Cleveland Buck
Posts: 5,126
Feb 12, 2010 11:42am
I wouldn't want Murphy if they gave him to us for free. Rip would be interesting, but I don't like that too much either. His shooting has gone down the past two seasons (and is awful this season).
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 11:46am
How many times have you watched Murphy?Cleveland Buck wrote: I wouldn't want Murphy if they gave him to us for free. Rip would be interesting, but I don't like that too much either. His shooting has gone down the past two seasons (and is awful this season).
He is a quicker, younger version of Z. He has put up better numbers against the top NBA teams than Jamison.
If Cleveland gets Murphy and Rip for expirings then yes sign me up if Gilbert is willing pay.
jpake1
Posts: 2,389
Feb 12, 2010 11:49am
Who would the Cavs probably gives up to get both of those players? Trying to figure out what their starting lineup and depth would look like. That would be a pretty damn good team. One that would probably be holding up some bling.
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 11:53am
What I have been hearing is Murphy for Z with buyout. S/T Wally for Rip.jpake1 wrote: Who would the Cavs probably gives up to get both of those players? Trying to figure out what their starting lineup and depth would look like. That would be a pretty damn good team. One that would probably be holding up some bling.
That means one player must leave the roster.
jpake1
Posts: 2,389
Feb 12, 2010 11:59am
That would be a very stacked team. One that would be very fresh for the playoffs, and stay fresh the whole playoffs. I imagine most teams will be scared to make trades like that with the Cavs. Nobody wants to help create a dynasty in their conference. But money talkes, and if nobody else is willing to help, you have to do what you have to do.
j_crazy
Posts: 8,372
Feb 12, 2010 12:04pm
Darnell Jackson gets my vote.devil1197 wrote:What I have been hearing is Murphy for Z with buyout. S/T Wally for Rip.jpake1 wrote: Who would the Cavs probably gives up to get both of those players? Trying to figure out what their starting lineup and depth would look like. That would be a pretty damn good team. One that would probably be holding up some bling.
That means one player must leave the roster.
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 12:26pm
WAS says there is no truth to the BOS/WAS rumor.
Lovejoy1984
Posts: 5,277
Feb 12, 2010 12:52pm
What about that player from the Lake Erie Team?j_crazy wrote:Darnell Jackson gets my vote.devil1197 wrote:What I have been hearing is Murphy for Z with buyout. S/T Wally for Rip.jpake1 wrote: Who would the Cavs probably gives up to get both of those players? Trying to figure out what their starting lineup and depth would look like. That would be a pretty damn good team. One that would probably be holding up some bling.
That means one player must leave the roster.
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
Feb 12, 2010 1:05pm
Darnell Jackson will have to go. Cedric Jackson is basically a place holder while Mo is out, once Mo comes back, both Jackson's will be gone. I should add that Darnell will get to hang around for awhile, until we can sign Z back.HighRoller74 wrote:What about that player from the Lake Erie Team?j_crazy wrote:Darnell Jackson gets my vote.devil1197 wrote:What I have been hearing is Murphy for Z with buyout. S/T Wally for Rip.jpake1 wrote: Who would the Cavs probably gives up to get both of those players? Trying to figure out what their starting lineup and depth would look like. That would be a pretty damn good team. One that would probably be holding up some bling.
That means one player must leave the roster.
osu45804
Posts: 6,188
Feb 12, 2010 2:20pm
Take it for what it's worth.... As of right now every trade is a rumor.... I'm just hoping this goes through! lol
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 2:49pm
Not sure if that guy has any legit credibility or if he is just saying what has been said 4 hours before him by one of the least credible sports guys in the business in Adrian W.osu45804 wrote:
Take it for what it's worth.... As of right now every trade is a rumor.... I'm just hoping this goes through! lol
The Washington Beat has denied the trade and Ric Bucher said the Celtics won't even do it because they would be taking on too much money.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Feb 12, 2010 2:58pm
What is with all the love for Jamison about? I mean, really. The guy is a bad shooter overall and a horrible 3baller. He boards OK, but averages less rebounds per minute than Verajou, Z or Shaq.
First Iguodala, now Jamison.
The Cavs best trade will be no trade at all. When are certain posters here gonna finally get it through their numbskulls that this team is the best in professional basketball? Leave it ALONE. As far as Z goes, deal with that after LBJ's situation is resolved at the end of the season.
First Iguodala, now Jamison.
The Cavs best trade will be no trade at all. When are certain posters here gonna finally get it through their numbskulls that this team is the best in professional basketball? Leave it ALONE. As far as Z goes, deal with that after LBJ's situation is resolved at the end of the season.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Feb 12, 2010 3:02pm
You actually think adding Jamison and Butler and subtracting Ray Ray will change the fundamental problems with your team?osu45804 wrote:
Take it for what it's worth.... As of right now every trade is a rumor.... I'm just hoping this goes through! lol
Butler is good, but not any better than Allen, even though Allen has lost a step. As for Jamison....can you say "Larry Hughes"?
