How the hell can you not blame a COACH for not adapting his style to what he has available? If you want to implement your system over time, fine. Do it slowly. It shouldn't be all or nothing, especially at UM.

ytownfootball wrote: So Pat Fitzgerald runs a spread, Zooker does too. NW also plays some D, I just don't see UM able to attract as many high quality recruits running some Mickey Mouse offense that has yet to be run with a high degree of success in the Big 10. Mallett left becase he wanted to have a better shot at being a pro, Pryor chose not to attend UM for the same reason.

I don't know man, I want UM to be better than what they are I don't see it though.

I don't know, that spread offense has stifled OSU more than a couple times. IMO, Pryor would have hit the ground running if he would have went to Michigan and played in RR's system. BTW, if Pryor doesn't improve that God awful throwing motion and his defensive reads, he better start learning how to run routes when his time comes at the next level.

Look, I'm no Michigan fan, but let's be honest, they are terrible. When you can barely beat Notre Dame of all schools, a perennial bottom feeder who's best win in the past 20 years was a close loss to USC, you are merely a bottom feeder.

They will never beat Ohio State again, and you can take that to the bank.

You have to be smart to play QB. Pryor will never be a consistently good QB, especially in the NFL, simply because he doesn't have the smarts...

sleeper wrote: Look, I'm no Michigan fan, but let's be honest, they are terrible. When you can barely beat Notre Dame of all schools, a perennial bottom feeder who's best win in the past 20 years was a close loss to USC, you are merely a bottom feeder.

They will never beat Ohio State again, and you can take that to the bank.

Ever again... right...for all the future games in this rivalry, UM will never beat OSU ever again...that makes sense. C'mon, let's be serious here.

rock_knutne wrote:

ytownfootball wrote: So Pat Fitzgerald runs a spread, Zooker does too. NW also plays some D, I just don't see UM able to attract as many high quality recruits running some Mickey Mouse offense that has yet to be run with a high degree of success in the Big 10. Mallett left becase he wanted to have a better shot at being a pro, Pryor chose not to attend UM for the same reason.

I don't know man, I want UM to be better than what they are I don't see it though.

I don't know, that spread offense has stifled OSU more than a couple times. IMO, Pryor would have hit the ground running if he would have went to Michigan and played in RR's system. BTW, if Pryor doesn't improve that God awful throwing motion and his defensive reads, he better start learning how to run routes when his time comes at the next level.

And Ohio State has beaten it more than a couple of times, most recently in the Rose Bowl. The point is of course that Pryor would be looking to enter the NFL as an athlete, not a QB were he to have attended UM. He at least has the opportunity to improve those skill at OSU.

sleeper wrote: Look, I'm no Michigan fan, but let's be honest, they are terrible. When you can barely beat Notre Dame of all schools, a perennial bottom feeder who's best win in the past 20 years was a close loss to USC, you are merely a bottom feeder.

They will never beat Ohio State again, and you can take that to the bank.

Another piece of brillance.:rolleyes:

pkebker wrote: You have to be smart to play QB. Pryor will never be a consistently good QB, especially in the NFL, simply because he doesn't have the smarts...

Same reason why UM won't be any good with RR, he doesn't have the smarts.

OldDanTucker wrote:

insuranceguy wrote:

OldDanTucker wrote:

insuranceguy wrote: So if he does not NEED a running qb in his system, then why is he 37-38 without Pat White as his qb? Please explain

29-22 before coming to UM and having 2 guys who would have never played for anyone else and the following year with a freshman qb

So 29-22 is acceptable No way Not At Michigan Lloyd was fired for that and was in the Big Ten which is much tougher than the Big East. Your making no sense what so ever. He has no track record of being a winner at high level at all. Lloyd won a NC and was one win away from being in another and Lloyds last game was a win over Florida and Tim Tebow. Come on. RR is turning a proud and tradition rich program into an average program period. All the signs are there? But if you are so adament about defending him then tell me one coach who came to a great program that was in the top 10 most of the time and had the two years that RR had but then ended up turning it around. I cant think of one myself.

No 29-22 is not acceptable at UM you are right about that. I am not saying RR is the answer but we need to at least give the man a chance. He has had 1 season to get his own recruits onto the field. You need to get off the whole LLoyd Carr thing, just go back and look at his last couple of recruting classes and tell me that he left this program with anything. People want to defend LLoyd Carr because he won a NC over a decade ago but seem to forget that he couldn't win against appy state with guys like Chad Henne, Mike Hart, Mario Manningham, Adrian Arrington, Jake Long.

