So I have been reading on this site as well as a few other sites and on every site you have a few UM fans who are hoping for another bad year so they can get rid of RR. It amazes me that some people can actualy hope for their school to have a poor season because they dont like the coach. How can you call yourself a true fan of the University and hope for a poor season? We asked for a complete change at UM from the traditional run, run, pass, punt routine and now we have to deal with the growing pains. IMO UM just needs to forget 08-09 season, how could you have expected RR to do any better? It didn't help that the offense had 2 qbs who would have never seen the field in any other situation(1 former walk-on). A freshman rb who was constantly hurt and they had just lost their 2 best wrs to the draft. The D was a perfect example of what all of LC's last few D's were (out of shape and overrated). 5-7 for his second year(first that should count IMO), not exceptable at UM but understandable since they had 2 fresh qbs and a young D. They were only a few plays away from being 8-4 (I know also only a few plays away from being 3-9) but thats a mark of a young team IMO. Now if RR doesn't at least make it to a bowl game (win or lose bowl game) then yea he should be gone, but if he gets canned for going 6-6/7-5 then its a big mistake and will only set them back even farther IMO.

You "asked for it" the day you signed up to be a scUM fan in the first place. Allow me to kick you in nuts again...<POW!> <Unnnghh...>

I've never understood fans hoping for a bad season so that the current coach would be fired so someone else could be brought in. How about this? Why not hope that your team has a good season and that they get things turned around with the current coach? To me, that seems like a far better option than having another losing season and canning a guy who will most likely be replaced with a coach who will run a very different system who will also need several years to get "his guys" in there to be successful. People may hate him no because he's had two of the worst seasons in school history, but if I were a UM fan I'd prefer that they turn things around and win 9+ games next year. Then people may learn to like the guy.

I understand you shouldn't root against your own team. And I don't.

However, you don't think he should get canned for going 6-6 in his 3rd season? Sorry my fellow UM fan, but Michigan is no place to "hope" for things in the future. Get your shit together or get out!

3-9
5-7
6-6

Yeah, seems like someone I want to keep around. Maybe the fourth year he'll be 7-5?

OldDan, you signature kind of makes my point.

WebFire wrote: I understand you shouldn't root against your own team. And I don't.

However, you don't think he should get canned for going 6-6 in his 3rd season? Sorry my fellow UM fan, but Michigan is no place to "hope" for things in the future. Get your shit together or get out!

3-9
5-7
6-6

Yeah, seems like someone I want to keep around. Maybe the fourth year he'll be 7-5?

No I don't think he should be canned for going 6-6 next season. UM was in far worse shape then most people realize on D before RR came in. The offense fell apart after the 07-08 season due to transfers, draft, graduation. RR addressed the offense in his first full recruiting class and the offense looks good for the next couple of seasons. If you follow recruting (which most fans do) then you know that the D is being addressed now and on paper (they havent had a chance to prove themselves) the future looks bright for the d as well. If RR gets canned for going 6-6 this year I won't agree with it. If he gets 2 more seasons and in 2011 they don't contend for the big10 then yea he needs to be gone.

As an Ohio State fan, I hope the decision is to keep RR around for as long as possible. Hell, give him a 10 year extension NOW!

In all seriousness, I could never root for OSU to lose just to get rid of a coach (believe me, we had that opportunity with Cooper). If the coach isn't cutting it, you should know by year 4, I'd think.

Ohio State knew Coop wasn't getting it done (against UM and in the bowl games) that quickly, they just couldn't bring themselves to pull the trigger for fear of public backlash. Cooper finally hung himself by letting things get out of control off (and on) the field.

If the allegations of wrongdoing result in any sanctions by the NCAA, UM will have its chance to pull the trigger if they really want to make a change.

^^^ You do realize the great RR is 37-38 without Pat White as his Qb. That means your head coach is only good when he has a qb to run his system which has been once in his head coaching career. Great coaches must adapt to the talent they have not try to force there system on the kids. Michigan should never I repeat never be 3-9 ,5-7 and hoping for 6-6. If they are thats crap coaching. If JT came into TOSU and went 3-9 and 5-7 year 3 would not have happened. RR has taken Michigan backwards and I fear they will go the route Nebraska did and have a hard time rekindling the winning tradition. I hope I'm wrong. Michigan needs to be a power in the BIg Ten. Michigan needed to be a power football team. I think the Big Ten as a whole proved that this bowl season. TOSU,PSU and Iowa all had pretty good years and none ran a spread or anything like that. For the most part they played traditional Big 10 football. It still works and will continue to work. The spread option is a fade just like the west coast offense ,the wishbone etc. The only offense that has never gone away is the power I. Michigan needs to get back to that if they want sustained success.

