No doubt we're looking like the worst team in the NFL now, but It's pretty disingenuous to pretend you had a crystal ball 6-7 weeks ago lol. No one could have predicted Britt would be as bad as he is. He's never been close to this level his entire career. No one would predict devalve, who once was sure handed, can't catch the ball anymore. No one would predict with the line acquisitions that they'd play as poorly as they have. We've trended down, not up. We weren't bad week one against a better team. We were doing things well in camp. So don't get righteous now after 4 weeks lol. This team has been pathetic. Kizer isn't immune from it...hes been really bad at times.. but its not all on him. The problem is we're not changing anything. We're not adjusting to mask our weaknesses. We're not helping a rookie out who clearly struggles with pulling the trigger. We're not giving him quick slants and rolling him out to 1 receiver. We're insisting on running 20-30 yard routes and making him read 4 options... and half the time hes too slow on it and the other half we drop the passes. I'm putting this entirely on Hue. He knows our issues. He's not doing anything about it. And its only gotten worse on every function. We drop more passes every week. We run less. Kizer is even more tirgger shy than he was the previous week and the previous week. This is squarely on Hue.

vball10set;1874356 wrote:lol--everybody always wants what they don't have...gotta love that greener grass

People like you want kizer to succeed because he has ties to Toledo. I get it. But don’t let that cloud your judgment of him as a QB.

This isn’t a “people want what they don’t have” this is “we continue to pass on QBs that turn out to be good while we draft late round guys that don’t pan out.”

I’m all for giving kizer the rest of the year to improve. And I’m sure he will since he’s a smart guy with a good head on his shoulders. But you can’t be an inaccurate, successful NFL QB. Unless he’s able to fix that, an issue he’s always had and the reason he wasn’t a top QB target in the draft, then I can’t see him being any more than a solid backup QB.

kizer permanente;1874360 wrote:No doubt we're looking like the worst team in the NFL now, but It's pretty disingenuous to pretend you had a crystal ball 6-7 weeks ago lol. No one could have predicted Britt would be as bad as he is. He's never been close to this level his entire career. No one would predict devalve, who once was sure handed, can't catch the ball anymore. No one would predict with the line acquisitions that they'd play as poorly as they have. We've trended down, not up. We weren't bad week one against a better team. We were doing things well in camp. So don't get righteous now after 4 weeks lol. This team has been pathetic. Kizer isn't immune from it...hes been really bad at times.. but its not all on him. The problem is we're not changing anything. We're not adjusting to mask our weaknesses. We're not helping a rookie out who clearly struggles with pulling the trigger. We're not giving him quick slants and rolling him out to 1 receiver. We're insisting on running 20-30 yard routes and making him read 4 options... and half the time hes too slow on it and the other half we drop the passes. I'm putting this entirely on Hue. He knows our issues. He's not doing anything about it. And its only gotten worse on every function. We drop more passes every week. We run less. Kizer is even more tirgger shy than he was the previous week and the previous week. This is squarely on Hue.

No, it's really not. This was a returning 1 win team devoid of talent, that was a blocked FG away from going winless. This is why I made the male romper bet with my friend at 3.5 games. It's still early and we can see improvement from this team further into the season, but predicting anything beyond 4 games was a pipe dream at best.

SportsAndLady;1874335 wrote:It’s not just one game. You can watch him play and see that he has qualities you want in an nfl qb. We would all kill to have him or trubisky or any other of the dozen QBs that we passed on over the years to instead draft a lineman or a safety or a WR that isn’t making our team a .01% better.

Time will tell (lol), but my money is on he won't be a good NFL QB, especially when film is on him. NFL fans are fickle as fuck. Week 1 we had people here talking about how the Texans might be the worst team in the league lol.

like_that;1874388 wrote:No, it's really not. This was a returning 1 win team devoid of talent, that was a blocked FG away from going winless. This is why I made the male romper bet with my friend at 3.5 games. It's still early and we can see improvement from this team further into the season, but predicting anything beyond 4 games was a pipe dream at best.

Also the same team that would've likely beaten the Rats, Fins, Redskins, Steelers (week 17) & Jets if they had more talent last year. There WAS reason for optimism....especially with the schedule.

like_that;1874388 wrote:No, it's really not. This was a returning 1 win team devoid of talent, that was a blocked FG away from going winless. This is why I made the male romper bet with my friend at 3.5 games. It's still early and we can see improvement from this team further into the season, but predicting anything beyond 4 games was a pipe dream at best.

That's fine but the point is we're playing worse than the 1 win team last year. And you can bullshit yourself if you want and pretend you saw that coming, and you saw Britt was bad as he was, and you saw Coleman getting hurt, and your saw our line being even worse despite adding a ton of cash there, but it's not true. What they're doing defies logic, so forgive if I say you're full of shit if you saw Cleveland playing like this. I don't buy it.

like_that;1874389 wrote:Time will tell (lol), but my money is on he won't be a good NFL QB, especially when film is on him. NFL fans are fickle as fuck. Week 1 we had people here talking about how the Texans might be the worst team in the league lol.