That same group beat Florida. The Appy State was one game. It happens. It shouldnt but it does. TOSU shouldnt have lost to Purdue this year but it happened. RR signature win beating Notre Dame. Great coaches dont need time. Meyer ,Brown Tressel, Carroll all won quickly. As far as recruiting classes Lloyds last classes per Scout 2003-#8 in the country 2004-#5 2005-#2 2006-#9 2007-#10 2008(his and RR)-#6 RR alone 2009-#14 and this year right now #9 As for busts Every class has them at every school. Notre Dame used the same excuse with Willingham stating Weis is recruiting better. That turned out real well. Its what you do with the players you have at the time. RR has no clue what to do unless he has a great athlete at Qb (Pat White-his only one since becoming a head coach). I would much rather have a coach who can adapt to his talent. Rather than force a system on kids who cant run it

insuranceguy wrote:Great coaches dont need time. Meyer ,Brown Tressel, Carroll all won quickly. As far as recruiting classes Lloyds last classes per Scout 2003-#8 in the country 2004-#5 2005-#2 2006-#9 2007-#10 2008(his and RR)-#6 RR alone 2009-#14 and this year right now #9 As for busts Every class has them at every school. Notre Dame used the same excuse with Willingham stating Weis is recruiting better. That turned out real well. Its what you do with the players you have at the time. RR has no clue what to do unless he has a great athlete at Qb (Pat White-his only one since becoming a head coach). I would much rather have a coach who can adapt to his talent. Rather than force a system on kids who cant run it

Umm, Carroll didn't win right away at USC, it took him two years to get rolling. Meyer inherited a boat load of talent at Florida as did Tressel at OSU and he didn't have the greatest first year either. As for your ND comment, Willingham rectuited no where near the level of players Weis did, Weis neglected the defense and that's why he's gone. On your last statement about a coach who can adapt to his talent, Tressel hasn't done that with Pryor, not even close.

rock_knutne wrote:

sleeper wrote: Look, I'm no Michigan fan, but let's be honest, they are terrible. When you can barely beat Notre Dame of all schools, a perennial bottom feeder who's best win in the past 20 years was a close loss to USC, you are merely a bottom feeder.

They will never beat Ohio State again, and you can take that to the bank.

Another piece of brillance.:rolleyes:

Truth hurts doesnt it? By the way Tressel isn't going to adapt to Pryor's talents. Pryor came to OSU to adapt his talent to OSU's system so he could be a professional quarterback. He is only a sophomore asshole. I guarantee Pryor will have more success at QB in the NFL than Brady Quinn or Jimmy Clausen will. It's funny you keep talking about this past "problems with spread" shit..if you had time to watch the Buckeyes play Jan 1, you would realize that Oregon ran the spread..I'm sure you did since the Leprechauns weren't playing or anything. Good day.

Pick6 wrote: Truth hurts doesnt it? By the way Tressel isn't going to adapt to Pryor's talents. Pryor came to OSU to adapt his talent to OSU's system so he could be a professional quarterback. He is only a sophomore asshole. I guarantee Pryor will have more success at QB in the NFL than Brady Quinn or Jimmy Clausen will. It's funny you keep talking about this past "problems with spread" shit..if you had time to watch the Buckeyes play Jan 1, you would realize that Oregon ran the spread..I'm sure you did since the Leprechauns weren't playing or anything. Good day.

Care to wager a large sum of money on that?? Quinn has already done more in his career as a QB than Pryor will ever come close to. And I think it's safe to say he hasn't enjoyed a whole lot of success.

LOL @ the fool's who say " Well Carr or coach so and so would have gotten 8-9 wins the last two seasons"

The goal of Michigan football is to compete for NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS and the 8-10 win status quo that ohio state fan's would love so dearly for Michigan to maintain would make Michigan average or just a little above. Average team's dont win national title's or many big 10 titles for that matter. Why do Ohio State fan's want so badly for Michigan to be at that 8-9 win level? Because it makes them look better when they regularly beat them and helps their poll position.

In order to compete for national title's the michigan program had to be blown up and rebuilt.

Tinkertrain wrote: LOL @ the fool's who say " Well Carr or coach so and so would have gotten 8-9 wins the last two seasons"

The goal of Michigan football is to compete for NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS and the 8-10 win status quo that ohio state fan's would love so dearly for Michigan to maintain would make Michigan average or just a little above. Average team's dont win national title's or many big 10 titles for that matter. Why do Ohio State fan's want so badly for Michigan to be at that 8-9 win level? Because it makes them look better when they regularly beat them and helps their poll position.