OldDanTucker wrote:

WebFire wrote: I understand you shouldn't root against your own team. And I don't.

However, you don't think he should get canned for going 6-6 in his 3rd season? Sorry my fellow UM fan, but Michigan is no place to "hope" for things in the future. Get your shit together or get out!

3-9
5-7
6-6

Yeah, seems like someone I want to keep around. Maybe the fourth year he'll be 7-5?

No I don't think he should be canned for going 6-6 next season. UM was in far worse shape then most people realize on D before RR came in. The offense fell apart after the 07-08 season due to transfers, draft, graduation. RR addressed the offense in his first full recruiting class and the offense looks good for the next couple of seasons. If you follow recruting (which most fans do) then you know that the D is being addressed now and on paper (they havent had a chance to prove themselves) the future looks bright for the d as well. If RR gets canned for going 6-6 this year I won't agree with it. If he gets 2 more seasons and in 2011 they don't contend for the big10 then yea he needs to be gone.

Having spent half of the last year in Ann Arbor due to the fiancee being in graduate school up there, my perception is that the majority of fans will not tolerate a 6-6 season.

A bare minimum for Rich Rod next year is 7 win's or bust. I personally feel that Rich needs atleast 5 year's but knee jerk fan's will not be satisfied by 6-6. Your average Michigan fan just does not understand how badly Carr had let the program slip in the year's before his retirement and how much work RR has had to get the program back to where we all expect it to be. Carr left the coach that followed him NOTHING.

Let me put it this way, the collapse of Michigan football was coming no matter who was hired and the blame for that is squarely on Lloyd Carr. I mean for christ sakes prior to RR arrival summer workout's were optional, the players had no curfew and the S&T program was about 20 year's past it's prime. The recruiting classes were full of bust's and kid's who were not willing to work hard.

OldDanTucker wrote:

WebFire wrote: I understand you shouldn't root against your own team. And I don't.

However, you don't think he should get canned for going 6-6 in his 3rd season? Sorry my fellow UM fan, but Michigan is no place to "hope" for things in the future. Get your shit together or get out!

3-9
5-7
6-6

Yeah, seems like someone I want to keep around. Maybe the fourth year he'll be 7-5?

No I don't think he should be canned for going 6-6 next season. UM was in far worse shape then most people realize on D before RR came in. The offense fell apart after the 07-08 season due to transfers, draft, graduation.

Funny you mention that. If you look at RR's history, you would notice that those players would not have made a difference. He runs his system no matter if he has that type of player or not.

Tinkertrain wrote: A bare minimum for Rich Rod next year is 7 win's or bust. I personally feel that Rich needs atleast 5 year's but knee jerk fan's will not be satisfied by 6-6. Your average Michigan fan just does not understand how badly Carr had let the program slip in the year's before his retirement and how much work RR has had to get the program back to where we all expect it to be. Carr left the coach that followed him NOTHING.

Let me put it this way, the collapse of Michigan football was coming no matter who was hired and the blame for that is squarely on Lloyd Carr. I mean for christ sakes prior to RR arrival summer workout's were optional, the players had no curfew and the S&T program was about 20 year's past it's prime. The recruiting classes were full of bust's and kid's who were not willing to work hard.

Lloyd Carr's worst season was 7-5. In 13 years, he won one national title and five big ten titles. There's no way UM is this bad if he wasn't forced out. Mallet wouldn't have been a square peg being forced into a round hole, so you'd still have that for your offense. How anyone can blame Lloyd for this guy going 8-16 I'll never understand. (RR has done NOTHING at UM to deserve any kind of defense by the UM faithful.)

But, I'm with Writer. I think we should give RR a 10 year contract extension tomorrow. After all it's going to take him at least that long to get all his guys in there.

Absolute best they go next year is 4 - 8

^^^as much as I'd love this,I believe they'll go 7-5...and lose their bowl game to BGSU

LJ wrote:

OldDanTucker wrote:

WebFire wrote: I understand you shouldn't root against your own team. And I don't.

However, you don't think he should get canned for going 6-6 in his 3rd season? Sorry my fellow UM fan, but Michigan is no place to "hope" for things in the future. Get your shit together or get out!

3-9
5-7
6-6

Yeah, seems like someone I want to keep around. Maybe the fourth year he'll be 7-5?

No I don't think he should be canned for going 6-6 next season. UM was in far worse shape then most people realize on D before RR came in. The offense fell apart after the 07-08 season due to transfers, draft, graduation.

Funny you mention that. If you look at RR's history, you would notice that those players would not have made a difference. He runs his system no matter if he has that type of player or not.

