swamisez wrote:
That being said, if Carolina puts it all together for a victory in Cameron I am gonna burn Durham to the ground.

LOL. That sounds like something I would say. Don't worry, swami. Things will be just fine.

All ribbing aside for a minute, this is really stunning. I NEVER would have dreamed Carolina to play this poorly, especially after the big early season victories. If someone would have told me they wouldn't be in the NCAAs, I would've laughed. Not one person here saw this coming Not one.

As much as I'm enjoying it all, it's definitely bad for the ACC.

The thing I'm most worried about is that John Henson is really turning it on. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that he's playing well, but if he leaves for the NBA, I'm gonna croak.

After hearing some new info about Davis, I already had to admit that rec was probably right about him leaving. If he ends up being right about Henson too, I'll never be able to live it down.

Honestly though, I think Henson knows that he's not ready for the league and will be back no matter what. He and Zeller (if he stays healthy) will be huge for Carolina next year on a team that will be pretty thin, physically and depth-wise, in the frontcourt. However, the perimeter shooting that Carolina sorely misses, as shown by the numbers from tonight's game, should arrive with Barnes and Bullock when they step onto campus. At least that's what I hope. It's tough sometimes relying on freshmen though. This season has made that fact blatantly obvious in Chapel Hill.

reclegend22 wrote: As much as I'm enjoying it all, it's definitely bad for the ACC.

Similar to Michigan and the Big 10.

But, Carolina will be back; no one knows about Michigan.

My question for UNC fans is whether or not Kendall Marshall is good enough to fix the PG problems next year?

For as great as Roy is, his past accomplishments with teams who lacked either a very talented PG or a 2-year starter+ at PG isn't very good.

1993, Adonis Jordan
1997, Jacque Vaughn
2002, Kirk Hinrich
2003, Kirk Hinrich
2005, Raymond Felton
2008, Ty Lawson
2009, Ty Lawson

All of these guys were either future NBA players and/or had 2 years or more starting under their belt. I'd say a great PG is almost a must for any team to go very far, and I still wonder if UNC has that. They have talent, but are any of them to this level?

With Zeller, Henson and the Wear twins the Heels will be fine inside. They can make up for the loss of Thompson and likely Davis, and you have to figure another year of Strickland combined with Barnes and Bullock will more than make up for the losses of Ginyard and Graves.

What is the feeling on this? Do UNC fans believe PG won't be an issue next year?

Azu,

Graves will be back next season unless he decides to leave to pursue other options. He has a year of eligibility left. Here's the lineup next season if Davis leaves early.

PG - Drew II/Marshall
SG - Strickland/Bullock/McDonald
SF - Barnes/Graves/Watts
PF - Henson/D. Wear
C - Zeller/T. Wear

Drew II is wildly inconsistent at this point. Some games he looks lost, and other times he looks like he's starting to show major progress. As a junior next year with one year of starting time under his belt, I think he could be much better. He's not what Lawson and Felton were, and he never will be, but I feel like he can be a good PG. He's averaging 6 APG this year on a team that doesn't finish around the rim and can't shoot, which is kind of impressive actually. However, he's not where he needs to be yet. He's not the floor general that a championship caliber team needs.

Marshall isn't an explosive PG either, but he takes care of the ball, and is an amazing distributor. He had a great summer when surrounded with elite level talent and won several MVP awards at some big-time events. From what I have heard, he has struggled somewhat during his senior season, but his team just isn't very good. I really doubt if he'll come in next year and start, but I think he'll get plenty of playing time. If Drew II continues to turn the ball over and doesn't do a better job of leading, Marshall may take his spot, but I would say that Kendall will definitely be the #2 PG.

Overall, the PG position will be very important for Carolina next year. They'll have the shooting (Barnes, Bullock, Graves, and even Strickland if he continues to improve), and they'll have a decent inside game with the big men you mentioned. They may struggle again with getting pushed around on the block, but if Zeller and Henson add some weight, they'll probably be fine. If the team gets solid PG play, they'll be very good. If they don't, then they'll be average, but I can't imagine them being anything close to this year's squad.

This UNC fan will always be here. Whether they are 8-20, fighting for an NCAA berth, winning National titles or struggling to find themselves, I'll ALWAYS be here..