In order to compete for national title's the michigan program had to be blown up and rebuilt.

I knew there had to be more then one person who got it

insuranceguy wrote:

OldDanTucker wrote:

insuranceguy wrote:

OldDanTucker wrote:

insuranceguy wrote: So if he does not NEED a running qb in his system, then why is he 37-38 without Pat White as his qb? Please explain

29-22 before coming to UM and having 2 guys who would have never played for anyone else and the following year with a freshman qb

So 29-22 is acceptable No way Not At Michigan Lloyd was fired for that and was in the Big Ten which is much tougher than the Big East. Your making no sense what so ever. He has no track record of being a winner at high level at all. Lloyd won a NC and was one win away from being in another and Lloyds last game was a win over Florida and Tim Tebow. Come on. RR is turning a proud and tradition rich program into an average program period. All the signs are there? But if you are so adament about defending him then tell me one coach who came to a great program that was in the top 10 most of the time and had the two years that RR had but then ended up turning it around. I cant think of one myself.

No 29-22 is not acceptable at UM you are right about that. I am not saying RR is the answer but we need to at least give the man a chance. He has had 1 season to get his own recruits onto the field. You need to get off the whole LLoyd Carr thing, just go back and look at his last couple of recruting classes and tell me that he left this program with anything. People want to defend LLoyd Carr because he won a NC over a decade ago but seem to forget that he couldn't win against appy state with guys like Chad Henne, Mike Hart, Mario Manningham, Adrian Arrington, Jake Long.

That same group beat Florida. The Appy State was one game. It happens. It shouldnt but it does. TOSU shouldnt have lost to Purdue this year but it happened. RR signature win beating Notre Dame. Great coaches dont need time. Meyer ,Brown Tressel, Carroll all won quickly. As far as recruiting classes Lloyds last classes per Scout 2003-#8 in the country 2004-#5 2005-#2 2006-#9 2007-#10 2008(his and RR)-#6 RR alone 2009-#14 and this year right now #9 As for busts Every class has them at every school. Notre Dame used the same excuse with Willingham stating Weis is recruiting better. That turned out real well. Its what you do with the players you have at the time. RR has no clue what to do unless he has a great athlete at Qb (Pat White-his only one since becoming a head coach). I would much rather have a coach who can adapt to his talent. Rather than force a system on kids who cant run it

Florida is just one game to (see that works both ways). Point is a team with a ton of talent went 9-4 and lost to appy state AT HOME. As for the recruting classes go back and see how many top D recruits are on there toward the end of carr's career.

Pick6 wrote:

rock_knutne wrote:

sleeper wrote: Look, I'm no Michigan fan, but let's be honest, they are terrible. When you can barely beat Notre Dame of all schools, a perennial bottom feeder who's best win in the past 20 years was a close loss to USC, you are merely a bottom feeder.

They will never beat Ohio State again, and you can take that to the bank.

Another piece of brillance.:rolleyes:

Truth hurts doesnt it? By the way Tressel isn't going to adapt to Pryor's talents. Pryor came to OSU to adapt his talent to OSU's system so he could be a professional quarterback. He is only a sophomore asshole. I guarantee Pryor will have more success at QB in the NFL than Brady Quinn or Jimmy Clausen will. It's funny you keep talking about this past "problems with spread" shit..if you had time to watch the Buckeyes play Jan 1, you would realize that Oregon ran the spread..I'm sure you did since the Leprechauns weren't playing or anything. Good day.

Nice post douchebag! The only truth that should hurt is your lack of a brain! LMAO........Pryor will NEVER be an NFL QB, keep dreaming dumbass!

BTW, are you sleeper's boyfriend?

Pick6 wrote:

rock_knutne wrote:

sleeper wrote: Look, I'm no Michigan fan, but let's be honest, they are terrible. When you can barely beat Notre Dame of all schools, a perennial bottom feeder who's best win in the past 20 years was a close loss to USC, you are merely a bottom feeder.

They will never beat Ohio State again, and you can take that to the bank.

Another piece of brillance.:rolleyes:

Truth hurts doesnt it? By the way Tressel isn't going to adapt to Pryor's talents. Pryor came to OSU to adapt his talent to OSU's system so he could be a professional quarterback. He is only a sophomore asshole. I guarantee Pryor will have more success at QB in the NFL than Brady Quinn or Jimmy Clausen will. It's funny you keep talking about this past "problems with spread" shit..if you had time to watch the Buckeyes play Jan 1, you would realize that Oregon ran the spread..I'm sure you did since the Leprechauns weren't playing or anything. Good day.