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 3:07pm
Foot, give it up. We all know you are so caught up in regular season accomplishments.
With the pieces Cleveland has, there is nothing wrong in make a team better without giving up anything.
Jamison shoots 45% from the field and 35% from the 3 point line as a PF. He is averaging 21 and 9 this season. In fact his averages this season are better than his career averages. His shooting in both FG and 3 point hasn't dipped drastically at all.
JJ had a great game last night but the Cleveland FO knows that they won't be able to rely on him come playoff time.
Just imagine having Jamison paired up with Shaq. Teams like the Magic won't be able to double Shaq with Lewis/Howard leaving Jamison to hit the 15 footers. Last night was the first time JJ hit a jumper in weeks (after Mo and Shaq basically told him to shoot last night).
This will either force the Magic to 1) have Howard guard Shaq one on one which equals immediate foul trouble 2) double Shaq and let Jamison, who is great in the playoffs, hit open jumper after open jumper. Hmmmm, does that sound familiar? Lewis getting open shot after having to double Howard last season. Then you pair Z/AV together with Z on the perimeter drawing Howard out and AV cutting/slashing to the hoop.
Why not flip the tables on the Magic by getting a 4 who can shoot WITHOUT giving up JJ in a trade. I can understand your great fasination with keeping this team together, but Ferry/Gilbert/Brown know that JJ is not playoff ready or otherwise he would be playing a lot more in crunch time situations without foul problems. If they get can get a veteran PF or even a SG to shore up any future problems without giving up main parts, you'd be an idiot not to do it.
With the pieces Cleveland has, there is nothing wrong in make a team better without giving up anything.
Jamison shoots 45% from the field and 35% from the 3 point line as a PF. He is averaging 21 and 9 this season. In fact his averages this season are better than his career averages. His shooting in both FG and 3 point hasn't dipped drastically at all.
JJ had a great game last night but the Cleveland FO knows that they won't be able to rely on him come playoff time.
Just imagine having Jamison paired up with Shaq. Teams like the Magic won't be able to double Shaq with Lewis/Howard leaving Jamison to hit the 15 footers. Last night was the first time JJ hit a jumper in weeks (after Mo and Shaq basically told him to shoot last night).
This will either force the Magic to 1) have Howard guard Shaq one on one which equals immediate foul trouble 2) double Shaq and let Jamison, who is great in the playoffs, hit open jumper after open jumper. Hmmmm, does that sound familiar? Lewis getting open shot after having to double Howard last season. Then you pair Z/AV together with Z on the perimeter drawing Howard out and AV cutting/slashing to the hoop.
Why not flip the tables on the Magic by getting a 4 who can shoot WITHOUT giving up JJ in a trade. I can understand your great fasination with keeping this team together, but Ferry/Gilbert/Brown know that JJ is not playoff ready or otherwise he would be playing a lot more in crunch time situations without foul problems. If they get can get a veteran PF or even a SG to shore up any future problems without giving up main parts, you'd be an idiot not to do it.
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 3:26pm
I'd really like to know the negatives of trading Z (buyout), S/T Wally, Picks, or Cash?
1) Z doesn't get bought out. Ferry isn't stupid he'll know for sure, yes its agains the rules but these deals have happened before they will happen again.
2) Chemistry. Every player that has come to Cleveland in the past two years has fit in perfectly with these guys chemistry wise. I have no doubts that these veteran players, hungry for a title, will mesh with everyone.
Other than that name the negatives.
1) Z doesn't get bought out. Ferry isn't stupid he'll know for sure, yes its agains the rules but these deals have happened before they will happen again.
2) Chemistry. Every player that has come to Cleveland in the past two years has fit in perfectly with these guys chemistry wise. I have no doubts that these veteran players, hungry for a title, will mesh with everyone.
Other than that name the negatives.
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 3:42pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=4909238
DALLAS -- Long-running trade talks between the Dallas Mavericks and Washington Wizards have taken a fresh twist now that the teams have discussed the prospect of packaging center Brendan Haywood to Dallas in the same deal with Wizards forward Caron Butler, according to sources close to the discussions.
Talks between the teams had stalled in the past week, partly because of Washington's insistence that the Mavericks take guard DeShawn Stevenson in any Butler deal, but the potential for acquiring two front-line players -- since Butler and Haywood would immediately become key rotation players for the Mavs -- has renewed Dallas' interest.
