Do You Hate Referees?

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ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

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Jan 30, 2010 11:16 PM
Laley23 wrote: Oh, and I HATE fans who remind me that "fouls are 8 to 3!" I mean, honestly I have NO CLUE what team I am calling fouls on. I wouldnt know what the foul count is unless they pointed it out. As a referee, I dont usually have a clue as to the team that is winning (until I obviously need to, at the end for fouling purposes etc.) But for the most part, I have no clue what team is fouling more. So from that perspective, I could not be biased in my calls, lol.
Not to mention, they are just numbers. There are so many different styles of play, zone defense vs. man, driving to the bucket vs. outside shots, press defense. NO ONE takes those into account. They just see the numbers.
Jan 30, 2010 11:16pm
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

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Jan 30, 2010 11:16 PM
ernest_t_bass wrote:
Laley23 wrote: Oh, and I HATE fans who remind me that "fouls are 8 to 3!" I mean, honestly I have NO CLUE what team I am calling fouls on. I wouldnt know what the foul count is unless they pointed it out. As a referee, I dont usually have a clue as to the team that is winning (until I obviously need to, at the end for fouling purposes etc.) But for the most part, I have no clue what team is fouling more. So from that perspective, I could not be biased in my calls, lol.
Not to mention, they are just numbers. There are so many different styles of play, zone defense vs. man, driving to the bucket vs. outside shots, press defense. NO ONE takes those into account. They just see the numbers.
Plus there are teams out there who really don't foul that much and some who hack the crap out of the other team.
Jan 30, 2010 11:16pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Jan 30, 2010 11:18 PM
Here's another thing... what if officials started yelling at coaches when they made bonehead coaching moves? We don't get to point out their mistakes... sucks.
Jan 30, 2010 11:18pm
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

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Jan 30, 2010 11:19 PM
Never had an official yell at my bone head move, but one did come up to me during a FT and say "what the hell were you thinking letting that kid bring the ball up?" I about lost it.
Jan 30, 2010 11:19pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Jan 30, 2010 11:20 PM
wildcats20 wrote:
ernest_t_bass wrote:
Not to mention, they are just numbers. There are so many different styles of play, zone defense vs. man, driving to the bucket vs. outside shots, press defense. NO ONE takes those into account. They just see the numbers.
Plus there are teams out there who really don't foul that much and some who hack the crap out of the other team.
Exactly. We had a game the other day where I was a "fan". The fouls with 20 seconds left were 10-1. A parent who I know, sons on team, asked if the refs were giving in to the home crowd. I said, "Not really, Team A has been fouling a lot, while we really have only had 2 all half."

I went back and watched the game on BCSN (it was Toledo Christian @ Maumee Valley) and was spot on. The refs did a great job. I only saw about 3 missed calls all game. 1 missed foul and 2 missed travels.
Jan 30, 2010 11:20pm
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

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Jan 30, 2010 11:20 PM
About lost it as in falling to the floor laughing.
Jan 30, 2010 11:20pm
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

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Jan 30, 2010 11:42 PM
Laley or anyone...

Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??
Jan 30, 2010 11:42pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

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Jan 30, 2010 11:43 PM
wildcats20 wrote: Laley or anyone...

Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??
haha...we were discussing this tonight as Cleveland Benedictine had about 10 guys that were just flying above the rim and laying it in. I think this is just one of those oldtimer tradition rules that needs to be lifted. Honestly, it isn't hurting anyone.
Jan 30, 2010 11:43pm
O

osu99

Senior Member

333 posts
Jan 30, 2010 11:44 PM
I officiated hoops for 8 years and can tell you there are a lot of douches calling games that are unlikable people.
Jan 30, 2010 11:44pm
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

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Jan 30, 2010 11:46 PM
wes_mantooth wrote:
wildcats20 wrote: Laley or anyone...

Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??
haha...we were discussing this tonight as Cleveland Benedictine had about 10 guys that were just flying above the rim and laying it in. I think this is just one of those oldtimer tradition rules that needs to be lifted. Honestly, it isn't hurting anyone.
Just ventured over to the HS forum and saw your post. Which is why I brought it up. I have never understood it, maybe back in the day when there weren't break away rims I could see why you wouldn't want dunking all the time. But this is 2010, I think it needs to be taken off the books; like you said it doesn't hurt anyone. Granted if you can dunk, more than likely you can just get up there and drop the ball in; so why touch the rim?
Jan 30, 2010 11:46pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Jan 30, 2010 11:46 PM
wildcats20 wrote: Laley or anyone...

Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??
Im almost positive it has to do with the combination of injuries and possibly breaking the apparatus.

Obviously in games, you cant regulate what a player wants to attempt, but in warm-ups you can, so they (OHSAA) do. I HAVE seen 2 kids seriously injured trying to dunk when they can (but not easily). This could easily happen in warm-ups if it is allowed.

Someone correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure I remember that being the reason (I did take the class in August though...)
Jan 30, 2010 11:46pm
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

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Jan 30, 2010 11:48 PM
Laley23 wrote:
wildcats20 wrote: Laley or anyone...

Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??
Im almost positive it has to do with the combination of injuries and possibly breaking the apparatus.

Obviously in games, you cant regulate what a player wants to attempt, but in warm-ups you can, so they (OHSAA) do. I HAVE seen 2 kids seriously injured trying to dunk when they can (but not easily). This could easily happen in warm-ups if it is allowed.

Someone correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure I remember that being the reason (I did take the class in August though...)
My guess was damage to the backboard and rim, injury really never crossed my mind. I know the last thing I would want to do is embarrass myself trying to dunk when I know I can't for sure.
Jan 30, 2010 11:48pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

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Jan 30, 2010 11:50 PM
Laley23 wrote:
wildcats20 wrote: Laley or anyone...

Can you explain to me the no dunking in warm ups rule?? I mean obviously you can't touch the rim, but why is it in place??
Im almost positive it has to do with the combination of injuries and possibly breaking the apparatus.

Obviously in games, you cant regulate what a player wants to attempt, but in warm-ups you can, so they (OHSAA) do. I HAVE seen 2 kids seriously injured trying to dunk when they can (but not easily). This could easily happen in warm-ups if it is allowed.

Someone correct me if Im wrong, but Im pretty sure I remember that being the reason (I did take the class in August though...)
I can understand that, but these kids were doing all the acrobatics, but then just throwing it down with out touching the rim, so I don't see where it is reducing injury problems.

And as for breaking the apparatus, I could see that "back in the day", but not anymore.
Jan 30, 2010 11:50pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Jan 30, 2010 11:51 PM
wildcats20 wrote:

Just ventured over to the HS forum and saw your post. Which is why I brought it up. I have never understood it, maybe back in the day when there weren't break away rims I could see why you wouldn't want dunking all the time. But this is 2010, I think it needs to be taken off the books; like you said it doesn't hurt anyone. Granted if you can dunk, more than likely you can just get up there and drop the ball in; so why touch the rim?
The problem with that logic though is this:

You would be SHOCKED at the amount of shit baskets still in use. Now, I dont mean like hundreds, but a lot more than you would think around Ohio, and they need to make the rule across the board, not for certain schools.

ALSO, until the game officially starts, the school would technically be responsible for the players on the court. A referee is responsible for their safety during the games and we have a lot of backing if we were to be sued for a kid getting hurt. But if it were to happen before hand, you could have a lot of lawsuits towards the referees, OHSAA, and the school.
Jan 30, 2010 11:51pm
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

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Jan 30, 2010 11:53 PM
Laley23 wrote:
wildcats20 wrote:

Just ventured over to the HS forum and saw your post. Which is why I brought it up. I have never understood it, maybe back in the day when there weren't break away rims I could see why you wouldn't want dunking all the time. But this is 2010, I think it needs to be taken off the books; like you said it doesn't hurt anyone. Granted if you can dunk, more than likely you can just get up there and drop the ball in; so why touch the rim?
The problem with that logic though is this:

You would be SHOCKED at the amount of shit baskets still in use. Now, I dont mean like hundreds, but a lot more than you would think around Ohio, and they need to make the rule across the board, not for certain schools.

ALSO, until the game officially starts, the school would technically be responsible for the players on the court. A referee is responsible for their safety during the games and we have a lot of backing if we were to be sued for a kid getting hurt. But if it were to happen before hand, you could have a lot of lawsuits towards the referees, OHSAA, and the school.
That is true about the shit baskets. I think there needs to be some sort of regulation upgrade or something. And another thing about the baskets I don't understand is the fact that there are a ton of schools with the backboards that hang down below the rim. Backboards are not that expensive, get new ones.
Jan 30, 2010 11:53pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Jan 30, 2010 11:55 PM
wes_mantooth wrote:

I can understand that, but these kids were doing all the acrobatics, but then just throwing it down with out touching the rim, so I don't see where it is reducing injury problems.

