but that's because they know that the ECOL in it's current form is a walk in the park for them.
Mar 3, 2010 10:42pm
F

FairwoodKing

Senior Member

2,504 posts
Mar 4, 2010 4:39 AM
ManO'War wrote: Yea, what teams in these big leagues play quality non conference games?? I know Dover has tried a few, but that's because they know that the ECOL in it's current form is a walk in the park for them.
Dover tried playing Massillon but it didn't work. That's why they copped out on the second year of their contract. Last year Big Red played Woodland Hills, Inkster, and Massillon. I doubt if even one team in the ECOL played even one game against anyone that good.
Mar 3, 2010 11:39pm
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Mar 4, 2010 2:49 PM
Oh my god Steubenville wouldn't be able to have 7 home games? Cry me a river. Welcome to high school football where 6 home games is normal but not 7 or 9.
Mar 4, 2010 9:49am
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

Senior Member

6,912 posts
Mar 4, 2010 2:50 PM
FairwoodKing wrote:
ManO'War wrote: Yea, what teams in these big leagues play quality non conference games?? I know Dover has tried a few, but that's because they know that the ECOL in it's current form is a walk in the park for them.
Dover tried playing Massillon but it didn't work. That's why they copped out on the second year of their contract. Last year Big Red played Woodland Hills, Inkster, and Massillon. I doubt if even one team in the ECOL played even one game against anyone that good.
Dover's OCS year in and year out is full of perennial playoff teams most of the time larger schools.
Mar 4, 2010 9:50am
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 4, 2010 3:26 PM
The only significantly larger teams I remember Dover playing was Massillon. Avon Lake and Uniontown Lake were slightly larger.

But like I said, they had that cushion since they knew they were going to walk through their league.

Do you think Dover will continue to play better OOC teams if Big Red is added to the league? I've seen a few times that Dover has either struggled to make the playoffs or did make it with one or two losses.
Mar 4, 2010 10:26am
Wooball's avatar

Wooball

Senior Member

1,325 posts
Mar 4, 2010 3:34 PM
ManO'War wrote: The only significantly larger teams I remember Dover playing was Massillon. Avon Lake and Uniontown Lake were slightly larger.

But like I said, they had that cushion since they knew they were going to walk through their league.

Do you think Dover will continue to play better OOC teams if Big Red is added to the league? I've seen a few times that Dover has either struggled to make the playoffs or did make it with one or two losses.

I would expect Dover to continue to schedule at least 2-3 quality opponents in the OOC schedule if Big Red is added to the league. Dover has failed to reach the playoffs twice since the 1998 season. Of those 10 appearances (excluding 98 which was the last year they took 4 teams per region) , they have hosted their 1st round game 7 times. A couple of those years they hosted they lost 2 or 3 of their OOC games, so I don't see why if Big Red would join the league Dover would suddenly stop play quality teams in the non-conference.
Mar 4, 2010 10:34am
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 4, 2010 4:42 PM
I see, according to Joe Eitel, that they didn't host in 05, 04, 02, or 00 (didn't make the playoffs in 04 or 00).

My point is that they are not a lock with a loss or two, and with Big Red in there (a likely loss) and Zanesville, which is capable of beating them in any given year, it seems that if they do an 0-3 OOC like they did a few years ago, they are looking at a 5-5 type season.
Mar 4, 2010 11:42am
september63's avatar

september63

Senior Member

5,789 posts
Mar 4, 2010 4:49 PM
Dover will most likely schedule cupcakes OOC now with Big Red in the ECOL. The extra computer points from Steubenville (likely a win) every year will be all they need.
Mar 4, 2010 11:49am
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 4, 2010 5:23 PM
It's not like they are scheduling heavyweights now. They know their level.

Canfield is a solid team, as was Avon Lake, but it's not like they are lining up D1 schools.
Mar 4, 2010 12:23pm
Wooball's avatar

Wooball

Senior Member

1,325 posts
Mar 4, 2010 6:04 PM
ManO'War wrote: I see, according to Joe Eitel, that they didn't host in 05, 04, 02, or 00 (didn't make the playoffs in 04 or 00).

My point is that they are not a lock with a loss or two, and with Big Red in there (a likely loss) and Zanesville, which is capable of beating them in any given year, it seems that if they do an 0-3 OOC like they did a few years ago, they are looking at a 5-5 type season.

This is exactly what i stated in my post, but thanks for putting the years out there. Dover missed in 2000 going 8-2 and in 04 they went 7-3. The following year they went 7-3 and went on the road to Licking Valley. Then in 2007 Dover went 7-3 and hosted a first round game. So it's not like they are going to miss the playoffs if they go 9-1 or 8-2. Odds are they also will make it winning 7, with a chance winning 6 games with the right schedule. Would a 5-5 season be more likely with Big Red and Zanesville in the league? Absolutely, but I wouldn't expect to see that happen very often.
Mar 4, 2010 1:04pm
ManO'War's avatar

ManO'War

Senior Member

1,420 posts
Mar 4, 2010 6:18 PM
Well, if you miss going 7-3 or better, then something is wrong. I guess this may be the reason that the ECOL wants to put the other teams in a different football league sub division.
Mar 4, 2010 1:18pm
R

rock_knutne

Mar 4, 2010 6:26 PM
FairwoodKing wrote: A poster on one of the other threads said that Steubenville Central will definitely join the ECOL in their lower division in 2011. I wonder if this will affect Big Red's decision to join.
Which thread? I really don't want CCHS to join this league, bad move IMO.

Why would CCHS joining this league affect Big Red's decision to join? It's not like they're going to play each other.
Mar 4, 2010 1:26pm
Wooball's avatar

Wooball

Senior Member

1,325 posts
Mar 4, 2010 6:50 PM
ManO'War wrote: Well, if you miss going 7-3 or better, then something is wrong. I guess this may be the reason that the ECOL wants to put the other teams in a different football league sub division.

I would agree with that, and since 2004 Dover has mad an effort to improve their OOC schedule so that doesn't happen. New Phila on the other hand has not. Just by adding Zanesville and possibly Big Red isn't going to cause Dover to completely change their OOC scheduling. They might add in 1 "cupcake" into that mix. We all can't play powers like Wheeling Park, Wheeling Central, Indian Creek, East Liverpool, Morgantown, or Brooke every week.

The small and large division should help all schools involved with the league, with the possible exception of Coshocton, who enjoyed success while playing the larger schools in the ECOL. It will now be up to them to schedule comparable schools in their OOC slate.
Mar 4, 2010 1:50pm