With that out of the way, this team doesn't have it. Poor ball handling, no #1 scoring threat that can take a game over and get those buckets, and the team defense is HORRIBLE..

Also, my least favorite Dukies are in a 3 way tie.. Shane "Mysterious 'Stache" Battier, Carlos "My head shriveled" Boozer, and Jay "I love motorcycles" Williams..

Boozer gets twice the hate from me since I'm a huge Cavs fan..

Marshall will help fix the PG problem to the extent that they will be a tournament team. But I don't think he and Drew will be enough for them to be a title contender next season.

It's going to be weird not seeing UNC in the big dance this season.

Kendall Marshall is a very different PG than such past speed demons as Felton & Lawson. However, all accounts seem to point to Marshall being an elite game manager, and one that really excels at distributing the basketball to the talent around him. If he is able to limit the turnovers, he'll definitely have lots of options dishing to the likes of Barnes, Bullock, Strickland, Henson, etc.

Just because Marshall has a different skill set does not mean he's inferior. Check out his AAU stats for a better perspective.

I'd like to apologize for not starting an in-game thread for the Carolina-BC game today. You know how Carolina fans are.

Anyway, the Heels lost 71-67 in Chestnut Hill to fall to 14-13, 3-9 in the ACC.

Carolina controlled most of the first and led by 8 after about the 15 minute mark. Then they decided that 15 minutes of decent basketball was enough for the first half and proceeded to blow that lead. BC led 37-36 at the half. After trading buckets to start the second half, Carolina went on an 8-0 run to lead 46-39. Once again, after opening up a decent lead, they decided that they were done playing for a while. BC went on a 24-7 run to lead 63-53 with just a few minutes remaining. Carolina was able to cut the lead to 67-65 with about a minute to play, but senior Deon Thompson, who had played well all day, put the finishing touches on yet another inconsistent Tar Heel performance. Deon hedged on a BC pick and roll, but got caught out of position and caused a defensive breakdown that led to an easy runner in the lane for BC. He then followed that up with a missed five-footer at the other end and BC held on for a 71-67 win.

As usual, there were bright spots for Carolina among the other junk that barely resembles basketball, especially John Henson once again with 11 points and 7 rebounds. Thompson led the Heels with 17 points and 9 rebounds. Marcus Ginyard added 10 points and Tyler Zeller in his first game back from injury scored 9 points in 16 minutes of action.

Carolina will now need to go 2-2 in its final four games to likely even have a chance at the NIT. Also, they will need two wins in those last four games to reach 2000 wins. If Kansas wins out during the regular season and Carolina doesn't get at least two wins, the Jayhawks will beat them to the 2,000 win plateau. This after Carolina had a 14 game lead on them heading into the season. Just an awful season for Carolina that keeps getting worse.

We actually -- well two of us -- were discussing this game in another thread. We -- I -- came to the conclusion that the O'Reilly Auto Part College Basketball Experience (CBE) is still something to shoot for.



I hope ol' Roy can make it to March. Someone get the poor man a pepsi. Geez. I kid, even though I almost feel guilty doing so at this point. I'm not sure what that says about the state of where things currently are, but kind of weird nonetheless.

Next year will be here soon enough, guys. You're Carolina, after all.

Rec,

It's well known that Ole Roy drinks Coke & RC Cola, not Pepsi

reclegend22 wrote:

Next year will be here soon enough, guys. You're Carolina, after all.

Definitely NOT soon enough. I won't have much to root for in March, but I can always cheer hard for an early exit for the Dukies. I probably won't have to root too hard though.

iron,

I don't know, we might have a real ball team this spring. We're looking tough.

But, with how hard I've been grilling you guys all year, you cheer and boo and yell 'Rat' till your heart's content. I won't blame you. But you better cheer real hard, because I might not hear you over that could-be losing season over in CH

slide,

Yes, I know All too well, unfortunately. He just needs a refreshment. At this rate, Surge would do.

In all honesty, Duke does look pretty good. They're a good bit better inside this season and that has been killing them the last few years. If they get a good draw, they could definitely make a nice run in the NCAAs. I'm still not sold on them being a Final Four team, but I would think they'll probably advance past the Sweet 16. Obviously I hope they get bounced in the first or second round though. It's always nice to see the Rat suffer, and after the frustration of this season, that's probably the only thing that would make me feel a little better.