Oh, this is the winner.... Pryor is definitly going ot be the better pro than 2 first round draft picks, hahaha. The next winner is the fact that you insult ND's QB's success in the NFL, yet you cite Pryor going to OSU to hone is pro skills... I don't even need to talk shit on this one, but you should try to think before you speak.

why dont you 2 go talk about notre dame somewhere and how brian kelly is the next lou holtz or something. Every Ohio State fans knows that part of the reason he chose OSU over teams like Michigan and Oregon is to develop his skills to become a qb in the nfl. He still has 2 years to improve and improved vastly from the beginning of last season to the end. I believe people said the same thing about Vince Young coming out of college..His form is terrible, etc. He hasnt done too bad in the nfl.

by the way..where your drafted really dont mean shit. Tony Romo and Kurt Warner were not drafted and they've easily had better pro careers than Matt Leinart, David Carr, Brady Quinn. All who were drafted high-mid first round.

Pick6 wrote: why dont you 2 go talk about notre dame somewhere and how brian kelly is the next lou holtz or something. Every Ohio State fans knows that part of the reason he chose OSU over teams like Michigan and Oregon is to develop his skills to become a qb in the nfl. He still has 2 years to improve and improved vastly from the beginning of last season to the end. I believe people said the same thing about Vince Young coming out of college..His form is terrible, etc. He hasnt done too bad in the nfl.

by the way..where your drafted really dont mean shit. Tony Romo and Kurt Warner were not drafted and they've easily had better pro careers than Matt Leinart, David Carr, Brady Quinn. All who were drafted high-mid first round.

If Pryor went to OSU to hone his skills for the NFL then he made a terrible mistake, name one former OSU QB who's starting in the NFL right now? His mechanics have not changed one bit, he can't read defenses and his decision making is suspect.

Yeah, draft position isn't everything but first rounders like Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger haven't done too bad. Tell me, exactly what has Vince Young done in the NFL?

Tinkertrain wrote: In order to compete for national title's the michigan program had to be blown up and rebuilt.

I disagree. See 2006.

I do agree we needed to be more diverse on offense perhaps, but running this Big East/WV/RRod spread is proving to be a little harder than most thought. Cripes, I remember watching the first spring drills in RRod's first year, and being all giddy because I thought what I was watching was the answer.

Now I'm not so sure.

So what happens when he has all his players and we are getting 8-9 wins? Is that good enough? It wasn't for Carr. Do you honestly see RRod getting this program to a level where we win 10+ every year?

Leave it to rock to turn this into a nd-osu pissing match. never fails.

btw, pryor looked pretty damn good during the rose bowl victory that made you tailspin into a meltdown.

rock_knutne wrote:

Pick6 wrote: why dont you 2 go talk about notre dame somewhere and how brian kelly is the next lou holtz or something. Every Ohio State fans knows that part of the reason he chose OSU over teams like Michigan and Oregon is to develop his skills to become a qb in the nfl. He still has 2 years to improve and improved vastly from the beginning of last season to the end. I believe people said the same thing about Vince Young coming out of college..His form is terrible, etc. He hasnt done too bad in the nfl.

by the way..where your drafted really dont mean shit. Tony Romo and Kurt Warner were not drafted and they've easily had better pro careers than Matt Leinart, David Carr, Brady Quinn. All who were drafted high-mid first round.

If Pryor went to OSU to hone his skills for the NFL then he made a terrible mistake, name one former OSU QB who's starting in the NFL right now? His mechanics have not changed one bit, he can't read defenses and his decision making is suspect.

Yeah, draft position isn't everything but first rounders like Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger haven't done too bad. Tell me, exactly what has Vince Young done in the NFL?

There are 0 starting quarterbacks from OSU in the NFL right now. Same can be said for ND, Georgia, Alabama, and even Florida.. I dont count Quinn as a starter since it seems like he loses his job every other week.

Vince's record is 18-11..which is a better win % than Jay Cutler(24-29) and Matt Ryan 21-13.

I'm not trying to proclaim vince as an elite qb. Just saying he's done fine in the nfl.