Yes because it would have been difficult for mario manningham and adrian arrington to learn how to catch the ball in the spread right? This is where the common fan is wrong about RR's system everyone looks at what he did with pat white and assumes that he HAS to have a qb who can run instead of a passer.If that was the case why wasn't Denard Robinson the starting qb? Tate Forcier isn't exactly scaring defenses with his running ability and neither was shaun king or Steven Threet or even Nick Sheridan for that matter. Mallet COULD have played in the spread he just didn't want to. Also there's no gurantee that he would have stayed at UM even if Carr was there another year. Mallet almost left before the start of his freshman season but Carr convinced him to stay. He never was 100% michigan and RR coming in was just a perfect excuse for him to leave.

FatHobbit wrote:

Tinkertrain wrote: A bare minimum for Rich Rod next year is 7 win's or bust. I personally feel that Rich needs atleast 5 year's but knee jerk fan's will not be satisfied by 6-6. Your average Michigan fan just does not understand how badly Carr had let the program slip in the year's before his retirement and how much work RR has had to get the program back to where we all expect it to be. Carr left the coach that followed him NOTHING.

Let me put it this way, the collapse of Michigan football was coming no matter who was hired and the blame for that is squarely on Lloyd Carr. I mean for christ sakes prior to RR arrival summer workout's were optional, the players had no curfew and the S&T program was about 20 year's past it's prime. The recruiting classes were full of bust's and kid's who were not willing to work hard.

Lloyd Carr's worst season was 7-5. In 13 years, he won one national title and five big ten titles. There's no way UM is this bad if he wasn't forced out. Mallet wouldn't have been a square peg being forced into a round hole, so you'd still have that for your offense. How anyone can blame Lloyd for this guy going 8-16 I'll never understand. (RR has done NOTHING at UM to deserve any kind of defense by the UM faithful.)

But, I'm with Writer. I think we should give RR a 10 year contract extension tomorrow. After all it's going to take him at least that long to get all his guys in there.

Carr also inherited a very good program and towards the end of his career slowly drove it into the ground. RR inherited a program that just lost a TON of talent, had no depth, and had just lost to appy state that season.

OldDanTucker wrote:

LJ wrote:

OldDanTucker wrote:

WebFire wrote: I understand you shouldn't root against your own team. And I don't.

However, you don't think he should get canned for going 6-6 in his 3rd season? Sorry my fellow UM fan, but Michigan is no place to "hope" for things in the future. Get your shit together or get out!

3-9
5-7
6-6

Yeah, seems like someone I want to keep around. Maybe the fourth year he'll be 7-5?

No I don't think he should be canned for going 6-6 next season. UM was in far worse shape then most people realize on D before RR came in. The offense fell apart after the 07-08 season due to transfers, draft, graduation.

Funny you mention that. If you look at RR's history, you would notice that those players would not have made a difference. He runs his system no matter if he has that type of player or not.

Yes because it would have been difficult for mario manningham and adrian arrington to learn how to catch the ball in the spread right? This is where the common fan is wrong about RR's system everyone looks at what he did with pat white and assumes that he HAS to have a qb who can run instead of a passer.If that was the case why wasn't Denard Robinson the starting qb? Tate Forcier isn't exactly scaring defenses with his running ability and neither was shaun king or Steven Threet or even Nick Sheridan for that matter. Mallet COULD have played in the spread he just didn't want to. Also there's no gurantee that he would have stayed at UM even if Carr was there another year. Mallet almost left before the start of his freshman season but Carr convinced him to stay. He never was 100% michigan and RR coming in was just a perfect excuse for him to leave.

I'm going to have to say that you disregarded what I was saying. RR has problems adapting his system to what he has. It was evident his first year at WVU. To say that having those players would have made a difference is ridiculous, because he would have run a system that none of them were suited for.

He HAS to have players who fit his system.

So Pat Fitzgerald runs a spread, Zooker does too. NW also plays some D, I just don't see UM able to attract as many high quality recruits running some Mickey Mouse offense that has yet to be run with a high degree of success in the Big 10. Mallett left becase he wanted to have a better shot at being a pro, Pryor chose not to attend UM for the same reason.

I don't know man, I want UM to be better than what they are I don't see it though.

So if he does not NEED a running qb in his system, then why is he 37-38 without Pat White as his qb? Please explain

OldDanTucker wrote:

FatHobbit wrote: Lloyd Carr's worst season was 7-5. In 13 years, he won one national title and five big ten titles. There's no way UM is this bad if he wasn't forced out. Mallet wouldn't have been a square peg being forced into a round hole, so you'd still have that for your offense. How anyone can blame Lloyd for this guy going 8-16 I'll never understand. (RR has done NOTHING at UM to deserve any kind of defense by the UM faithful.)