Sources said that such a deal, which is still in the discussion phase, would send Josh Howard and a handful of cap-friendly contracts to the Wizards and holds appeal for both sides.
It would enable Washington to truly launch its rebuilding efforts, realize significant financial relief in the midst of a disastrous season and achieve those aims without giving up forward Antawn Jamison, which is the Wizards' preference.
The possible acquisitions of Butler and Haywood, meanwhile, would be a welcome spark for the sputtering Mavericks, with Butler moving into the spot vacated by the out-of-favor Howard and Haywood arriving as another rim-protecting defensive anchor in the wake of a knee injury that has compromised the effectiveness of Mavs center Erick Dampier.
Acquiring Haywood and having the chance to re-sign him this summer would likely fill the void Dallas thought it filled last summer, when the Mavs signed Orlando center Marcin Gortat to a lucrative offer sheet, only for the Magic to unexpectedly match the offer to the restricted free agent.
Yet there are undeniable impediments to a Washington-Dallas deal. The Wizards, according to sources, would still rather make the smaller deal with Dallas reported by ESPN.com on Feb. 5: Butler and Stevenson for Howard and a small expiring contract such as James Singleton or Quinton Ross.
One source said that the Wizards, who continue to talk trades with the Houston Rockets, Portland Trail Blazers and other teams, are reluctant to part with Haywood as the deal is currently structured.
In the latest proposals exchanged by the teams, Dallas would send Howard (whose $11.8 million salary next season is a team option) to Washington and also surrender backup center Drew Gooden, along with multiple low-salaried players such as Tim Thomas, Singleton and Ross.
Washington would inevitably want prized Mavericks rookie Rodrigue Beaubois added to the deal, but Mavs owner Mark Cuban said earlier this week that his young point guard is "pretty much untouchable" as Thursday's trade deadline approaches. It is not known whether Washington would accept Mavericks guard J.J. Barea instead.
Speaking to a group of reporters Thursday, Cuban said: "We kind of know the parameters [under] which we would make a deal. If somebody meets our parameters, we'll pull the trigger. But if not, we're not going to do it. I don't see us doing something just to do something because that'll kill our flexibility this summer. But in the event that there's somebody that really upgrades our talent and really makes our team better, then maybe we'll do it."
The Rockets have also been discussing deals for the Wizards for some time and have maintained an interest in Butler and Haywood in a deal featuring Tracy McGrady's $22.5 million expiring contract.
As with the Dallas talks, though, Washington has continued to seek more than mere payroll relief from Houston. The Rockets have balked at including any of the players in their long-term plans -- such as Shane Battier, Carl Landry, Luis Scola or Kyle Lowry -- just as the Mavericks say they won't surrender Beaubois.
The Wizards have likewise repeatedly insisted that Cleveland include young power forward J.J. Hickson in a trade for Jamison, which has dissuaded the Cavs from following through on their longstanding Jamison interest.
Yahoo! Sports reported Friday that the Wizards and Boston Celtics are discussing a trade that would send Butler and Jamison to the Celtics for a package headlined by Ray Allen's $19.7 million expiring contract. Celtics general manager Danny Ainge has subsequently denied such talks, telling The Boston Globe "there is no truth" to the notion of swapping Allen for two players who could dramatically reshape the look of the Celtics.
Although one source warned Friday that it would be a mistake "to sleep on that one," another source close to the situation insisted to ESPN.com that a Boston-Washington swap looks "very doubtful" because of the considerable long-term expense Boston would be taking on -- for players who play the same positions as Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett -- and because of Washington's reluctance to part with Jamison.
"I have no control over trade rumors," Allen said via his Twitter feed. "Let's just focus on being positive. I am a Celtic. Green all day."
j_crazy
Posts: 8,372
Feb 12, 2010 3:52pm
I still say I'd rather have JJ than Jamison, if they can do the deals you're mentioning with murphy and rip and keep jj and z, that's the best option IMO.
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 3:57pm
J, its already known no trade will include JJ. They want to keep him for the future but they are also worried about his producting come May and June.j_crazy wrote: I still say I'd rather have JJ than Jamison, if they can do the deals you're mentioning with murphy and rip and keep jj and z, that's the best option IMO.
Its still a week away from the deadline and the teams unloading players are still asking for a lot hoping teams cave in to their demands.
But there is a reason why Ferry is working on deals. He knows he can get players without giving up anything which is good.
Hb31187
Posts: 8,534
Feb 12, 2010 4:33pm
So...they refuse to give up JJ and get Jamison and become even MORE of an overwhelming favorite to crush the entire Eastern Conference?
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 4:39pm
Why give up JJ when its possible the Wizards are just posturing?Hb31187 wrote: So...they refuse to give up JJ and get Jamison and become even MORE of an overwhelming favorite to crush the entire Eastern Conference?
