Do you mean who's keeping them in check? I'd hope the board would have some power along with the Super. Now, if all levels of principals, super, and board are crummy...then you're in trouble. That's when the state steps in (we had a school district nearby that had to have state come and run things and scale back a lot of things...funding wise)

ernest_t_bass;1853008 wrote:What about bad admin?

Benny The Jet;1853006 wrote:I see bad teachers just coasting because once they get in, they're pretty much untouchable thanks to the union. I don't think it should be that way. Do your job well, and keep it. Do you job poorly, and lose it. Pretty simple to me.

I disagree with this.....

In the district that I live, and that my wife has taught for 25 years, she has seen sub-standard teachers not have their contract renewed. They were not getting the job done, were told what their deficiencies were and what they needed to do to correct the issues. They did not, and were non-renewed for the next year. It can be done.....it is a hard process, probably harder than it should be, but can be done. You need a principal and district administrators with the stones to do it.

Also, on the subject of tenure...I do not believe it exists, at least, not in the 5 central Ohio districts that those educators in my family have taught in. Contracts for teacher are generally one year at a time and can be renewed or non-renewed by the district.

wkfan;1853023 wrote:I disagree with this.....

In the district that I live, and that my wife has taught for 25 years, she has seen sub-standard teachers not have their contract renewed. They were not getting the job done, were told what their deficiencies were and what they needed to do to correct the issues. They did not, and were non-renewed for the next year. It can be done.....it is a hard process, probably harder than it should be, but can be done. You need a principal and district administrators with the stones to do it.

Also, on the subject of tenure...I do not believe it exists, at least, not in the 5 central Ohio districts that those educators in my family have taught in. Contracts for teacher are generally one year at a time and can be renewed or non-renewed by the district.

Sounds great. I've yet to see it unfortunately in my district.

Benny The Jet;1853015 wrote:I'd agree with that for the most part. Although, the benefits and retirement packages have been decreasing since I've begun teaching, they're still really good and better than most, I won't complain about it.

I was talking more about the general public sector (i.e. not teachers, cops, firefighters, etc). Used to be they were paid like 75-80% of the private sector equivalents, but made up for it with much more generous pension and healthcare retirement benefits. But these days, salaries are pretty much on par while the retirement benefits are still quite generous.

gut;1853030 wrote:I was talking more about the general public sector (i.e. not teachers, cops, firefighters, etc). Used to be they were paid like 75-80% of the private sector equivalents, but made up for it with much more generous pension and healthcare retirement benefits. But these days, salaries are pretty much on par while the retirement benefits are still quite generous.

It depends on the profession. The Trump administration just came out with a report and while public-sector workers without college degrees, etc. make off way better than private sector workers without college degrees in similar jobs (e.g. admin staff) it's not really the case with professionals, etc.

My understanding of the public sector leave per one of the OCSEA contracts I've seen is that for every pay check, rather than pay you, the state sets aside X amount of dollars for X amount of hours of Sick Time - like 3 hours or something and they can cash it out at the end of the year, etc. So really it's like a $30.00 per hour employee actually makes $32.00 or so per hour with a small amount of it in deferred and incentive-based compensation.

And, for my money, given how hard it is for many public employees to get fired and a lack of incentive based compensation generally - seems to me a carrot that encourages public employees to maybe lean toward going to work if they've got the sniffles is not the WORST thing in the world when it comes to public employment.

I suppose it is a concern though if the state is not accounting for the potential in the future that a employee just starts coasting and using all the banked sick time if the state has not budgeted for the potential need to hire a temp, etc.???

As an aside - issues like this just shows you horribly wrong Karl Marx was. The laboring masses fighting for scraps feel no solidarity across the working class with other laborers who have the cushy benefits, etc.

Fab4Runner;1852979 wrote:I've been at my job for seven years, and I have 18 personal days per year. If/when I have a baby, I will use those, and then the rest of my maternity leave will be unpaid. It's going to be super awesome.

Wow. I wonder how standard that is. I'm in the private sector and our employees get six weeks paid leave, and then are eligible for six weeks short term disability as well (12 weeks total.) Non-berthing guardians get 4 weeks of paid leave as well.

Fab4Runner;1852979 wrote:I've been at my job for seven years, and I have 18 personal days per year. If/when I have a baby, I will use those, and then the rest of my maternity leave will be unpaid. It's going to be super awesome.

Can you save up those days, or are they gone at the end of each year?

BoatShoes;1853033 wrote:It depends on the profession. The Trump administration just came out with a report and while public-sector workers without college degrees, etc. make off way better than private sector workers without college degrees in similar jobs (e.g. admin staff) it's not really the case with professionals, etc.

You probably don't really come out ahead in the private sector until lower management in F500, or middle management in smaller companies when you start making a fair bit more. Of course, a lot of them have graduate degrees and you're talking a relatively small percentage of people. For most people, especially staff (and union jobs), you'd probably come out ahead in the public sector.

When you're talking teachers, firefighters, etc....there really isn't an equivalent private sector job of any significance. I think teachers at, say, Catholic high schools generally don't fair as well as their counterparts in public schools.

But I'm talking, say, staff accountant in industry. That person will probably do better, overall, in the public sector. Sure, if you work for one of the Big 4 or rise through the ranks in a corporation, you'll do better. But we're talking, I don't know, maybe 10% of such people.

Al Bundy;1853037 wrote:Can you save up those days, or are they gone at the end of each year?

They are gone each year.

Zoltan;1853036 wrote:Wow. I wonder how standard that is. I'm in the private sector and our employees get six weeks paid leave, and then are eligible for six weeks short term disability as well (12 weeks total.) Non-berthing guardians get 4 weeks of paid leave as well.

That's a pretty good benefit...you'll generally only find that level at SOME larger middle market firms and F1000's. Unpaid leave is far more common. I would say any benefit (beyond a few days personal leave) for non-berthing guardians is rare.

Spock;1852952 wrote:Most teachers sick days are accumulated monthly. When you first start you have zero. You usually get 1.5 days a month. You build up to 200+ by never using them. The OP falls short of actually praising most teachers for This.

I'd feel really horrible about my lot in life if I was encouraging people to actually praise me for simply showing up at my job instead of using a bunch of sick days.

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/taxpayers-hook-for-444m-unused-state-worker-leave/iRnkFiJRWPvX7Thpngj7LM/

The payouts for vacation leave are often paid at 100 percent of the employee’s wages at retirement. Sick leave is paid out at 50 to 55 percent of their base wage.