And as for breaking the apparatus, I could see that "back in the day", but not anymore.
Yeah, Im not saying I really like it a a rule, but I do understand it.

Players like you are explaining are really not doing anything to prevent the injuries....but get to a small D-5 school or the like where a kid is going to try something on his last home game or something.... I know it isnt very likely, but these rules are really only present because it happened before at some point. It is just easier to keep them in place because of what I said earlier. OHSAA has to make the rules for all divisions and all schools in Ohio, and at some point, some idiot would get hurt...
Jan 30, 2010 11:55pm
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Laley23

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Jan 30, 2010 11:56 PM
wildcats20 wrote:

That is true about the shit baskets. I think there needs to be some sort of regulation upgrade or something. And another thing about the baskets I don't understand is the fact that there are a ton of schools with the backboards that hang down below the rim. Backboards are not that expensive, get new ones.
I did a game the other day with the rounded backboards, and it was metal (not glass). Square was painted on, it was not a break-away. Now, it was a middle school gym, but that really is ridiculous.
Jan 30, 2010 11:56pm
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

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Jan 30, 2010 11:59 PM
Laley23 wrote:
wildcats20 wrote:

That is true about the shit baskets. I think there needs to be some sort of regulation upgrade or something. And another thing about the baskets I don't understand is the fact that there are a ton of schools with the backboards that hang down below the rim. Backboards are not that expensive, get new ones.
I did a game the other day with the rounded backboards, and it was metal (not glass). Square was painted on, it was not a break-away. Now, it was a middle school gym, but that really is ridiculous.
That is terrible. I thought the Newark middle schools were bad. Where you have to stand inbound to inbound the ball. And there is an extra line about 3-4 feet on each side of half court that once you get into the front court serves as the back court violation line. Such a joke.
Jan 30, 2010 11:59pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

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Jan 31, 2010 12:00 AM
^^^Yeah, we had to deal with that in varsity ball a few times. I think they called it a restriction line. Also, we played at one gym where you could not shoot corner threes because the 3pt line met with the out of bounds line.
Jan 31, 2010 12:00am
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

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Jan 31, 2010 12:05 AM
The one thing about that I don't like is it is clearly an advantage for the home team. They practice on it everyday and then the visiting comes in once a year and has to adjust to it.
Jan 31, 2010 12:05am
NNN's avatar

NNN

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902 posts
Jan 31, 2010 12:10 AM
ernest_t_bass wrote: Here's another thing... what if officials started yelling at coaches when they made bonehead coaching moves? We don't get to point out their mistakes... sucks.
Sure they do. Here's umpire Tom Haller going back at Earl Weaver.

(not safe for work or young children's ears)
Jan 31, 2010 12:10am
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majorspark

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Jan 31, 2010 12:13 AM
wes_mantooth wrote: ^^^Yeah, we had to deal with that in varsity ball a few times. I think they called it a restriction line. Also, we played at one gym where you could not shoot corner threes because the 3pt line met with the out of bounds line.
I don't know how far back you go, but do you remember playing on the stage at Jewett-Scio?
Jan 31, 2010 12:13am
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wes_mantooth

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Jan 31, 2010 12:33 AM
Yep and the stage at Newcomerstown in junior high. The restriction line was at Strasburg and Connotton Valley had the 3pt line that met with the out of bounds line. The IVC was good for some interesting places to play...lol
Jan 31, 2010 12:33am
T

tuskytuffguy

Senior Member

615 posts
Jan 31, 2010 12:34 AM
My opinion is, if you're a basketball ref, just STFU. The officiating, and the supposed "glamour" of dunks has killed the game entirely. May as well rename it Barnball.

Got tired of seing lovetaps called foul, and thrown across the floor no-calls.
Jan 31, 2010 12:34am
S

Swamp Fox

Senior Member

2,218 posts
Jan 31, 2010 12:43 AM
Having had some experience in officiating games, I rarely, if ever, criticize game officials. Their job is very tough and they get an amazing number of calls, including many "bang, bang" calls, correct. I would guess that they get a whole lot more calls correct than the many experts who help them make those calls from bleachers, dug outs, and other areas close to the athletic court or field. Officiating is part of the game and since the players and managers are human (for the most part), and make mistakes from time to time, I think it only fair that we give some slack to the guys and gals who are paid to call the action. Fans, afterall do not have a neutral opinion going in. They want every close call and they want their heroes to win. Game officials ideally have no ax to grind or special team to favor, and only want to insure that the teams involved get fair, consistent officiating from start to finish.
Jan 31, 2010 12:43am