By the way, I think a losing season is almost guaranteed for Carolina. FSU and Miami are winnable games, I suppose, but I wouldn't count on it. Wake lost to State today, but I doubt the Heels will come within 15 points of the Deacons in Winston-Salem. And, of course, Carolina won't win in what used to be their home away from home this season. 1-3 or 0-4 is very possible the rest of the way.

Rumors are running rampant in Chapel Hill, and they probably are just rumors that are whirling around because of all the frustration. However, I'm not really feeling too good about everything. I was thinking that next season would bring a nice turn around, but I just don't know at this point. Early entrants and potential transfers could really cause a stir in Chapel Hill.

After traveling over to Inside Carolina to witness those rumors you were referencing, I just realized that I'm a moron. I've been making fun of UNC all day saying they could always get in the CBE, when in fact it's called the CBI (a fan over there wrote something about, "Don't lose hope, we still got the CBI." The CBE is a preseason tournament. My CBE clip art on the other thread kind of doesn't have the same power as I once thought. Lol. (I realize that Carolina fans might not find all this CBE/CBI mix-up talk overly hilarious. )

As for Carolina next season, it will be very interesting to see how Roy bounces back -- and, more importantly, how he bounces his boys back. I won't say anything more. I honestly have not the slightest idea of what to expect. This season was surprise enough. As I've said before, I really thought this team would turn into a Final Four contender by late season (after seeing the Heels against OSU and MSU). Honestly, though, I think Roy's campaign this season is proving why K is the better coach. I know none of you here will agree with that assessment, but K wouldn't suffer through a losing season, not this far into his coaching tenure at Duke. It just wouldn't happen. Roy has some ground to make up next season.

Of course he wouldn't Rec, if he did, he'd stop coaching for the year due to injuries..

I'm glad Roy hasn't given up on his guys.

I think I'll take the 2 titles in 4 years as a better resume' in terms of who is the better coach..

Duke hasn't been Duke for some time. I haven't looked at them as a "legit" title contender in almost 5 or 6 seasons..

Roy and UNC are fine. This is obviously a tough season, but it could happen to any program who loses what UNC lost.

Again, it was just a few short years ago when Duke went 22-10 and 8-8.. Not as bad as UNC this year obviously, but wasn't that a disappointment? How about Duke vs the top 25 that year? 1-5? OUCH!!

I mean seriously, I could take trash from KU fans or even fans of a team who have made it past the sweet 16 in recent memory, but Duke fans?

Before this season, UNC had won something like 7 of the last 9 against Duke and you guys were talking like the world had ended.. Now, UNC has ONE bad season under Roy, a guy who's won 2 titles in his short stint at UNC and has NEVER missed the tourny outside of his first year at KU, and now suddenly, he's not a great coach and UNC may have fallen off the map?

lol. It only takes one recruiting class (like the one we have next season) to turn a team around (i.e Kentucky)...

I'd rather make a Final Four every other year and miss the NCAA's in the "off-year" than go into every tournament without a legit Final Four team. Believe me, I watched Tubby Smith coach 9 teams after winning a national title, and only 3 of those really had a legit chance to win a national title (2003, 2004 and 2005). From 1999 to 2002, he lived off the 1998 title without a serious, serious contender, and from 2006-2007 he started a downhill spiral that saw UK get throttled by real contenders in the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament (Connecticut in 2006 and Kansas in 2007).

The years without a chance are bad, and that's what Duke has had recently. They simply haven't had the ability to win a title. Good teams, not embarrassing like UNC this year, but not great.

Lol it's been a mere three seasons since Duke had a true national title contender. Just as recently as '06, the Blue Devils had a club with the capabilities of cutting down April's nets. And from '07 to '09, during Duke's worst stretch in over a decade-and-a-half, Duke went 80-24, reached a Sweet 16, reached the tournament every year and won an ACC title. Now they once again have a club ready to make a charge at the Wooden trophy. Will they win it all? Maybe not. But they have a club that very well could. Anyone who thinks this is a team that has no chance to reach the Final Four is being foolish, and once you get to the Final Four, anything can happen. For the first time in years, Duke has an inside presence that is providing strong interior defense, second chance points opportunities and relief for Duke's perimeter game. The tools are in place and Duke Basketball is back, if they ever left. Incomers such as Kyrie Irving and Seth Curry are only going to keep things going.