Cleveland has all the power and leverage right now. We are the best team in the NBA and its just our luck we have pieces to make moves without losing our core group now and for the future. Do we need to make moves, probably not but there is no reason not to if it will A) make the team better and deeper B) without giving up anything of value outside a low 1st rounder.
Meanwhile, the Wizards are a terrible team and want to shed cap while rebuilding. Yes, they would want to get young players and picks to make the trades look good.
There is no reason for Ferry to jump and offer Z/JJ/1st. Wait it out until the Feb 18th, if the Wizards are still looking you offer Z/1st and put the pressure on them to see if they truly want to dump salary.
If the Wizards don't pull the trigger, the Cavs are still the best team in the NBA. Its a no lose situation for Cleveland.
Same situation with Murphy and the Pacers. Offer cap relief and a pick, no JJ and wait.
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Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Feb 12, 2010 4:40pm
The Nuggets were fuggin awesome last night wweren't they?Hb31187 wrote: So...they refuse to give up JJ and get Jamison and become even MORE of an overwhelming favorite to crush the entire Eastern Conference?
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 4:41pm
Per Mark Stein:
Just filed to ESPN.com: Mavs-Wiz trade talks have only gotten more serious this afternoon. Many sources say sides closing in on a deal
Hb31187
Posts: 8,534
Feb 12, 2010 4:43pm
Lol you sir are quite the bag of doucheFootwedge wrote:The Nuggets were fuggin awesome last night wweren't they?Hb31187 wrote: So...they refuse to give up JJ and get Jamison and become even MORE of an overwhelming favorite to crush the entire Eastern Conference?
Hb31187
Posts: 8,534
Feb 12, 2010 4:44pm
If you did send Z to them would he be right back to the Cavs in a few weeks or would he be with Washington for the long haul?devil1197 wrote:Why give up JJ when its possible the Wizards are just posturing?Hb31187 wrote: So...they refuse to give up JJ and get Jamison and become even MORE of an overwhelming favorite to crush the entire Eastern Conference?
Cleveland has all the power and leverage right now. We are the best team in the NBA and its just our luck we have pieces to make moves without losing our core group now and for the future. Do we need to make moves, probably not but there is no reason not to if it will A) make the team better and deeper B) without giving up anything of value outside a low 1st rounder.
Meanwhile, the Wizards are a terrible team and want to shed cap while rebuilding. Yes, they would want to get young players and picks to make the trades look good.
There is no reason for Ferry to jump and offer Z/JJ/1st. Wait it out until the Feb 18th, if the Wizards are still looking you offer Z/1st and put the pressure on them to see if they truly want to dump salary.
If the Wizards don't pull the trigger, the Cavs are still the best team in the NBA. Its a no lose situation for Cleveland.
Same situation with Murphy and the Pacers. Offer cap relief and a pick, no JJ and wait.
And yeah I guess that makes sense, I just dunno why people are so high on JJ(some jokingly and some actually serious)
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devil1197
Posts: 6,220
Feb 12, 2010 4:46pm
I hope to think Ferry will make sure that Z is bought out (include a couple million in the trade towards the buyout). Yes, it is illegal but has and will happen again.Hb31187 wrote:If you did send Z to them would he be right back to the Cavs in a few weeks or would he be with Washington for the long haul?devil1197 wrote:Why give up JJ when its possible the Wizards are just posturing?Hb31187 wrote: So...they refuse to give up JJ and get Jamison and become even MORE of an overwhelming favorite to crush the entire Eastern Conference?
Cleveland has all the power and leverage right now. We are the best team in the NBA and its just our luck we have pieces to make moves without losing our core group now and for the future. Do we need to make moves, probably not but there is no reason not to if it will A) make the team better and deeper B) without giving up anything of value outside a low 1st rounder.
Meanwhile, the Wizards are a terrible team and want to shed cap while rebuilding. Yes, they would want to get young players and picks to make the trades look good.
There is no reason for Ferry to jump and offer Z/JJ/1st. Wait it out until the Feb 18th, if the Wizards are still looking you offer Z/1st and put the pressure on them to see if they truly want to dump salary.
If the Wizards don't pull the trigger, the Cavs are still the best team in the NBA. Its a no lose situation for Cleveland.
Same situation with Murphy and the Pacers. Offer cap relief and a pick, no JJ and wait.
And yeah I guess that makes sense, I just dunno why people are so high on JJ(some jokingly and some actually serious)
Everyone thinks JJ will be a star. He definitely has the athleticism and if he can improve his defensive skills and jump shot then I see no reason he cannot be a double double guy. He is only 21 and really didn't play last season and this summer.