OldDanTucker wrote:

insuranceguy wrote:

OldDanTucker wrote:

insuranceguy wrote:

OldDanTucker wrote:

insuranceguy wrote: So if he does not NEED a running qb in his system, then why is he 37-38 without Pat White as his qb? Please explain

29-22 before coming to UM and having 2 guys who would have never played for anyone else and the following year with a freshman qb

So 29-22 is acceptable No way Not At Michigan Lloyd was fired for that and was in the Big Ten which is much tougher than the Big East. Your making no sense what so ever. He has no track record of being a winner at high level at all. Lloyd won a NC and was one win away from being in another and Lloyds last game was a win over Florida and Tim Tebow. Come on. RR is turning a proud and tradition rich program into an average program period. All the signs are there? But if you are so adament about defending him then tell me one coach who came to a great program that was in the top 10 most of the time and had the two years that RR had but then ended up turning it around. I cant think of one myself.

No 29-22 is not acceptable at UM you are right about that. I am not saying RR is the answer but we need to at least give the man a chance. He has had 1 season to get his own recruits onto the field. You need to get off the whole LLoyd Carr thing, just go back and look at his last couple of recruting classes and tell me that he left this program with anything. People want to defend LLoyd Carr because he won a NC over a decade ago but seem to forget that he couldn't win against appy state with guys like Chad Henne, Mike Hart, Mario Manningham, Adrian Arrington, Jake Long.

That same group beat Florida. The Appy State was one game. It happens. It shouldnt but it does. TOSU shouldnt have lost to Purdue this year but it happened. RR signature win beating Notre Dame. Great coaches dont need time. Meyer ,Brown Tressel, Carroll all won quickly. As far as recruiting classes Lloyds last classes per Scout 2003-#8 in the country 2004-#5 2005-#2 2006-#9 2007-#10 2008(his and RR)-#6 RR alone 2009-#14 and this year right now #9 As for busts Every class has them at every school. Notre Dame used the same excuse with Willingham stating Weis is recruiting better. That turned out real well. Its what you do with the players you have at the time. RR has no clue what to do unless he has a great athlete at Qb (Pat White-his only one since becoming a head coach). I would much rather have a coach who can adapt to his talent. Rather than force a system on kids who cant run it

Florida is just one game to (see that works both ways). Point is a team with a ton of talent went 9-4 and lost to appy state AT HOME. As for the recruting classes go back and see how many top D recruits are on there toward the end of carr's career.

I looked and you are correct that Lloyd did not have many top defensive recruits in his later years. As for recruiting top defensive players I will list the 4 and 5 star defensive recruits Carr retained from 2006,2007 and the part 2008 when he was still coach. Jonas Mouton-5 stars, Adam Patterson-4, Marques Slocum-5(no longer with team), Steve Brown-4 Corbrani Mixon-4(no longer with team), Brandon Graham-5, Donovan Warren-5, Michael Williams-4, Brandon Herron-4, Austin Panter-4, James Rogers-4, Ryan Van Bergen-4, J.B. Fitzgerald-4, Mike Martin-4, Marcus Witherspoon-4, Boubarcar Cissoko-5(no longer on team). RR defensive 4 and 5 star recruits-Brandon Smith-4, Wiiliam Campbell-5, Craig Roh-4, Anthony Lacota-4, J.T. Turner-5 and this year so far Josh Furman-4, Cullen Christian-4 and Marvin Robinson-4. Carr had 7 defensive three star recruits from 2006-till he left and RR has retained 17 so far. So Carr had more top recruits but RR has added depth with more 3 stars. Bottom line is there are enough highly touted players on this team to produce alot better than 3-9 and 5-7 period. Blaming Carr is an excuse.

dat dude wrote: Leave it to rock to turn this into a nd-osu pissing match. never fails.

btw, pryor looked pretty damn good during the rose bowl victory that made you tailspin into a meltdown.

just like clockwork--it's just a matter of time

WebFire wrote:

Tinkertrain wrote: In order to compete for national title's the michigan program had to be blown up and rebuilt.

I disagree. See 2006.

I do agree we needed to be more diverse on offense perhaps, but running this Big East/WV/RRod spread is proving to be a little harder than most thought. Cripes, I remember watching the first spring drills in RRod's first year, and being all giddy because I thought what I was watching was the answer.

Now I'm not so sure.

So what happens when he has all his players and we are getting 8-9 wins? Is that good enough? It wasn't for Carr. Do you honestly see RRod getting this program to a level where we win 10+ every year?

2006 was a team that got exposed in a major way at the end of the season.

Also i'm asking you this as a fellow michigan fan. shut up and let rich coach brother. Because if we dumb rich rod we are not going to get a better coach and ANOTHER rebuild of the program is going to take atleast 5 years.