And Carolina will NOT have a UK-like turnaround next season. Roy has a ton of work to do, most reasonable Carolina fans know this. The loss of Davis and likely Henson (as well as the senior Thompson) and an unproven point guard (Marshall will be an improvement more than likely, but most talent experts don't think it will be by much) will keep things interesting once again in Chapel Hill. Reggie and Harrison are going to be great, but Carolina will need more than a wing game to take back the ACC.

As for the Coach K bailing on this team shit, drop it. This isn't the case and you know it. I'm not going over this again, though, because it's not worth arguing for the millionth time. He was seriously ill and needed hospitalization. Doctors said his coming back was absolutely non-negotiable, and K's wife threatened to leave if he did. That's how deteriorated his health had become. Again, K graduated from Army with high honors. A man of his character wouldn't bail on his team for a few meaningless losses. Your claims are foolish at best.

BTW, during Duke's horrid run in 2006-07, the Blue Devils started the season off 22-7. That is a far cry from Carolina's embarrassing 14-13 debacle. Once again, a Coach K team wouldn't ever fall into the mess Carolina is in this season, not likely even making the NIT and bumming a spot into the CBI. Congratulations.

Rec, I am usually not a Duke hater and I agree with your points for the most part. Then again, Tubby's first drought was 4 years, and his second one was 2 years, and it was enough for him to bail to Minnesota (everyone knew he wasn't going to last much longer anyway). These were your typical 22-25 win teams, which to most schools sounds great, but we all know that in today's era with pre-season tournies, teams can play upwards of 40 games, so 22-25 wins is great, but that usually means 8-10+ losses. Duke has had a dry patch, and this is obviously exaggerated because prior to 2007, they were #1 seeds in back to back years and loss to lower seeds, especially in 2006 when their highly-publicized squad who was #1 for a lot of the season got exposed by LSU.

I will also agree that there is no way around the 14-13 season for Roy. I don't care what intangibles are missing, they have 7 McDonald's All-Americans (which we can debate how many are undeserving but got the nod because their commit school said UNC) and the coach who many will say is the best in the business. As you said, things aren't going to turn around in a season either, the Heels will face different problems next year as they aren't necessarily returning every single player.

A friend of mine is good friends with Taylor Durham, Woody's son, and she quoted Woody as saying that Roy is "almost catatonic". He refuses to talk about what is going on, feels betrayed by the fan base, and is in dire need of some R&R.

I stand by my belief that it might be best for Roy to take the rest of the year off, and recoup. Sadly if he does, Henson doesn't stay and who knows what else might happen.

I know that this season has been hard on the players and staff, and especially Roy Williams. He is obviously bothered by what has happened and I would expect no less. He's really beating himself up about all the losses, but personally, I think Roy needs to be a little tougher mentally. Yeah, that may be easy for me to say because I don't have much invested in the Carolina program on a personal level. However, Roy's defeated attitude is projecting onto his players and it's causing even more confidence problems. The "feel sorry for me" attitude that Roy has been exhibiting lately just isn't what his players need to hear. He's upset and apparently that's how he expresses that emotion, but it's my opinion that he needs to show some more toughness in front of his kids and start being a little more positive, even if there isn't much to be positive about.

After the season is over, just as swami said, Roy needs to get away from things for a while. He needs to relax, play some golf, and get rejuvenated because the Carolina program needs him at 100% going into next season. After some R&R, he needs to come back in, get the kids working hard and get this program back to where it belongs...in the hunt for the ACC Title and a National Championship. Not 14-13 and having to fight for a stinkin NIT bid.

All that aside, Carolina got even more bad news today, which should have Roy feeling even worse. David Wear is unlikely to play on Wednesday against FSU due to a hip injury. Travis Wear is still questionable with an ankle injury, and of course, Ed Davis is out. At least Zeller is back in the lineup. Carolina absolutely has to win against FSU. No excuses. Show some pride, show some heart, and get it done in the Dean Dome.

Roy is saying David's injury is a possible torn labrum, which would sit him for the rest of the year.

wildcats20 wrote: Roy is saying David's injury is a possible torn labrum, which would sit him for the rest of the year.

Of course. This season is just a nightmare.

I'll still be watching until the end though. Hope the next few weeks lead to some positive things, creating some type of momentum for the off-season.