No doubt. NFL is a crazy reactionary league. I don’t know who said Houston would be really bad, that’s just stupid. They have talent all over the place. They played tom savage and looked awful, no surprise there.

All I’m doing is guessing. Just like everyone else. My guess is we’ll regret passing on Watson.

kizer permanente;1874392 wrote:That's fine but the point is we're playing worse than the 1 win team last year. And you can bullshit yourself if you want and pretend you saw that coming, and you saw Britt was bad as he was, and you saw Coleman getting hurt, and your saw our line being even worse despite adding a ton of cash there, but it's not true. What they're doing defies logic, so forgive if I say you're full of shit if you saw Cleveland playing like this. I don't buy it.

I do have to agree with this. Nobody had a crystal ball saying this team would look worse than it did last year. With the upgraded O-Line and the addition of a few key defensive pieces (projection of Garrett being a stud, full year of Jamie Collins in this system) I think most would've thought they would've had a win or two (with this schedule) or at least look like they belong on an NFL field. They've done neither of these things. I don't think anyone was thinking "playoffs" but nobody was thinking they'd look worse than the 1999 team. To me, it says a huge amount of blame has to be put on the coaches with the front office (neglecting areas i.e. WR) close behind.

BR1986FB;1874391 wrote:Also the same team that would've likely beaten the Rats, Fins, Redskins, Steelers (week 17) & Jets if they had more talent last year. There WAS reason for optimism....especially with the schedule.

Bad teams don't make the plays to win close games and the Browns did nothing last year that made me believe they would make those plays this year. A lot of NFL games are close and come down to making a play or two that changes the entire outcome of a game. Also, the steelers in week 17 last year was their 2nd string lol. That game gave me even less confidence.

SQ;1874392 wrote:That's fine but the point is we're playing worse than the 1 win team last year. And you can bullshit yourself if you want and pretend you saw that coming, and you saw Britt was bad as he was, and you saw Coleman getting hurt, and your saw our line being even worse despite adding a ton of cash there, but it's not true. What they're doing defies logic, so forgive if I say you're full of shit if you saw Cleveland playing like this. I don't buy it.

The line is the only thing that somewhat surprises me. I knew britt was trash, I could see Coleman getting hurt since he already has a history of it, and I am not shocked that Hue hasn't changed his play calling. I hoped Hue would have been smarter with his play calling, but apparently he isn't. Not to mention our defense was terrible last year, and somehow we thought adding a few rookies was going to change that?

You can call bullshit all you want, but I wouldn't have taken the under on 3.5 wins if I thought this team could do better.

like_that;1874401 wrote: You can call bullshit all you want, but I wouldn't have taken the under on 3.5 wins if I thought this team could do better.

You might be the exception here. Most thought they were trending in a positive direction.

BR1986FB;1874408 wrote:You might be the exception here. Most thought they were trending in a positive direction.

I don't think they aren't trending in a positive direction, but I think it's going to take a lot longer than a lot of you think. Last year was the beginning of a full reboot. This team needs so much talent and one draft class isn't going to make that much of a change.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/73smjq/my_thoughts_on_the_offense_after_4_games/?st=J8AACOXI&sh=84cbcdbbhttps://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/73smjq/my_thoughts_on_the_offense_after_4_games/?st=J8AACOXI&sh=84cbcdbb

Solid read

Britt in July " “He’s grown each day. From OTAs I can tell he is a different person. I actually asked him yesterday, ‘has the offense slowed down?’ and he said, ‘Yes.’ I can tell he’s looking at certain things, he’s seeing the defense before the snap count and once he lines up he knows there’s certain things he has to do. He’s going to be one of the great ones,"

Britt in October "lol jk i can't catch anymore"

kizer permanente;1874421 wrote:Britt in July " “He’s grown each day. From OTAs I can tell he is a different person. I actually asked him yesterday, ‘has the offense slowed down?’ and he said, ‘Yes.’ I can tell he’s looking at certain things, he’s seeing the defense before the snap count and once he lines up he knows there’s certain things he has to do. He’s going to be one of the great ones,"

Britt in October "lol jk i can't catch anymore"

It's like we have never seen this story before...

Commander of Awesome;1874420 wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/73smjq/my_thoughts_on_the_offense_after_4_games/?st=J8AACOXI&sh=84cbcdbbhttps://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/73smjq/my_thoughts_on_the_offense_after_4_games/?st=J8AACOXI&sh=84cbcdbb

Solid read

The part about "what should we do going forward" where he mentions starting Hogan against the Jets, I was wondering right after yesterdays game. Hue is going to likely have to pull a few wins out of his ass or he's gone. Kizer has the best athletic tools but Hogan might give them the best chance to pull out a game or two. What the guy said about throwing Kizer into the fire and hope something sticks makes sense.