But, I'm with Writer. I think we should give RR a 10 year contract extension tomorrow. After all it's going to take him at least that long to get all his guys in there.

Carr also inherited a very good program and towards the end of his career slowly drove it into the ground. RR inherited a program that just lost a TON of talent, had no depth, and had just lost to appy state that season.

The last three years Carr went 7-5, 11-2 and 9-5. If that is slowly driving a program into the ground then what do you call what RR has done the last two years? (I feel like I've had this conversation with you before...)

Last year everyone was all about how RR always starts out slow but then improves dramatically the second year. (9-3 seems to be the number I remember everyone talking about.) What happened to that? Is 5-7 really an acceptable improvement in the second year?

insuranceguy wrote: So if he does not NEED a running qb in his system, then why is he 37-38 without Pat White as his qb? Please explain

29-22 before coming to UM and having 2 guys who would have never played for anyone else and the following year with a freshman qb

FatHobbit wrote:

OldDanTucker wrote:

FatHobbit wrote: Lloyd Carr's worst season was 7-5. In 13 years, he won one national title and five big ten titles. There's no way UM is this bad if he wasn't forced out. Mallet wouldn't have been a square peg being forced into a round hole, so you'd still have that for your offense. How anyone can blame Lloyd for this guy going 8-16 I'll never understand. (RR has done NOTHING at UM to deserve any kind of defense by the UM faithful.)

But, I'm with Writer. I think we should give RR a 10 year contract extension tomorrow. After all it's going to take him at least that long to get all his guys in there.

Carr also inherited a very good program and towards the end of his career slowly drove it into the ground. RR inherited a program that just lost a TON of talent, had no depth, and had just lost to appy state that season.

The last three years Carr went 7-5, 11-2 and 9-5. If that is slowly driving a program into the ground then what do you call what RR has done the last two years? (I feel like I've had this conversation with you before...)

Last year everyone was all about how RR always starts out slow but then improves dramatically the second year. (9-3 seems to be the number I remember everyone talking about.) What happened to that? Is 5-7 really an acceptable improvement in the second year?

Carr also put all of his egg's in the basket for the 07-08 (no we have never had any conversation before that I am aware of). Like I said in my original post IMO you cannot blame RR for the 08-09 season very few coaches could have done much better with that team. So imo 5-7 is not acceptable for last season but I also understand its a process to build this program back up. Also anyone predicting 9-3 last year was crazy, they were suppose to go from 3-9 to 9-3 because they got a couple more FRESHMAN that fit the system? No, I expected 7 wins last year at best.

OldDanTucker wrote:

insuranceguy wrote: So if he does not NEED a running qb in his system, then why is he 37-38 without Pat White as his qb? Please explain

29-22 before coming to UM and having 2 guys who would have never played for anyone else and the following year with a freshman qb

So 29-22 is acceptable No way Not At Michigan Lloyd was fired for that and was in the Big Ten which is much tougher than the Big East. Your making no sense what so ever. He has no track record of being a winner at high level at all. Lloyd won a NC and was one win away from being in another and Lloyds last game was a win over Florida and Tim Tebow. Come on. RR is turning a proud and tradition rich program into an average program period. All the signs are there? But if you are so adament about defending him then tell me one coach who came to a great program that was in the top 10 most of the time and had the two years that RR had but then ended up turning it around. I cant think of one myself.

insuranceguy wrote:

OldDanTucker wrote:

insuranceguy wrote: So if he does not NEED a running qb in his system, then why is he 37-38 without Pat White as his qb? Please explain

29-22 before coming to UM and having 2 guys who would have never played for anyone else and the following year with a freshman qb

So 29-22 is acceptable No way Not At Michigan Lloyd was fired for that and was in the Big Ten which is much tougher than the Big East. Your making no sense what so ever. He has no track record of being a winner at high level at all. Lloyd won a NC and was one win away from being in another and Lloyds last game was a win over Florida and Tim Tebow. Come on. RR is turning a proud and tradition rich program into an average program period. All the signs are there? But if you are so adament about defending him then tell me one coach who came to a great program that was in the top 10 most of the time and had the two years that RR had but then ended up turning it around. I cant think of one myself.

No 29-22 is not acceptable at UM you are right about that. I am not saying RR is the answer but we need to at least give the man a chance. He has had 1 season to get his own recruits onto the field. You need to get off the whole LLoyd Carr thing, just go back and look at his last couple of recruting classes and tell me that he left this program with anything. People want to defend LLoyd Carr because he won a NC over a decade ago but seem to forget that he couldn't win against appy state with guys like Chad Henne, Mike Hart, Mario Manningham, Adrian Arrington, Jake Long.

This is RR's put up or pack up year.

No less than 7 wins should be acceptable.