BR1986FB;1874431 wrote:The part about "what should we do going forward" where he mentions starting Hogan against the Jets, I was wondering right after yesterdays game. Hue is going to likely have to pull a few wins out of his ass or he's gone. Kizer has the best athletic tools but Hogan might give them the best chance to pull out a game or two. What the guy said about throwing Kizer into the fire and hope something sticks makes sense.

Yea will be interesting to see which way they go. I'm not sure which way I'm leaning, continue to throw Kizer to the wolves and see what he's made of, or start a QB that doesn't have the processing speed of a 1983 personal computer.

SportsAndLady;1874384 wrote:People like you want kizer to succeed because he has ties to Toledo. I get it. But don’t let that cloud your judgment of him as a QB.

This isn’t a &#8220eople want what they don’t have” this is “we continue to pass on QBs that turn out to be good while we draft late round guys that don’t pan out.”

I’m all for giving kizer the rest of the year to improve. And I’m sure he will since he’s a smart guy with a good head on his shoulders. But you can’t be an inaccurate, successful NFL QB. Unless he’s able to fix that, an issue he’s always had and the reason he wasn’t a top QB target in the draft, then I can’t see him being any more than a solid backup QB.

I completely agree, and I know you want him to succeed as much as I do, Toledo ties or not. My point is that it's easy looking at a rookie who's having success elsewhere and saying "man, I wish we would've drafted him", but truth be told, chances are they wouldn't have been successful here. Who's to say if Kizer was in Houston he wouldn't be enjoying the same success?

Along those lines, I don't think Hue Jackson is a very good head coach...jmo

vball10set;1874462 wrote:I completely agree, and I know you want him to succeed as much as I do, Toledo ties or not. My point is that it's easy looking at a rookie who's having success elsewhere and saying "man, I wish we would've drafted him", but truth be told, chances are they wouldn't have been successful here. Who's to say if Kizer was in Houston he wouldn't be enjoying the same success?

Along those lines, I don't think Hue Jackson is a very good head coach...jmo

I like the guy, and I'm not advocating firing him, but I no longer believe this to be true. The guy is a stubborn mule.

Commander of Awesome;1874467 wrote:I like the guy, and I'm not advocating firing him, but I no longer believe this to be true. The guy is a stubborn mule.

Agreed. I have no clue whether Kizer can actually be really good but Hue's offense is doing him no favors. No running game along with all of these down the field pass routes aren't helping his success. Granted, Kessler has a noodle arm but at least Hue set him up to be successful, as the article you posted states.

BR1986FB;1874482 wrote:Agreed. I have no clue whether Kizer can actually be really good but Hue's offense is doing him no favors. No running game along with all of these down the field pass routes aren't helping his success. Granted, Kessler has a noodle arm but at least Hue set him up to be successful, as the article you posted states.

Yep, the definition of a "good HC". Scheme to your talent, not the other way around.

vball10set;1874462 wrote:

Along those lines, I don't think Hue Jackson is a very good head coach...jmo

Commander of Awesome;1874467 wrote:I like the guy, and I'm not advocating firing him, but I no longer believe this to be true. The guy is a stubborn mule.

You no longer believe what to be true--that he isn't a good head coach? I'm confused

BR1986FB;1874482 wrote:Agreed. I have no clue whether Kizer can actually be really good but Hue's offense is doing him no favors. No running game along with all of these down the field pass routes aren't helping his success. Granted, Kessler has a noodle arm but at least Hue set him up to be successful, as the article you posted states.

Commander of Awesome;1874489 wrote:Yep, the definition of a "good HC". Scheme to your talent, not the other way around.

exactly

vball10set;1874490 wrote:You no longer believe what to be true--that he isn't a good head coach? I'm confused

Correct. I dont care how bad your team is, you don't start out 1-19 and get to call yourself a good coach. You don't get start out as a playcaller with an offense that is bottom of the league in every category and call yourself a good playcaller/offensive mind. He may be a good guy, that players like playing for, but he's not a good HC. Not by any measure.

Commander of Awesome;1874514 wrote:Correct. I dont care how bad your team is, you don't start out 1-19 and get to call yourself a good coach. You don't get start out as a playcaller with an offense that is bottom of the league in every category and call yourself a good playcaller/offensive mind. He may be a good guy, that players like playing for, but he's not a good HC. Not by any measure.

I think this could be part of his issue/down fall. How many head coaches, besides Sean Payton, have been successful HC's while also calling the offensive plays? He may need to just concentrate on being a "good" HC and maybe pass the play calling off to Saunders?

BR1986FB;1874523 wrote:I think this could be part of his issue/down fall. How many head coaches, besides Sean Payton, have been successful HC's while also calling the offensive plays? He may need to just concentrate on being a "good" HC and maybe pass the play calling off to Saunders?

Hell, I'd take Pete from Row 47 seat G over Hue. Least he could call a fucking run play.